Uncle Heatster's 3/18 7-round mock

[DaBruinz]

The Pats had scouted Maroney very heavily and they did talk to him at the combine. The Pats also were out to visit Mankins.


He met with one scout. Period.

It wasnt even a interview and it was just some quick questions.

He was never invited to Gillette never had a personal workout, he was surprised when the patriots called him at 21 and selected him.

He never thought he would have been drafted by new england.

Per SeanBruschi

Just watched the video on Patriots today where he said he never saw it coming.


Just goes to show you that sometimes Patriots will pick a guy out of left field even if they havnt even talked to him.

Just because Maroney "never saw it coming," doesn't mean that he never met with them or talked with them. He could have done so and walked away feeling like they weren't interested.

It doesn't show me a damn thing other than you refuse to admit that PFW and Mel Kiper have absolutely NO BEARING on what the Pats think about a player and that its fallacy for you to think that they do.

 

[mike100915]

So DaBruinz, do you just pick and choose what publication fits your arguement? I'm not saying he's a bad player, but he won't be a First Round pick. And the Patriots selecting in round 1 at #17, NO WAY!

I bet he will not be a First Round Pick. I'd defintely take him in round 2.

 

[mike100915]

Of course Mel Kiper, PFW, NFLDraftCountdown have no bearing on the Patriots picks. However, they have good insight and show you were a player may land. Also, PFW has good news on players who are falling. And most now say that Groves is falling fast.

No teams listen to any of these publications. (I hope) But, the fact of the matter is Groves IS falling. I don't see eveyone's infatuation with him.

 

[patchick]

On another note, I know it happens alot, but doing mock draft w/trades is kind of foolish. It's too hard to predict. I know that trades will occur, but there too hard to predict. I prefer a regular mock and leave the trades out. That's just me. Good work on the mock though.

I know that a lot of people feel this way, but I feel exactly the opposite. Insisting on no trades in a mock makes the whole thing feel like a totally artificial exercise to me.

Last year 10 of the first-round picks were made by teams other than the original pick holder -- some pre-draft trades, some draft-day. Trades are a very real part of the draft. I don't see the logic in saying "trades are too hard to predict, so I'm going to predict something I know won't happen instead." Making up a no-trade rule doesn't make any more sense to me than inventing any other fake rule that takes your mock one step farther from reality. Why should we have to pretend that the Pats would take somebody like Branden Albert at #7 when it's much more likely that they'd trade down?

 

[dryheat44]

Cousin,
Love your draft. Thank you for sharing it with us. Have to agree about Groves though. He is not a first round guy now. At #17 you might can still get Rivers. If you look in front of #17 there are not too many takers for an OLB after the Bengals who need DL help and past #17 like the Steelers and the Giants. The Jets won't take Rivers at #6 either. The Panthers? Maybe. As a fall back, how about Dan Connor? He can play in and out and is BB type cerebral. He is very much under the radar. As far as #69 for Young. I think it is too high. I like Duane Brown for VA Tech or even swing to DL depth and grab Trevor Laws and see perhaps a OT like John Greco from Toledo later on.

Thank you. Personally, I'd rather have Groves than Rivers. What we need more than anything is a terror coming off the edge. That's Groves. I'm also not sold on Rivers. I have a hard time separating him from the other great players in that USC front 7: Maulauga, Cushing, Ellis, Williams, Jackson. I like Connor OK, he wouldn't be my preference though unless he really, really slipped...third round slippage. I do like all the linemen you mention, but if anything, I think Young is undervalued. Last year, he was regarded as a possible first round pick. He can play all G & T spots, and if not for his injury, he'd almost certainly be the second guard off the board.

I still see a good value in a trade with the Falcons at #7. The Falcons need a QB . They do not have one. Arthur Blanks wants Ryan and the new coaching staff wants a starting O-lineman or D-Lineman. I agree with Blanks. Ryan made a mediocre B.C. team look pretty decent this year. He can upgrade the Falcons. But in the following scenario that can have their cake and eat it too because of their many choices. They scoop Ryan at #3 before the Chiefs. Now Atlanta gets our #7 for two of the three of their second Round choices of #34 and #37 picks, their Round four #103 and next year, the Falcons 2009 Round three choice. The value numbers work. The Falcons can get OT Alberts or the remaining DT of Dorsey or Ellis then at #7. The Falcons still have many other draft choices including another round two choice.

The Pats can still get a great CB (Cason) and maybe Avril (or Groves and the end of two) or even trade to go back into round one if Rivers lingers.

The problem I have in this is that the first pick isn't until #34. In that position, we could be forced to trade up to get an impact player Belichick wants, and that's not always a given. I don't care much that the value squares.....in theory, Atlanta could trade us 600 7th round picks and the value would be square. It would still be a terrible trade. If Atlanta wants #7, the conversation starts at one of their second round picks and their first rounder next year. I would need more, though, if I was in Belichick's shoes.

From #77 on you are dead-on (Maybe S.C.'s Cory Boyd for Parmele? Better hands).
DW Toys

I think we're less likely to draft a pass-catching back, and more about a bruising type. I think of the two, Parmele's the bruiser. The other one I considered is Xavier Omon. Small school bowling ball with amazing productivity. What scared me off him is his four years starting. That's a lot of hits for the body to absorb walking into your rookie year. Good discussion, thanks.

 

[PatsandTrojans55]

Some FYI on Groves.

Groves is in the same range he has always been and that's 18-30 of round 1. Nothing has change but the press coverage. First, he started RISING after an impressive combine and pro day workout. Partly because he's a Pass-Rush OLB and that is a thinner postion with respect to this draft and since the Super Bowl, EVERY Team is all the sudden going crazy for pass rushers as oppose to any other year.(Sarcasm) So to the media and so called experts he was rising. Now, they get a report about his surgery for his heart and all the sudden he's falling. What is happening is the talking heads and so-call draft experts (I.E. Mel Kiper's of the world) act like they have all these sources and just discovered something on these kids but this particular thing has been know for at least two months now. They report things like they have an inside scoop but the truth is they find out when some "insider" is ready to leak the information that most people already know.

Groves, is high on some teams boards and low on others but that was determined by interviews, private workouts and flaws that stick out in film study. He was and always has been a 18-30 1st rounder in this draft.

PT55

 

[PonyExpress]

Probably the final one before the draft. I've got the Patriots replenishing their LBs, so take it for what it's worth. Complete mock here: http://www.199overall.com/?q=node/35

#7 New England trades this pick to Cincinnati for #9 and #77. The Bengals take Sedric Ellis.

#9 New England trades this pick, along with #129 to Minnesota for #17 and #47. The Vikings take Derrick Harvey

#17 Quentin Groves OLB Auburn

Assuming the Pats give him the medical green light, thumbs up.

#27 San Diego trades this pick to New England for #47 and #62. The Patriots take Antoine Cason CB Arizona

Thumbs up.

#69 Eric Young G/T Tennessee

I'm reluctant to spend this high a pick on someone who hasn't been able to work out. The injury was serious enough for him to miss 8 games and the entire draft process. Do you have any scoop on his medical status?

#77 Josh Barrett S Arizona St

Thumbs up.

#94 Dexter Jackson WR Appalachian St

I haven't really looked at WRs, other than J. Hardy, but everyone else seems to like Jackson.

#164 Stanford Keglar LB Purdue

Thumbs up.

#197 Jalen Parmele RB Toledo

I love this pick. Parmele is a huge sleeper.

#238 Jeremy Leman ILB Illinois

Thumbs down. I don't like him. I'd rather take the kid from Syracuse, more versatile, who's actually healthy.

xxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[ALP]

Probably the final one before the draft. I've got the Patriots replenishing their LBs, so take it for what it's worth. Complete mock here: http://www.199overall.com/?q=node/35

#7 New England trades this pick to Cincinnati for #9 and #77. The Bengals take Sedric Ellis.

#9 New England trades this pick, along with #129 to Minnesota for #17 and #47. The Vikings take Derrick Harvey

#17 Quentin Groves OLB Auburn

#27 San Diego trades this pick to New England for #47 and #62. The Patriots take Antoine Cason CB Arizona

#69 Eric Young G/T Tennessee

#77 Josh Barrett S Arizona St

#94 Dexter Jackson WR Appalachian St

#164 Stanford Keglar LB Purdue

#197 Jalen Parmele RB Toledo

#238 Jeremy Leman ILB Illinois

i LOVE ur first 4 lines...after that not so much

i like goff, chris johnson especially

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Why would I look at PFW? They mean NOTHING. The Patriots have their OWN scouting. They don't listen to people like Kiper or PFW. So, to attempt to use PFW and Kiper as a gauge for the Pats is a fallacy on your part.

Just as a reminder, Kiper and PFW both said that the Pats screwed up and reached taking Mankins at 32. Mankins is damn near an ALL-PRO guard. Not the level of Hannah, but he's getting there.

This is an excellent point. The Pats don't subscribe to the NFL generic cheese whiz scouting factories.

This means the Pats really are starting from scratch and targeting players that fit their scheme. So the draft "gurus" pan the Pats draft picks, but all we do is keep winning.

And this is why losers like Mel Diaper, fired as a Baltimore scout years ago, don't understand why BB drafts as he does. Diaper looks at the player as if in a generic 4-3 defense. BB looks at a player as fitting into HIS defense. So while Diaper will have a 6'0" 210 ILB rated very highly, that same player won't be on BB's draft baord and Diaper can not understand why BB doesn;t draft that player.

 

[PatsandTrojans55]

*Prospect watch*

Some people had this guy as a late round sleeper and mentioned him sometime ago. However, he is moving up alot of boards lately after private workouts and interviews.

Rutgers G/T- Jeremy Zuttah.

Alot of recon on O-Line for the Pats and this was a name that was brought up recently with the terms "Versatility, Durability, Intelligence, Leadership" thrown around. Thoughts are was a possible 4th to 5th, now will be (to some teams) early 3rd maybe mid-second but not getting past the 3rd.

PT55

 

[Ochmed Jones]

*Prospect watch*

Some people had this guy as a late round sleeper and mentioned him sometime ago. However, he is moving up alot of boards lately after private workouts and interviews.

Rutgers G/T- Jeremy Zuttah.

Alot of recon on O-Line for the Pats and this was a name that was brought up recently with the terms "Versatility, Durability, Intelligence, Leadership" thrown around. Thoughts are was a possible 4th to 5th, now will be (to some teams) early 3rd maybe mid-second but not getting past the 3rd.

PT55

Rice had a lot of success running behind OT Zuttah last season. However Cameron Stephenson did not wow in his rookie season and becase of that, I think you have to do a lot of due dilignece, especailly in the film room before taking Zuttah.
I might be tempted with a 7th round pick on this guy, but not higher.

I think Dryheat had him as an UDFA in one of his mocks and I think that is excellent value for him.

 

[dryheat44]

Rice had a lot of success running behind OT Zuttah last season. However Cameron Stephenson did not wow in his rookie season and becase of that, I think you have to do a lot of due dilignece, especailly in the film room before taking Zuttah.
I might be tempted with a 7th round pick on this guy, but not higher.

I think Dryheat had him as an UDFA in one of his mocks and I think that is excellent value for him.

I had him late as far as value to the Patriots, but I think he'll go much higher, especially if teams project him to an above-average tackle.

 

[PonyExpress]

*Prospect watch*

Some people had this guy as a late round sleeper and mentioned him sometime ago. However, he is moving up alot of boards lately after private workouts and interviews.

Rutgers G/T- Jeremy Zuttah.

Alot of recon on O-Line for the Pats and this was a name that was brought up recently with the terms "Versatility, Durability, Intelligence, Leadership" thrown around. Thoughts are was a possible 4th to 5th, now will be (to some teams) early 3rd maybe mid-second but not getting past the 3rd.

PT55

Good news. I am a big fan of Zuttah and would be happy even if the Pats draft him as early as #69. I see him as a guard, not a tackle.

 

[PonyExpress]

The Pats had scouted Maroney very heavily and they did talk to him at the combine. The Pats also were out to visit Mankins.




The last you heard? Really? That's funny because neither NFLDraftScout.com nor NFLDraftCountdown.com has Groves falling. Both have him as a mid to low 1st/High 2nd pick. As for what Kiper thinks, Kiper is one of the worst when it comes to predictions. And I can't remember a time when he actually got a Pats pick correct in his mocks.

Interesting about Maroney: McDaniels brother was on the Minnesota staff, so they had all the inside scoop they could have wanted. They probably knew more abotu Maroney than anyone, without having to bring him in for a visit.

Gosselin has a down arrow on Groves, FWIW.

 

[Water Boy]

I know that a lot of people feel this way, but I feel exactly the opposite. Insisting on no trades in a mock makes the whole thing feel like a totally artificial exercise to me.

Amen Patchick. I agree 100%. The no trade mocks are stupid.