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Um, the 99% is getting it together...

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PatsFanInVa, Oct 18, 2011.

  1. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm sure there will be various groups surfacing with various notions. However, these guys seem to have gotten there first...

    The 99 Percent Declaration | COTO Report

    Interesting as all hell. There's obvious a left populist perspective here rather than a right populist perspective, but they leave open the possibility to be coopted by either wing, but only through a parallel democratic process...

    Click and read. Election of delegates is irrespective of party; however, they do provide a laundry list of stuff that may or may not be in their petition of grievances.

    Some would get thumbs up from all parties here (very strict limits on the revolving door between business and government, anti-lobbying, anti-money-in-politics.)

    Other stuff is only attractive to the left, not the right.

    But none of it necessarily has to end up on the petition to be drafted in Philly.

    Like I said, interesting... (PS, I take it for granted that hardcore righties are going to just be dumbasses about it. Me? Love the messaging... and they might end up getting some of their stuff through -- we'll see.)

    PFnV
     
  2. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #61 Jersey

    Just imagine if this thing picks up steam ...
     
  3. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    Interesting use of the word "democratic". I thought a democracy was a country where every adult of sound mind got the right to vote (except, of course, those who lost their voting rights via due process). Interesting indeed; that is it's interesting how you're taking a group who wants to exclude 1% of the population from the political process and you're still comfortable calling it a "democracy."

    Tell me, PF, what happens when they come after you? How would you feel about someone forming another "parallel democratic process" where they excluded Jews from voting? I know I sure would not be comfortable with such a thing.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2011
  4. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    I have to say I really, genuinely hope this thing gets off the ground. They're essentially promising that if their "grievances" are not addressed, they promise to vote 3rd party in 2014.

    And since their "grievances" are, on the whole, significantly liberal in nature, it would completely shatter the democrat voting bloc in two. :rofl: :rofl:
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2011
  5. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Never heard of COTO until today, but back in the day never heard of the great civil rights marches until shortly before...

    There will not be a third party, there is too much money needed.. there is a greater chance of that happening on the right as the extreme righties are backed by the rich dudes and rich dudettes...

    My guess is that they will merge with the Democrats, more than anything else.
     
  6. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #95 Jersey

    Sounds great but how do you pay for all these new programs and pay down the debt when you're done taxing the wealthiest at 100%?? what was Margaret Thatcher's line, " the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."

    From a quick scan
    >>>1. Implementing an immediate ban on all private contributions of money and gifts, to all politicians in federal office, from Individuals, Corporations, Political Action Committees, Super Political Action Committees, Lobbyists, Unions and all other private sources of money to be replaced by the fair and equal public financing of all federal political campaigns. We REJECT the concept that money is equal to free speech because if that were so, then only the wealthiest would have a voice.<<<<<

    By banning contributions and replacing it with public financing ( has anyone scored the cost??) essentially only those with money ( 1%) can finance their own campaigns.. Kinda defeats the purpose…Devil is in the details…

    >>>> 2. The immediate reversal of the outrageous and anti-democratic holding in the “Citizens United” case by the Supreme Court, which equates the payment of money by corporations to politicians with free speech<<<<

    You want to reverse it. Use the process and start a Constitutional amendment….


    >>>> . Prohibiting all public officials and their immediate family members, whether elected or appointed from EVER being employed by any corporation they regulate while in office or holding any stock or shares in any corporation they regulate while in office until a full 5 years after their term is completed.<<<<

    Kinda kills mutual funds but what’s wrong with truly blind trusts??? I like the concept and while you're at it, prevent them from lobbying Congress.
     
  7. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Okay, first of all, a ton of people are angry that this person got out front and said "Whhhhhheeeeeee we're having a convention!!!" Evidently there's now OWS infighting available for all to see.

    I have no idea how many people this person "represents" in posting the "declaration," but that said, let's talk about the document (which I like, by and large.)

    Sidetrack, on the Thatcher line...

    It's the same problem with capitalism, evidently.

    I'm not sure that with this crowd Mrs. Thatcher's bromide will be that persuasive.

    By the way I prefer the original sentiment, that goes to the actual Marxist idea of full communism, but is therefore too gentle to be used politically: "The problem with Communism is there's no money in it."

    The financing piece immediately caught my eye, not just because it's first on the list, but because it's something so many people on all sides agree with.

    Just a few days I challenged someone here w/a proposal of making all ad spend (including propaganda movies etc.) for campaign purposes illegal, and having only public broadcast time legal. The public time would be a condition of FCC licensing.

    In that formulation it doesn't help you to be rich, and you don't have to score the cost, except for the hit for a few hours of ad time per week foregone by the networks every election season.

    Think about it. They are using the process. They're petitioning for a redress of grievances.

    They also note what action they'll take if the petition is ignored (i.e., a political faction in 2014.)

    That's probably why so many people are saying this person wants to coopt the movement. It also reeks of tea party iconography, so some folks in OWS are probably wondering. I'm looking at content and I'm liking it.

    One of the kiddies here says "Hey neato that'll schism the Dems in 14!!!!"

    That's the threat, and that threat is against the Dems. It's precisely the same tactic used to purge the Republicans of so-called "RINOs," and send a majority of loonies to Congress in '10 -- with the "actual" majority of Republicans forced to be temporarily truly loony by a minority threatening to "primary" them.

    So from the point of view of an organization attempting to actually establish a less timid Dem party, it's valid. It's keeping the pressure on, essentially.

    I'm on the fence, tactically speaking. In terms of what this group wants -- if this author actually does speak for anybody, and this actually does get off the ground -- again, I'm comfortable with "how far it goes." It's "out there" in terms of our usual politics, but I'm a bourgie moderate. I like this threat more than lighting Starbucks on fire.

    I hear you on the mutual funds. However, that problem is a non-problem if the purpose of the investment vehicle is a diverse portfolio.

    In other words, if you want to invest in 30 energy concerns, you're an energy investor. You have a vested interest in energy concerns, whether it's Shell or Chevron that reaps the benefit (and at the policy level, it's usually a whole industry.)

    So this provision can very easily be tailored to allow investment in diversified mutual funds, but not in those targeted to an industry.... Unless we are afraid that our public servants are investing in our economy in general.

    A blind trust therefore could exist w/an arms-length transaction, you just would have to be very strict as to its blindness (i.e., no guidance that favors any one sector of economic activity.)

    PFnV
     
  8. BSR

    BSR In the Starting Line-Up

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    Interesting is one word I would use about it. Naive and infeasible are others. And I am not even talking about the proposed action items, some of which are downright laughable. I can't wait for my local election
     
  9. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Consider pandering and idealistic to every political process I have ever observed.....
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2011
  10. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    Don't hold your breath. They don't have anywhere near the resources or the support to do what they are claiming they will do.
     

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