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Unions and dems soaking the taxpayers AGAIN

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by patsfan13, Apr 6, 2010.

  1. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    new proposla to bail out union pension funds. Anyone who votes for thsi should be voted out of office (esp stupid RINO's)

    Troubled labor looks to federal government for help on pensions | The Daily Caller - Breaking News, Opinion, Research, and Entertainment



    Great people without pensions get to fund union people, with their tax dollars. :bricks:
  2. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #12 Jersey

    I don't quite "get" this part:

    Casey said his bill would cost the federal government $8 to 10 billion.

    PBGC is a federal agency, yes, but it takes no federal funds. There are no tax dollars which go to PBGC - unless he plans on diverting them there, I don't think he knows what he's talking about.


    PBGC receives no funds from general tax revenues. Operations are financed by insurance premiums set by Congress and paid by sponsors of defined benefit plans, investment income, assets from pension plans trusteed by PBGC, and recoveries from the companies formerly responsible for the plans.

    Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC)
  3. PatriotsReign

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    All I can say is "God help anyone who attempts to use our tax dollars to bail out union or public employee pensions"!

    We should prolly start praying for them now....
  4. PatriotsReign

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    Below is a letter from a citizen of San Francisco telling of the monopoly unions have on trash collection. I think everyone should be amazed and appalled over the facts contained in this letter. To me, it sounds like the way the mob used to run the construction industry without the "whacks"

    "Here in San Francisco picking up a garbage costs about $37/can per week.

    A contractor I know got fed up, canceled his service as did his neighbor. They simply loaded both houses garbage into his truck, took it to the dump and paid the $40 to get rid of it. He charged his friend $10.

    As a contractor he had to go to the dump all the time anyway. Pretty soon he had a small business, neighbors paying him $10 instead of $37, a difference of over $1400 per year or the price of a vacation or plasma TV for the family.

    He sorted their garbage and turned in the recycling for more money. Normally the neighbors had to keep two cans, sort their garbage themselves and the Garbage monopoly took all the recycling fees anyway.

    Pretty soon he hired a couple of neighborhood kids and his crew of 3 did both sides of residential streets at the same time. If you had an old monitor or TV, motor oil, or paint to get rid of he'd take that too, sometimes he'd charge you $5 + what the dump charged for the special item. Need an extra pickup? No problem. He'd work from 5am to 8am and he was earning $200 per day and his workers $75.

    The amazing thing he kept telling me was that the larger the truck you had the more money you could make. He was amazed that with only a modified large pickup truck he could make money at a third of what the Garbage company charged.

    When the local garbage company and its union found out about "Joe" they complained to the city. Within a year a law was passed stating that garbage service was now mandatory for all residents at the price the city's monopoly charged, which was shortly raised. And Joe? For a while he still took our recyclables until he was fined $4000, even though he had our permission. It appears our household recyclables are owned by the Garbage company, not us, as it subsidizes our low cost of garbage service!

    It is clear that monopolies are bad in business or unions and monopoly unions exist to enrich a class of privileged workers at the expense of ordinary workers.

    Cheers, Michael"
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2010
  5. Patsfanin Philly

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    #95 Jersey

  6. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #12 Jersey

    I think Michael might be confused -

    Basic Monthly Residential Collection Rate
    As of July 1, 2009, the basic monthly rate for the weekly collection of a 32-gallon container is $25.48. Collection rates are set to encourage recycling. The monthly collection charge is based on the black (garbage) cart. The blue and green carts are picked up at no additional charge. If you recycle enough to consistently reduce your weekly garbage volume to 20-gallons or less, you will be eligible for a 23% discount off the standard 32-gallon can rate.


    Recology SF • Residential Rates
  7. DarrylS

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    FYI Recology is an employee owned company, not a municipal agency..

    Here in the sticks it cost me $3.50 a bag to dispose of garbage if it is less than 50 lbs.. recycling stuff is free.

    They have a private pick up service, but prefer to take care of my own stuf.. plenty of time.
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2010
  8. PatriotsReign

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    I think the main point Michael was trying to make was the MONOPOLY the co. had on waste disposal. Even if they dispose of their own, they're charged. How can a gov't force people to pay for that service if they want to do it themselves.

    Remember, this isn't a "tax".
  9. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #12 Jersey

    But it's contracted by the City of San Francisco to pick up and dispose of the trash.

    From what I can tell, and this is just lookin' around on the 'Net, there is a current contract between the City and Recology and Waste Management of Alameda County.


    For the past three decades, the city has trucked its trash 62 miles to the Altamont landfill near Livermore, under an agreement that relied on the services of the Sanitary Fill Company (now Recology's SF Recycling and Disposal) and Oakland Scavenger Company (now Waste Management of Alameda County).

    Currently Recology collects San Francisco's curbside trash, hauls it to Pier 96, which is owned by the Port of San Francisco, then sends nonrecyclables to the Altamont landfill operated by Waste Management.


    Trash talk | San Francisco Bay Guardian

    The point is, regardless of who's running the monoply (either the city or Recology who's contracted by the city) talked about in the letter - it appears the actual charge is quite different than the one stated in the letter.

    I don't really care who does it - it just bothers me when people exaggerate to make a point. It's wrong to force people to do anything they don't want to do - at any price - but the deliberate misleading of the costs concerned is just a wrong thing to do - and it makes the rest of his (Michael's) story suspect. If you're willing to lie about something so easily verified or disprovable as the cost of monthly garbage pick up why wouldn't you be lying about everything else you're saying, too?
  10. PatriotsReign

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    It also could be that you can't find the exact details of who is charged what in every circumstance in Alameda county, CA. Is that also not a possibility? Below is the link to the letter.

    Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis: Trash Collecting Entrepreneur Squashed In San Francisco
  11. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #12 Jersey

    It's possible but not probable. Do you really think that one company would charge $37.00 a week while another company charged $25.48 a month? That's a difference of roughly $122.52 a month or $1,718.24 per customer per year. How long do you think that more expensive company is going to stay in business? VIrtually all companies who provide the same service charge very similar prices - I can't think of any, off hand, where the difference charged is that far off, can you?
  12. PatriotsReign

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    I have no idea since the average person wouldn't actually research such information because it's just not important.

    Logically, I also see no reason the guy would lie. He obviously didn't make the story up.
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2010
  13. DarrylS

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    People lie and exaggerate all the time, this guy Mish is all of sudden honest???

    More honest than the waste collection company???, who lists these rates on their website.. makes no sense..
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2010
  14. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #12 Jersey

    LOL And you know this how? It's an email to a guy you don't know - sent from a guy he doesn't know - printed in an online web site with a disclaimer telling you not to base anything you do on what you read there.

    People send lying emails all the time. Haven't you ever gotten anything from Nigeria? Or some testamonial to some penile enlargement product? Or something guarenteed to grow your girlfriend's boobs - complete with an honest-to-god story by some happy big boobed girl? Do you think those are all true?

    And why wouldn't "the average person" research something he/she doesn't know to be true before commenting on it? Does the "average person" have that little respect for himself and for others that he just says things, willy-nilly, with no regard for getting or giving the truth to others? If something sounds or looks fishy to the "average person" does he just meekly accept it without trying to understand it and then pass it along as gospel truth without at least trying to verifying it?

    That could certainly explain why we've got some of the elected officials we have in office now, wouldn't it? If the attitude is, someone said it, printed it, made a video about it - it must be true and we must all be good little sheep and accept it as gospel regardless of the fact that it doesn't even make sense then we really ARE in trouble.

    I know, I know ----none of it matters and so what if it does.

    It matters to me - but then again, I'm an Independent thinker - I don't let other people do my thinking - or my work - for me.
  15. PatriotsReign

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    Mike Shedlock is a nationally respected personality on economics. I absolutely respect his honesty.

    It just gets back to why would someone lie in a letter to him in which they had no idea would be put on Mish's blog?

    The killer is, if it was a letter from a single mother of a child with cancer who was writing about being cut off from health insurance....you & MrsP would be crying for her without questioning her honesty!!...what a joke and a damn shame!

    Strange that neither one of you "looked up Mike Shedlock's (Mish) reputation....:rolleyes:

    http://www.informedtrades.com/268141-economics-showdown-peter-schiff-vs-mike-shedlock.html

    "The Austrian economics blogosphere was rocked to its very core yesterday, when Mike Shedlock, one of the most popular economics bloggers on the web, dropped a serious smackdown on Peter Schiff in a post entitled, "Peter Schiff Was Wrong." In this post we'll analyze the beef between two of the most prolific economists of our time."

    Anyone who researches economics and market trends knows who Mike Shedlock is.
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2010
  16. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #12 Jersey

    You're the joke, PR. You and your pleas to everyone to "let's not get personal, let's all get along, let's all respect each other" threads. Darryll and I have said nothing personal to you at all here - I ask a question and you call question asking "obsessed" - Darryll and I mention that it's a possibility that the letter might not be real - especially since it appears that some of the information in it is incorrect - and suddenly it's "a joke."

    But, since you insist that you know us well enough to know what our reaction to a story about a sick child without health insurance would be let me take a moment to assure you that if the story appeared with the heading "this story was sent to me in an email by "Mrs. M." and the story contained things like " my doctor, let's call him Joe," and said "and the only soup she can eat is Campbell's Noodle Soup and it costs $13.21 a can," you can be damn sure I'd not be crying over it - nor would I be believing a word of it.

    However, if it were a story in a reputable news source and it gave the complete name of the mother who wrote the letter as well as that of her child, the name of the insurance company, the town they lived in and the correct price of soup, yeah, I'd probably not question it.

    You, however, would.....and that's the difference between you and I. I base my truths on verifiable facts - you base your truths on whatever agrees with your opinion.
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2010
  17. PatriotsReign

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    Back to the point...If I were in Alameda county, you can be sure I wouldn't allow myself to be forced to pay for trash collection. I'd just do it myself...since it's not a tax, people can't be forced to pay the fee if they don't use the service.
  18. PatsFanInVa

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    I used to feel very bad for Hansel and Gretel. The wicked witch, after all, intended to fatten them up, push them in an oven, and eat them up!

    But it turned out to just be a made-up story, similar to your $37-per-week trash collection fable.

    To use your favorite word, here, PR, "obviously" it was necessary to lie to construct a fiction in which a man would make any appreciable amount of money taking someone else's garbage away, on a small scale, with no special vehicle, etc. After all, he couldn't very well say he was charging $3 per neighbor. Nobody would do that. So instead, he inflated the price he was theoretically competing against by a factor of 6.

    When you base your screed on 100% fact-free gibberish, the screed is no longer a valid whine, any more than if I picketed makers of gingerbread for putting Hansel and Gretel in such great peril.

    Christ on a crutch, I can't believe I'm explaining this.

    PFnV
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2010
  19. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #12 Jersey

    That's fine, PR. You can do whatever you want. You're free to deal with whatever fees you want in any way you want. And if that's what you had said in the first place - that would have been fine, too, and would have saved a bunch of time for ya.

    You didn't say that, tho....what you said was this:

    Below is a letter from a citizen of San Francisco telling of the monopoly unions have on trash collection. I think everyone should be amazed and appalled over the facts contained in this letter. To me, it sounds like the way the mob used to run the construction industry without the "whacks"

    which has nothing to do with what you've just said now.

    We're still not even sure they have a monoply, are we? If you look in the yellow pages for San Francisco and Alameda County there are pages of private scavenger companies and waste management companies and junk haulers - complete with ads and prices - which leads me to think that it's not all that illegal to haul your own or to make your own arrangements....if it were there would be no need for so many companies offering to do it for you, would there?

    It's possible you may need a license to do it - and it's possible (maybe probable) that the guy in the email didn't have a license and didn't want to get one or to declare his business as a business for tax purposes - and that would be illegal and that could be what got him fined.

    That makes more sense, actually.
  20. Patsfanin Philly

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    #95 Jersey

    The Brothers Grimm made it up? How do we we know the kid wasn't a juvenile delinquent who attacked and killed a kindly old widow living in the woods and pushed her in th eoven after listening to heavy metal and playing video games?
    In all seriousness, the anecdote refers to the guy as contractor. If true, he could have been paying for one of those huge dumpsters that's 6x3x3 and likely would be that expensive in a city versus the small cans. We have a large dumpster at my office and it's way more expensive ( especially commercial) vs residential (same company). You both could be right. It would be in the nature of SF to be $25/month for residence and $37/wk for business.
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2010

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