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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by mgteich, Oct 24, 2010.

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  1. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't get it either. BB is always aggressive on 4th downs, and that choice paid off. Why take it as an indictment of Gostkowski? The expected value of a kick there was about 1.5 points, the expected value of going for it was higher.

    The real issue on teams right now is Ingram, who has suddenly lost it altogether. Reminds me of a golfer who misses a few putts then starts to overthink every 4-footer.
     
  2. buile

    buile PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No Jersey Selected

    Arg, this is true... one or two bad snaps a game... It's only a matter of time before that costs a game.
     
  3. Whatarunweareon...

    Whatarunweareon... Rookie

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    Arrington was the guy who extended and laid out from the kicker's left and he did tip the ball which I think kept it from hooking back in. A game saver.
     
  4. convertedpatsfan

    convertedpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    The golfer analogy is a good one. It's not a lack of talent or ability so much as a mental block that develops. Maybe there are some mechanics involved as well, I don't know. But just as Ghost struggled early on yet rounded into form, I have to think (and maybe this is wishful thinking) that Scott O'Brien can help Ingram turn it around.

    Ingram was really solid all last season so we know he can do the job. But I have no idea how to actually fix it.
     
  5. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    4th quarter onside kick....

    Due to CBS11 in Dallas pre-empting the game so their Moron of a weatherman could listen to himself talk, I missed this.

    I have to say, though, that it's surprising that the Pats weren't expecting this... Norv Turner had tried it earlier in the game, only to have Dane Fletcher make a damn good play. So, one would think that Scotty O'B would have his players be alert for it again. Kinda surprised that they were caught napping.
     
  6. Fencer

    Fencer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    Well, THAT is good news regarding his injury ...

    ... unless you just misidentified the player. :(
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2010
  7. Fencer

    Fencer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    Amen.

    However you frame it, we have an issue at LS.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2010
  8. convertedpatsfan

    convertedpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    Re: 4th quarter onside kick....

    No real good excuse here. They just blew it.
     
  9. Fencer

    Fencer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    Before we bash STs too too much:


    • Edelman did have a big return, which led to points
    • They kicked it away from Tate three times (twice onside), and two of those went well for us
    • Mesko made up for Ingram
    • That FG miss at the end was nice
    • Gost did make all his FGs
    A poor day on balance, but not an utter catastrophe.
     
  10. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: 4th quarter onside kick....

    What were BBs comments on it after the game?

    And if it was obvious (like SD lining up for the on-side kick) then it makes it even worse...
     
  11. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My memory may be off but I don't remember him struggling with snaps before.

    But he was definitely shakey today.
     
  12. GoWhalers

    GoWhalers On the Game Day Roster

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    Re: 4th quarter onside kick....

    It wasn't an obvious onside kick formation, and the kick was near-perfect in that it must have traveled about 10.5 yards (and also took a backwards bounce upon hitting the ground).

    A defense is always at a disadvantage against a well-coordinated offense, and in this case San Diego executed just about to perfection. Can't blame the Pats too much on this one, despite not liking the outcome of the play.
     
  13. jsull87

    jsull87 In the Starting Line-Up

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    hahaha if that's true that is awesome.

    But i think someone else said it was arrington which is a little more believable
     
  14. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Ingram made more then one bad snap. Mesko was a hero more than once.

     
  15. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    OK, I can't kick a 50 yard field goal with regularity in good conditions. Why is that relevant.

    The question is when should a field goal kicker be depended on to kick a field goal. What is the point at which we should expect him to be more than 50%. Another poster suggested 45 yards is a even money proposition for a top kicker. I disagreed. What do you say?

    BTW, we pay Gostkowski to be one of the 5 best field goal kickers on the planet.

    I have no dislike for Gostkowski. I strongly suggested his extension months before it happened, as others did. And yes, I know that Vinitieri also wasn't expected to kick from 50 yards.

    If Goskowski is money in the snow from 45 or less in the winter, I'm fine with that. However, I don't think that 50 yards in good weather is field goal that most of the top kickers can't be exdpected to make.


     
  16. Fencer

    Fencer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    One problem is that the rules and tactics keep changing to increase the penalties for a missed field goal. First there was the change in the spot. Then there were coaches realizing you could realistically run back a miss, something I think San Diego innovated.

    So the risk/reward on longer kicks is worse than it used to be.
     
  17. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Agreed..........


     
  18. BSR

    BSR In the Starting Line-Up

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    The percentage of picking up 1 yard is about 75% so it makes sense to go for it at that place on the field. They often do that there.
     
  19. SoonerPatriot

    SoonerPatriot In the Starting Line-Up

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    Meh...you can't be on your A game every week. There will be let downs.

    Also, specifically on Ghost he's made his last 8 or 9 including a game winner. I'll take it. :rolleyes:

    I was less than impressed with some of his kickoffs though.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2010
  20. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Is our percentage of getting 1 yard 75% against top defensive teams with a mediocre running back and no fullback?

    I don't disagree with going for it today or last year. I just wouldn't have run Green-Ellis up the middle.

     
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