Upgrading the Defense

[patsinthesnow]

So let me get this straight, your FINE with Mccourty at CB, but want Arrington as the 4th/5th guy, are you nuts??? Did you see Arrington inthe SB, sure he's no #1, but a good #2 and a great #3.

Ron Brace can't hold Loves Jock, don't know what you see there.

Cunningham is toast.

Why can't Moore develop? He only makes great plays every game when he only gets 30 snaps.


Draft bias? Calling Arrington a ST CB is absurd and counting on Mccourty after this year as well.

Just trying to be fair here Andy to Arrington

 

[IllegalContact]

the pats need to become more athletic on the outside.......

whetehr it is 3-4 DE, 4-3 DE, or 3-4 OLB, they suck each way

 

[warx]

Love. He should not be more than a backup. I was far from impressed with his play this year.

Love was the most improved D-lineman of the year according to the NFL films guys, I for one was impressed with how he came along this year.


As for the secondary, speed seemed to be McCourty's big issue, but he does have good ball skills and is an excellent tackler, so rotating between safety and corner could be a real alternative.
The secondary looked a lot more comfortable with Chung back there, he rocked Nicks in the SB and looks good doing it all back there.

I do think if we are able to get better consistent pressure with our front then our DBs will looks better anyway, but we need some upgrades at CB.
It's hard to tell if Ras-I is the man for the job as we didn't get to see much of him last year.

I would prefer not to see Ihedibo out there next season for us either, I'd prefer to have either a young guy from the draft or undrafted there with a chance to progress or a veteran guy like Sanders to help mentor the young guys.

 

[patsderoer]

Why can't Moore develop? He only makes great plays every game when he only gets 30 snaps.

Moore gave up like 60 yards on that final Giant drive. First 2 Eli passes were completed on him. Was lucky that the Ravens receiver was careless with the ball, otherwise he would have given up the winning TD vs Ravens. He's far from being a lockdown defender.

 

[everlong]

Arrington.

All of our pass D struggles the last 2 years have helped hide the fact that Arrignton is simply overmatched out there. He is smart and gets plays that he is schemed into, but he is not nearly physical enough and is below average in coverage skills. His role as the 4th/5th corner who plays all special teams is where he really belongs. Not a terrible liability as a nickel if necessary.

In watching the SB I thought Aarington played really well and was very physical with Cruz. That's where Aarington needs to play, in the slot on smaller receivers. I think he could be more than solid in that role. As an outisde corner he can play zone and the occasional man to man if the match is correct but over all he shouldn't be starting in that role. I think Bill likes him because he works hard and gets the concepts the defense is trying to deploy but he doesn't have the physical skills to be a lock down corner.

 

[bucky]

AJ,

I have to say - nice job. I agree with almost every single one of your player evaluations - which is not always the case.

The one guy I want to mention is Mike Anderson. I think he has good potential as a part-time 34 rush OLB and has played so this year. His 1 weakness is setting the edge, but BB can compensate for that if necessary. He's got a lot of strengths as well - like pursuing plays away from him and rushing the passer. I think he's a solid #3 OLB and nickel DE.

With regard to 34 vs. 43, I think BB clearly prefers a 34, but we saw this year (as well as in 2001) that he's willing to adapt the alignment to fit his players' strengths. He went after Peppers 2 years ago and I'm sure he would have switched to 43 had Peppers come here. With Mario Williams available this year, it could be a similar possibility.

 

[celticboy04]

AJ,

I have to say - nice job. I agree with almost every single one of your player evaluations - which is not always the case.

The one guy I want to mention is Mike Anderson. I think he has good potential as a part-time 34 rush OLB and has played so this year. His 1 weakness is setting the edge, but BB can compensate for that if necessary. He's got a lot of strengths as well - like pursuing plays away from him and rushing the passer. I think he's a solid #3 OLB and nickel DE.

With regard to 34 vs. 43, I think BB clearly prefers a 34, but we saw this year (as well as in 2001) that he's willing to adapt the alignment to fit his players' strengths. He went after Peppers 2 years ago and I'm sure he would have switched to 43 had Peppers come here. With Mario Williams available this year, it could be a similar possibility.

Greetings,
One thing I noticed by looking at the free agent list is many of the pass rushers available come from 4-3 schemes. Players such as Cliff Avril, Jeremy Mincey, John Abrahm, Andre Carter and Robert Mathis (who is more built like a 3-4 OLB). So if the Patriots go after to the best pass rushers available in free agency I expect to stay in the "4-3". I put quotes around it because Bill likes to play both all on one play. 4-3 on one side (Carter's side) and 3-4 on the other(Deaderick).

Celticboy04

 

[State]

Richard Marshall, former Fresno State cornerback (Pat Hill former coach), is available in the unrestricted free agent market. Richard Marshall played both cornerback and free safety for the Arizona Cardinals this year.

Thanks for the info, bro.

He's got great talent and is one of those players who could translate very well with the Patriots.

He's an improvement over every cover guy they have except for Sterling Moore.

All I's know is Antwaun Molden has got to go.

The Phins have hired a very smart west coast offense guy in Joe Philbin, so we'd better improve this defense if we want to win the AFC EAst next year.
West coast offense - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com

 

[eom]

34 is the preferred defense. There really isnt much of a personell difference.
The 3 DL are either over the T-C-T or T-G-G. and the 3 LBs adjusted accordingly, with the DE/OLB outside the T in either case.
But the 34 is more versatile. It doesn't telegraph the 4th rusher. It is stronger vs the run because you have an OLB who is more mobile playing contain instead of a less mobile DE.

BTW, where did you get your #s? I was under the impression we played more than 50% nickel/dime.
Are you saying 52% 4 man line including nickel/dime or 52% 43.
Can you link the numbers?

I was under the impression they played more base even fronts when haynesworth was here, and transitioned back to odd fronts post-haynesworth, so I'm not sure if season stats will tell you much.
maybe I'll sift through reiss's columns later.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

the pats need to become more athletic on the outside.......

whetehr it is 3-4 DE, 4-3 DE, or 3-4 OLB, they suck each way

Bingo! This is what I have been talking about on the draft site.

No offense to anybody but Deaderick and Love are backups and Brace is unknown because we have not seen much of him.

We start upgrading the D line by bringing to two stud DE's that are future playmakers - Brockers (6'6" and 305 LBS) of LSU and Cox (6'4" and 300 LBS) of Miss State. We trade #31 and #48 to go get Brockers at #16. We take Cox at #31.

Next we add OLB Curry (6'3" and 250 LBS) of Marshall at OLB (provided he runs well at the combine) and exploiting the edges of our defense just got very difficult.

Plus once Brockers learns the 5 technique and gets some experience, he will command constant Seymour like double teams from the opposing offense which will open up more of the playbook to BB for exotic blitzes and coverages.

Also both Cox and Brockers are flexible enough to excel inside when we switch to a 4-3 look.

It all starts up front! For all the best defenses in the NFL, it all starts upfront.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

So let me get this straight, your FINE with Mccourty at CB, but want Arrington as the 4th/5th guy, are you nuts??? Did you see Arrington inthe SB, sure he's no #1, but a good #2 and a great #3.

In my mind Arrington works best as the slot CB. He sees the field well, recognizes routes and reads the QB eyes.

Also in my mind our DB's were drafted or signed because they excel in zone coverages, once we flipped to man coverage,were had a bunch or round pegs in square holes.

In man coverage McCourty a pure zone CB can excel at the FS position because he can roam.

So the first thing we need to do is fix the D line (more size and athleticism); then BB can settle on defensive backfields alignments and coverages.

 

[eom]

We start upgrading the D line by bringing to two stud DE's that are future playmakers - Brockers (6'6" and 305 LBS) of LSU and Cox (6'4" and 300 LBS) of Miss State. We trade #31 and #48 to go get Brockers at #16. We take Cox at #31.

I love that plan -- I wonder if bill could pull it off.
just imagine the crying after the draft!

 

[RobertWeathers]

In my mind Arrington works best as the slot CB. He sees the field well, recognizes routes and reads the QB eyes.

Also in my mind our DB's were drafted or signed because they excel in zone coverages, once we flipped to man coverage,were had a bunch or round pegs in square holes.

In man coverage McCourty a pure zone CB can excel at the FS position because he can roam.

So the first thing we need to do is fix the D line (more size and athleticism); then BB can settle on defensive backfields alignments and coverages.

Pretty spot-on post. Arrington excelled vs Cruz in the SB and its pretty clear that DMC is a pretty good FS who is learning OTJ.

Athleticism at CB and more playmakers on the line and at OLB are needed.

 

[PatsSox363804]

Bingo! This is what I have been talking about on the draft site.

No offense to anybody but Deaderick and Love are backups and Brace is unknown because we have not seen much of him.

We start upgrading the D line by bringing to two stud DE's that are future playmakers - Brockers (6'6" and 305 LBS) of LSU and Cox (6'4" and 300 LBS) of Miss State. We trade #31 and #48 to go get Brockers at #16. We take Cox at #31.

Next we add OLB Curry (6'3" and 250 LBS) of Marshall at OLB (provided he runs well at the combine) and exploiting the edges of our defense just got very difficult.

Plus once Brockers learns the 5 technique and gets some experience, he will command constant Seymour like double teams from the opposing offense which will open up more of the playbook to BB for exotic blitzes and coverages.

Also both Cox and Brockers are flexible enough to excel inside when we switch to a 4-3 look.

It all starts up front! For all the best defenses in the NFL, it all starts upfront.

love the idea and completely agree with you that it starts up front but do any mocks have Brockers dropping far enough to even consider it? I think Walter football has him going 9th right now.

 

[PatsSox363804]

Pretty spot-on post. Arrington excelled vs Cruz in the SB and its pretty clear that DMC is a pretty good FS who is learning OTJ.

Athleticism at CB and more playmakers on the line and at OLB are needed.

Avril is a guy I hope we give serious consideration to as an olb which fills that need. At corner we sort of have to hope dowling can contribute something and McCourty can rebound if we get some decent safety help.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Bingo! This is what I have been talking about on the draft site.

No offense to anybody but Deaderick and Love are backups and Brace is unknown because we have not seen much of him.

We start upgrading the D line by bringing to two stud DE's that are future playmakers - Brockers (6'6" and 305 LBS) of LSU and Cox (6'4" and 300 LBS) of Miss State. We trade #31 and #48 to go get Brockers at #16. We take Cox at #31.

Next we add OLB Curry (6'3" and 250 LBS) of Marshall at OLB (provided he runs well at the combine) and exploiting the edges of our defense just got very difficult.

Plus once Brockers learns the 5 technique and gets some experience, he will command constant Seymour like double teams from the opposing offense which will open up more of the playbook to BB for exotic blitzes and coverages.

Also both Cox and Brockers are flexible enough to excel inside when we switch to a 4-3 look.

It all starts up front! For all the best defenses in the NFL, it all starts upfront.

Agree about the defensive front. I still am left shaking my head that we didn't come away from last years draft without any help there. BB is a helluva lot smarter than us idiots on a message board. But, the opportunity was there. Could have traded up for JJ Watt. Could have also traded up for Ryan Kerrigan. We didn't. We have the extra picks now. But, still have the same needs. I'd be happy with a de, olb and db. Maybe address a couple of needs thru free agency. Kendal Langford and Dashon Goldson

 

[RobertWeathers]

Avril is a guy I hope we give serious consideration to as an olb which fills that need. At corner we sort of have to hope dowling can contribute something and McCourty can rebound if we get some decent safety help.

He is certainly a player trending upward and is young. The quandary with him is can he play a little OLB and play the run. If he can, pay the man.

I guess if I had the choice I'd grab Mario Williams. IMO the key to a BB defense is a pass rush that comes from the D-line. Williams looked real good as a DE in the 3-4.

 

[reflexblue]

Agree about the defensive front. I still am left shaking my head that we didn't come away from last years draft without any help there. BB is a helluva lot smarter than us idiots on a message board. But, the opportunity was there. Could have traded up for JJ Watt. Could have also traded up for Ryan Kerrigan. We didn't. We have the extra picks now. But, still have the same needs. I'd be happy with a de, olb and db. Maybe address a couple of needs thru free agency. Kendal Langford and Dashon Goldson

Yes, YES, Gawd Damn it YES......Could have had a lot of players but passed, he seems to have a phobia when it comes to using high draft picks on the front seven. Oh he occasionally takes a player with a second or third, but mostly hes used these picks on DB's with questionable health and talent questions.

 

[patsderoer]

I too would take two stud DE in the first two rounds, but without giving up picks or moving up. DE Jared Crick and DE Jack Bequette. Two great pass rushers. Both have great size and strength.
Bequette led the SEC in sacks/game from DE position. 10 sacks, 5 FF in 10 games. Non stop motor. Very explosive from the line of scrimmage. No way I take Cox and his 4 sacks in 11 games over him.

scouting for Bequette 2012 NFL Draft Profile: Jake Bequette – DE – Arkansas | PackerChatters
You don’t find very many players who can play against the run and rush the passer as well as Jake does. He has Shawn Merriman explosion off the line when rushing the passer — except that it’s from a three point stance. His ability to stop the run is excellent and these two things combined make Jake one of the better defensive players coming out in this draft. He has as much talent as Ryan Kerrigan (DL Purdue), who the Redskins drafted at the #16 in the 1st round last year. The truth is Jake is quicker and more explosive off the line than Ryan and just as good against the run. When Jake lines up wide in pass rushing situations, his explosion and quickness into the backfield is unique and something a team using a 4-3 defense had better not be foolish enough to pass up at any point in the draft. He is a maniac on the field when rushing the passer and that’s why I call him Jake (The Maniac) Bequette. His explosion, strength and quickness off the line of scrimmage is remarkable to watch.

I see him as the next JJ Watt or Jared Allen. He certainly has the size, strength, explosiveness to be like JJ Watt or Allen.

Jared Crick was injured this year, but he put up great stats the years before. Hopefully Pats will not be deterred by the injury and take a chance with him, like they did with Gronk,

If these two pan out like JJ Watt and Brooks Reed did for the Texans, Pats defence will be massively improved compared with this year.

 

[UofApatsfan]

hope the experience is well learned by Chung going forward

What is Chung supposed to learn? When you're not playing your natural position, you get torched? Chung's not good in coverage, never has been good in coverage, and doesn't have the instincts to be the type who sits back, takes safe angles, and safely breaks up plays. He's a risk taker.

Hopefully Belichick learns from that experience that constantly shuffling the secondary around and never letting players settle at their natural position leads to trouble.

Meriweather being a free safety when he was drafted, then being moved to strong safety for a few years, then being moved back to free safety is a large reason why he never got better. You can only unlearn and relearn stuff so much.

Having players who can constantly shift between 3-4 OLB and 4-3 DE or DBs who can switch between safety and corner every play would be nice but there aren't very many players out there versatile enough to do that. IMO the biggest thing with the defense is getting some continuity.