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United States, Swaziland, and Papua New Guinea share at least one family value

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Feb 23, 2011.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think this is the kind of evidence that supports my contention that much of "family values" is mostly a sham, using those so-called values as a cover for pushing low taxes. Everything they support--outlawing abortion, rather than providing increased services to young mothers, cutting social programs rather than focusing on creating jobs and a skilled workforce, and preaching about "family values," rather than giving children a good start on life, just happensto also cost nothing.

    When I lived in socialist Sweden, new mothers would get 6 months off with pay, which could be used to give both parents 3 months off, or the mom or dad 6 months off.

    Report says US lags on paid parental leave policy - The Boston Globe

    “Despite its enthusiasm about ‘family values,’ the US is decades behind other countries in ensuring the well-being of working families,’’ said Janet Walsh, deputy director of the women’s rights division of Human Rights Watch. “Being an outlier is nothing to be proud of in a case like this.’’

    ...

    The report, “Failing its Families,’’ says at least 178 countries have national laws guaranteeing paid leave for new mothers, while the handful of exceptions include the United States, Swaziland, and Papua New Guinea. More than 50 nations, including most Western countries, also guarantee paid leave for new fathers.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2011
  2. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    The upshot of all those family friendly policies in Europe is that nobody bothers to have a family (E.U. avg. = 1.6 children per female).
     
  3. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    Who paid for it -- the citizens or their employers?
     
  4. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Thank god for Hispanics.

    If it wasn't for Hispanics, our birth rate would probably be like that of France.

    http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2011/tables/11s0083.pdf

    Or do you think if we offered maternity leave, our birthrate would be even higher? I'd love to hear your reasoning.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2011
  5. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I paid 60% in tax, and I wasn't even earning that much, but employers paid high taxes too. Plus, everything is quite expensive there: clothes, food, beers, etc.

    On the other hand, there was virtually no crime, homelessness, the waters were so clean in downtown Stockholm that people fished in them, doctors were free, pensions were guaranteed, and overall it was in many ways ideal.
     
  6. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The states with the 'best' families values policies (plus lot of abortions) are committing societal suicide. Great ideal for the culture of death.
     
  7. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    If it wasn't for Muslims, France would be like Italy!

    That was my point, that despite those policies, people still had few children. I am not sure about the idea that nobody gets maternity leave in the U.S. It may not be mandated by law, but plenty of companies offer it. People at my company use short-term disability.
     
  8. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    lol which states' values would you like to compare?

    and "culture of death" -- good stuff, as usual. Gotta love extremists who can't comprehend how much they don't know.
     
  9. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    Things are changing there now.

    [​IMG]

    The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S. | Mail Online
     
  10. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't think the intention of maternity leave is to increase population growth rates, but it's to help raise better kids. Many supports support the idea that the early months of a child are critical to its healthy development.

    While some companies offer some flexibility with regard to maternity leave, the vast majority do not. At any rate, thank goodness that the Democrats prevailed to pass the family leave act, which was certainly more family friendly than any of the big government laws the Republicans want to impose.

    U.S. Maternity Leave Benefits Are Still Dismal - Forbes.com
     
  11. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What would you call 50 million dead in the US and many more than that in Europe and Russia?

    The results of Patters socialist wonderland are cultures that are dying. Russia's population is estimated to ba half the current number within 40 years the birthrate among other European countries show much the same outcome. If all this cradle to grave stuff were so great you think people would want to have children and families. Instead they are choosing to breed themselves and their culture out of existence. What name would you assign to this behavior?
     
  12. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    If it's so much better, feel free to go back there anytime.
     
  13. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I never needed maternity leave, but perhaps you would have liked it when you had your first child? What's bad about a few months off with pay?
     
  14. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    What in Santa's name are you talking about? Where?
     
  15. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    I'll ask again: which states' values do you want to compare?

    Who are the 50 million dead?


    So birth rates are now an indication of a culture's strength? I guess you think want the United States to change its culture to be more like most 3rd world nations.

    Some of us actually love America, though.
     
  16. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    Well, somebody does have to pay for it (I know you're aware of that, ut it can't be glossed over).
     
  17. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    Another demonstration of the problem with you liberals. You think money just magically appears out of thin air. You think you can just give someone a couple months worth of free salary and no one has to pay for it.

    Meanwhile, in the real world, payroll is a number that businesses need to manage. If they have to give free money to anyone who has a child, it's going to take away from the rest of the work force. It's going to increase the cost of their products. It's going to have real effects.
     
  18. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    Sorry...missed this post.
    Problem is it has nothing to do with your earlier post. What states? What is your "culture of DEATH"?

    What name would you assign to people who refuse to breed themselves into starvation and environmental disaster? Just because other people insist on living in the pre-technology days, having 10 kids and worshiping invisible ghosts and dead animals doesn't make them right. Don't worry, 13...we won't allow "them" to over-run us. Our "Culture of Death" will still kick their "Culture of Death"'s azz.

    What a silly thing to worry about. Get some sleep.
     
  19. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    I think he means the ~50 million that have been aborted since Roe v. Wade.


    To some extent, yes. You should want to at least replace yourself, no? The future belongs to those who show up for it. What good will your strong culture do you if it disappears in a few generations? You don't need to have a Niger level (7.45) of birth rate to be at replacement (2.2). The EU is below replacement. No worries, though, as immigrants will be happy to take the place off their hands. Not sure that European cultures will survive though, given the lack of assimilation observed in most immigrant communities in the EU of late.
     
  20. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    I think so, too, but that would just lump him in with the crowd I described in an earlier post.


    Not surprisingly, you have a more interesting take on things than 13's notion that birthrates are somehow an indication of a culture's strength or desirability.

    I can only speak personally -- I have no interest in replacing myself, per se. If I wind up having kids, it will be because my wife and I want to have a family, and the # of kids we have will have nothing to do with replacing ourselves, I'm pretty sure. (Not sure whether you meant that literally, though.)
     

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