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Typical NFL Game: 11 minutes of action

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by borg, Jun 25, 2011.

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  1. borg

    borg Rookie

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    Let's call it:
    5 minutes offense
    5 minutes defense
    1 minute special teams

    16 game season, typical offense is engaged:
    80 minutes over 4 months
    20 minutes over 1 month
    5 minutes over 1 week

    Now let's look at hockey...the Bruins are a good example:
    Regular season games: 82
    playoff games: 25
    total games: 107
    total actual game time: 6,420 minutes

    Now let's look at extreme example: Zdeno Chara
    Chara averaged 26 minutes/game vs. Vancouver=5+ games for typical NFL starter.
    In fact Chara completed a typical NFL season in 3 games.

    So let's review: Chara plays 30 times more minutes than typical NFL player in equally physical sport (let the debate begin) and somehow he can play 2-4 games per week over 9 months.....yet the NFLPA believes that increasing the schedule by two games, totalling an extra 10 minutes of field battle is too much for their members.

    3-2-1....let the attacks begin .....
  2. Beecke

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    I donĀ“t think the two sports are the same physically at all.

    And anyway, over the last few years I have read so many utterly depressing and horrific stories of former NFL players, who are living the life of 80 year olds (health wise) in their 40s, that I will never hold it against them if they donĀ“t want to play another two regular season games. We are talking about people here who seriously risk to have any kind of acceptable life after the NFL. (Nevermind that most of the bad stuff happens during practice though)

    I have not read as many stories about hockey players, maybe there is not that big a focus on them, but probably they still live a good life getting older for the majority of times.

    In any case, I donĀ“t need to compare the NFL with any other league, the situation of quite a few of those players after retirement is bad enough to not underestimate their claims.
  3. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    In before thread gets sent to practice squad
  4. Tunescribe

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    #61 Jersey

    You're comparing apples and oranges, and you're dead wrong about the sports being "equally physical." Much of this depends on position, of course, as both sports often rotate players depending upon time on the ice/field and situation. In hockey, exertion is more "continuous" but most contact is incidental and seldom head-on. In football, most players engage in contact on every play -- approximately 62 collisions PER GAME for linemen. Deliberately intentional contact in hockey (announcers even keep stats on "hits" vs. routine glancing checks on the boards) are a fraction of those seen in football. Hockey is more aerobic, football is more anaerobic. Both are very physical but in different ways.
  5. Gainzo

    Gainzo Rookie

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    borg makes a good point about actual "action" in football. Why does a 60 minute NFL game take 3+ hours to play? Commercials, timeouts, TV timeouts, running plays, time spent in the huddle, running down the clock, etc.

    Don't get me wrong as I love the NFL; but there is a reason the game isn't very popular in just about every other Country.
  6. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    It's pointless to compare the violent chess of the NFL to the checkers on ice of the NHL. Both are good sports.
  7. borg

    borg Rookie

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    Incidental? I guess skating at 25 MPH and getting slammed into boards that don't give is nothing like a lineman traveling five feet toward a squishy NT. And think about what an NHL defenseman goes through night in and night out. Hand to hand combat ....or should I say stick to throat/stick to back in front of their net ....followed by sprints up ice. 100mph slapshots at their ankles...scrums/fights nightly. The only difference is hockey players don't lead with their heads, yet concussions seem equally prevalent.
    My point for this discussion was to point out how one set of athletes can recover and compete....and don't forget practice daily when not competing....every other night while the NFL whines about adding 10 minutes of actual excertion.
  8. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    eh, people define "action" differently. I like soccer, but I don't buy the notion that it is action filled just because the ball is constantly moving. And it's not just about scoring, as evidenced (imo) by the "action" and scoring of the NBA.
  9. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    He did say most contact is incidental, not that there are no ferocious hits.

    I do think the general point of the type of contact is spot on. The recovery is simply different. Especially when guys in the NFL regularly weigh 30% to nearly 100% (granted, at the far end) more than NHL players, you've just got a different kind of contact and a different kind of recovery (imo).
  10. patriot lifer

    patriot lifer Rookie

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    Not that I completely disagree with this argument, but...when we make the age-old comparison to Soccer (that's football to you Brits out there), soccer has lots of time during its "continuous play" where essentially nothing happens. Like when the ball is passed back and forth between the same 3 guys in the middle of the field and the game ends at 0-0. Many will call it suspense, but we have plenty of that in American football too. But this is all OT.

    Edit: Plus, I don't think patience is a quality exceptional to us (as compared to other countries). In fact, if anything, we should hate football, lol.
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2011
  11. NSPF

    NSPF Rookie

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    I don't mean to "attack," but such egregious misuse of statistics and numbers is always appalling to me.

    According to the NFLPA (which could admittedly potentially skew the numbers in some way), the average number of injuries in the NFL, per week, per team, is around 3.5 (3.7 last season), which means that if your claimed 11 minutes of action is accurate, a player gets hurt on average every ~3 minutes. I don't have stats for hockey, but it's perfectly clear to everyone that injuries don't occur every three minutes. Injuries don't even occur every 60 minutes.

    Football has a drastically higher injury rate (injuries/time) than hockey does, which means that your numbers are completely irrelevant. If the NFLPA's numbers are right, or even close to right, it would appear that adding two more games would cause each team to potentially have an average of six or seven more injuries each year, which is why many people are opposed to the 18 game season.
  12. Gainzo

    Gainzo Rookie

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    Not a soccer guy. I'm Australian so I grew up with Aussie Rules Football and Rugby. The comment I made was from my Aussie friends who like American football but get frustrated with all the stoppages.
  13. patriot lifer

    patriot lifer Rookie

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    I can believe it.
  14. Triumph

    Triumph Rookie

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    #32 Jersey

    Precisely

    The NFL has had to implement new rules to prevent players from serious injury.The NFL is far more dangerous and violent.
  15. patriot lifer

    patriot lifer Rookie

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    While there's something to the argument, nobody is going to argue that one game of NFL football is less debilitating on the body than one game of NHL hockey. Increasing the number of games by 2 adds 1/8th to the schedule, or 12.5%. If they were capable of playing a lot more football games, then we'd sooner see best of 3 in the playoffs and games occurring more frequently than once per week. But in reality, at the end of the season, everyone is beat up. They may not appear on the injury report, but they're beat up.
  16. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The NHL has also had to implement new rules to prevent players from serious injury.
  17. Triumph

    Triumph Rookie

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    #32 Jersey

    They have helmet to helmet hits in the NHL on a frequent basis?

    The fact that the NHL can plays as many games as it does and with a playoff format of a couple of days rest between games says everything.
  18. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #61 Jersey

    Yes, hockey contact is incidental. Which means, the amount and severity of contact varies significantly from player to player, game to game. As much contact as there is in hockey at the pro level, it's not as integral to the sport as it is to football. Football collisions happen more often at a higher rate of "torque," relatively speaking: Look at injury rates and the types of injuries sustained compared to those in hockey. Again, your attempt to define this in terms of "minutes" played is apples to oranges -- aerobic action on ice w/skates vs. anaerobic action on turf w/cleats is not a linear comparison.
  19. TruthSeeker

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    I watch 95% of my football using a DVR, typically starting to watch 45-60 minutes after the opening kickoff. I highly recommend it if you prefer to just watch the action.
  20. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I was responding to something specific you said: "The NFL has had to implement new rules to prevent players from serious injury.". As for head shots, guys like Savard could explain it to you, I'm sure.
  21. Ron Sellers

    Ron Sellers Rookie

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    I like lobster. I enjoy filet mignon. Just because I like one it doesn't mean I don't like the other. Likewise, just because one is good it doesn't make the other bad.


    Why the need to say one sport is somehow, someway better than the other? Would you rate and rank your own children that way? Can't we just watch any and all sports that we enjoy, without having to pick one over the other?
  22. Triumph

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    #32 Jersey

    Ridiculous as usual, but I would expect nothing less from you.

    So, NHL deliberately launch themselves head first into opposing players on a frequent basis. GTFO
  23. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Even for offseason, this thread is silly.
  24. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think the 11 minutes is a little low, DirectTV has a feature which cuts the game down to just the plays, (and some select replays) and they fit it in to a thirty minute time slot. I would put the average action to about somewhere between the 18-22 minute range.

    Lets also remember that hockey shifts usually don't last longer than one minute. If anyone is on the ice for more than that, they are usually gassed. And even with that, it is not like they are skating up and down the ice five times in that minute. Football is full speed, full contact for a good seven to ten seconds (12 if your name is Mankins), then the rest and then back at it.

    Hockey is a great game, but football is definatley more violent, in a typical game their are about thirty violent checks, in a typical football game there are seven violent collisions on each and every play.
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2011
  25. tobias funke

    tobias funke Rookie

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    The kicker for me:

    Fans love football. The only thing better than football, is more football.

    Yet even most of the fans are against an 18-game season. In a world where everyone wants more, even the most avid supporters of the game can recognize the detriment lengthening the season would be to the overall health of the game (and its players).

    It's easy to look at football and say, "only 16-19 games a season? why not play more?" But once you watch those games every week, especially towards the end of the year, you will understand why it should stay the way it is.
  26. PatsFanSince74

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    Good points. These are two violent sports.

    If we take your numbers. With thirty violent checks per game, a hockey team would endure around 2,460 such checks in a season. With seven violent collisions per play, with 130 or so plays per game on offense and defense combined (the Pats average in 2010 was 127.6), an NFL team would endure 14,560 such hits in a season.
  27. Deus Irae

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    I'm sorry that you don't grasp the correlation/response. Perhaps I wasn't being clear enough. Let me try to make it more obvious.

    You made a claim, implying the NFL was doing something the NHL didn't have to do.

    I noted that the NHL had done the same thing. Here's the NHL on head shots:


    New rule on head hits designed to curb concussions - NHL.com - Rules

    Board of Governors approves changes to two rules - NHL.com - News

    So, first banning at one level, and then ratcheting up the rules even higher this year. That's what the NFL has done with head shots/launching/defenseless receiver over the past couple of years.

    As I noted, Savard is an example of why the NHL has had to make the change. His career may be over as a result of repeated concussions.
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2011
  28. borg

    borg Rookie

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    Google..."nfl actual minutes"...and you will be able to read dozens of articles stating game time is between 11-12 minutes

    As to your paragragh describing hockey shifts....clearly you don't know what you are talking about.

    Back to NFL:
    Average length of each play: 5.5 seconds
    Remaining game clock allowed after each average length play: 39.5 seconds

    Expanding NFL action/rest in NHL terms (5.5 secs NFL : 1min NHL) gets you 39.5 secs/395 secs. In other words, if NHL players rested the same proportion between shifts as NFL players rest between plays., NHL players would rest 6.5 minutes per shift. But since the typical NHL team uses 3.5 lines (4th line is used sporadically), NHL players get half the rest

    Incidental Hits topic: I seem to recall that the amount of "incidental" hits vs Vancouver was about 2-3 per possession and 2-3 per forechecking. In other words, the battles were won and lost in the corners with bodies flying into each other continuously....and usually longer than 5.5 seconds.

    Violent hits topic: certainly different angles of hitting ...with NHL players only able to throw punches at heads instead of arm tackles around pads. Curious, do you think violent hitting is occurring on the line when Brady goes back to pass 35 times per game. O linemen standing/fending off defenders trying to go around them. Seems Chara is acting in a similar manner defending in front of his own net....yet he can play 30 times more minutes over a season, 3 times a week over 9 months. Again my point is: I don't buy the NFLPA arguement that more than 16 games in a regular season is too many. Seems to me that the underlying reason that restricts more games is that NFL rosters are too small to begin with....basically 1.25 reserve players for every starter. The NHL has a 4:1 ratio, NBA 3:1.

    By the way, did any one watch the college rugby 7s championships last week.....teams played 3 games a day plus on consecutive days. Imagine...continuous action, tackling, no pads, games every two hours....all weekend.
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2011
  29. sbpatfan

    sbpatfan Banned

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    Having played both sports I'll take a hockey check as opposed to a football hit every day of the week. Football hits are violent, hockey checks are mostly strategy. Most of the big hockey hits come when the guy being hit is in a bad position, has his head down, or the guy dishing out the hit is doing something illegal.
  30. Tunescribe

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    Borg, stop already with the apples-to-oranges hitting comparisons -- they're hugely different between the sports as I've tried to point out. Other aspects you need to consider:

    * Almost all hockey hits are limited to the well-padded upper body area.
    * Impacts seldom involve collisions with both players moving full speed into each other -- the "hittee" usually is static or moving much slower than the "hitter."
    * Being on a slick playing surface lessens the amount of force absorbed as the "hittee" usually moves with the blow.
    * And as I've noted, hockey contact is incidental -- players can go for long stretches of time, even full games, without hard hits.
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