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United States Of America: A Republic or A Democracy?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by KDPPatsfan85, Aug 15, 2011.

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United States of America: Republic or Democracy?

  1. Republic

    5 vote(s)
    83.3%
  2. Democracy

    1 vote(s)
    16.7%
  1. KDPPatsfan85

    KDPPatsfan85 Rookie

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    #51 Jersey

    Now, many people dont know the difference between a Republic and a Democracy.


    Republic- a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them.


    Democracy-A system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.


    So, I want to know what everyone thinks, Is the United States a Republic or a Democracy?
  2. PatsFanInVa

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    From the definitions you're using, it would seem that republics can be democracies, and if they are, they are representative democracies. We do in fact live in a representative democracy. You can assert, using the definitions proffered that the United States must be a republic, because it fits one of the forking branches of that definition. It also fits the definition of a democracy.

    So this hoary old chestnut is pretty much a non-starter, as it always is. What exactly is the distinction you'd like to draw?

    Would you like to declare America a republic, then redefine the nature of that republic to do away with democratic election of Senators (for example) -- as Rick Perry has suggested?

    Why is this false distinction such a magnet for righties in general?

    I can't tell you how many times I've heard some moron trumpet, or seen some moron spew in type, that "America's not a democracy, it's a republic!" as if only a tenth of the population, those with the most property, should really be voting.

    Although truth be told, we're coming closer to plutocracy with each passing supreme court decision and Romney speech that redefine money as having free speech rights, and corporations to be people.

    PFnV
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2011
  3. PatsFanInVa

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    By the way, here are the reference.com definitions. Want to cite your source? If it's the same one you've made some interesting editing choices.

    Democracy | Define Democracy at Dictionary.com
    Republic | Define Republic at Dictionary.com

    de·moc·ra·cy
       /dɪˈmɒkrəsi/ Show Spelled[dih-mok-ruh-see]
    –noun, plural -cies.
    1.
    government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.
    2.
    a state having such a form of government: The United States and Canada are democracies.
    (& further enumerated definitions)

    re·pub·lic
       /rɪˈpʌblɪk/ Show Spelled[ri-puhb-lik]
    –noun
    1.
    a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them.
    2.
    any body of persons viewed as a commonwealth.
    (& further enumerated definitions)
  4. KDPPatsfan85

    KDPPatsfan85 Rookie

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    #51 Jersey

    Right now we are coming closer to Socialism. Our country is a republic and many people dont think that. recite the pledge of allegiance and you will find your answer. India is a democratic nation, the United States is a republic. Soon though, we wont be either with Obama in office!
  5. PatsFanInVa

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    Meh, went back and edited out the emperor and the electors, to be more on point.

    You don't think that the power of the United States rests in all the people, that we have (or should have) universal suffrage through our electoral institutions (among adults)?

    What exactly do you believe is undemocratic about America?

    Do you believe that only a sub-set of the populace is permitted to vote?

    Why does reference.com seem to think that the United States is a democracy? Precisely what feature, in your mind, determines it not to be a democracy?

    PFnV
  6. PatsFanInVa

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    A representative democracy is a republic. Don't be goofy.

    Just because the word's in a pledge doesn't mean "that's the answer! I am a scholar!"

    It means there's a lot of overlap in the terms.

    You can have a republic that restricts the franchise significantly enough that it's not democratic.

    In practice, it's very difficult to establish a democracy that's not a republic, because it would have to be a direct democracy ruling by plebescite. I'm not sure you can have one larger than the village level.

    PFnV
  7. KDPPatsfan85

    KDPPatsfan85 Rookie

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    #51 Jersey

    Simple:

    I Pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands, one nation, under god, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.
  8. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    Not sure when the pledge of allegiance became a binding referendum on forms of government, but if you really want to rely on it,

    don't tell Rick Perry that...


    funny stuff!
  9. DarrylS

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    I vote for Plutocracy... and unfortunately, that seems more true daily.

    Read yesterday that the Koch brothers are starting another war on public education.. the 5500 lobbyists who play the game in DC and spend billions promoting their special interests, congress who is made up of more than 50% millionaires confirms it.

    Corporations are people.. and Mitt Romney(but he has lovely hair) comments that "Corporations are People" resonates..
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2011
  10. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The United States is both a republic and a democracy, thus I can't answer your poll. I think the practical form of democracy in places with large populations is republican. That said, almost all democracies are imperfect. I'm not sure if there can be a perfect democracy.

    What socialism has to with it, I have no idea. Many of the nations of Europe are socialist democratic republics. India is a republic. Your misunderstanding about India, republic, socialism, and democracy perhaps explains your misunderstanding about Obama.
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2011
  11. PatsFanInVa

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    So KD, the operative "difference," where there is one, between a democracy and a republic, is that a republic much more commonly produces elected officials who are elected from a very narrow class of voters -- for example, all white males with property.

    Do you believe the United States is such a society? Do you believe that it should be, but that we've lost our way?

    Do you believe that the pledge of allegiance was written to warn us against extending the vote to additional citizens, and that citizenship should be restricted to a very narrow subset of those living in a country?

    We even refer to Athens as a democracy, where slaves and women were both excluded from voting.

    Should we be more restrictive than Athens in our electoral practices?

    PFnV
  12. PatsFanInVa

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    I love the OP's contention that "a lot of people don't know the difference," followed up by the assertion that the difference is that one is in a "magic formula" pledge we learned in first grade.

    It's like saying "A lot of people don't understand the difference between exploding and streaking chemically propelled projectiles and rockets' red glare" and then saying "the rockets' red glare is in the star-spangled banner -- and there's your answer!"
  13. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Corporate hegemony?
    Caste theocracy?

    I dunno.
  14. Harry Boy

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    The New Far Left Wing Democrats tend to be very domineering, nasty and vicious when threatend or when things don't seem to be going their way, they have a "we know whats best for you attitude" they also seem to want to destroy, censor, and eliminate anything and everybody who they see as a threat to their agenda, they will turn ugly and use every dirty trick in the book to eliminate those threats (digging thru rubbish bags, attacking children, attempting to censor & destroy talk radio, Fox News etc etc)

    I don't think the New Far Left Wing Democrats want either a Republic or a Democracy, they want a Dictatorship, I also believe this Silly Little President in his own mind sees himself as a "Little Castro"

    I Break Wind In Their General Direction

    :bricks:
  15. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    [​IMG]
  16. PatsFanInVa

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    ... and your party smells of elderberries.

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