Ty Law

[PatsBoy12]

Precisely, and we all know that ESPN knows how to fabricate with the best of 'em.

True indeed.

 

[jmt57]

Funny thing about the Pro Bowl and All Pro teams. Every year the consensus by fans and media is that the voting is a joke, with very little thought put into the selections, and instead the same names keep reappearing regardless of who was actually deserving to be named.

But then at the end of a player's career one statistic that is almost always trotted out when a player is being considered for the Hall of Fame is ... yep, number of times he was a an All Pro or went to the Pro Bowl.

 

[eagle eye]

Funny thing about the Pro Bowl and All Pro teams. Every year the consensus by fans and media is that the voting is a joke, with very little thought put into the selections, and instead the same names keep reappearing regardless of who was actually deserving to be named.

But then at the end of a player's career one statistic that is almost always trotted out when a player is being considered for the Hall of Fame is ... yep, number of times he was a an All Pro or went to the Pro Bowl.

Back in the day you had to earn a place in the pro bowl. Last year Brett Favre made it which just shows how much of a joke it has become. There are penty of other recent examples too.

 

[eagle eye]

Bailey's performance over the decade as a whole has been superior.

I'm not disagreeing with that at all. I'm just saying that when the heat is on, I know which guy I would want and thats Ty Law.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Funny thing about the Pro Bowl and All Pro teams. Every year the consensus by fans and media is that the voting is a joke, with very little thought put into the selections, and instead the same names keep reappearing regardless of who was actually deserving to be named.

But then at the end of a player's career one statistic that is almost always trotted out when a player is being considered for the Hall of Fame is ... yep, number of times he was a an All Pro or went to the Pro Bowl.

That's been my complaint for years. I bring it up in some of my conversations since it seems that's what everyone else likes to bring up when they're discussing their players. I've thought the Pro Bowl was a joke for years now. I would like to think the All-Pro voting is a little different since the fans aren't involved in that one, but even that I don't give much credence. So I absolutely agree with you, Jmt.

 

[DESERTPAT]

." My issue is simple, how the f*ck did Champ Bailey make the top 25 team and not Law? "

After the sticking he gave the pats last year I still can't believe the love for this clown. Anyone who thinks Ty Law is anywhere near as good as Champ Bailey is a helpless homer.

 

[PittPatriot]

Well all I can say is that we have lost out in a few huge games since his departure. Remember Asante Samuel getting that pass interference call against the Broncos just before halftime.

Remember the AFC Championship game against the Colts where Hobbs got called for interference in the end zone and of course in 07/08 SB when we gave up a late one to lose the game. I'm not saying we would have won both games but Law would have made a difference in one of the two and we'd have four SBs because if it was in the AFC game we'd have went on and beaten the Bears.

Ty has always been a very very physical corner and there is a direct correlation between the drop-off in his stats and overall play and the PI rule changes. I loved having him on our team (bought his freakin' jersey the year before he left). Let us not forget one of the reasons PI calls became so touchy was Polian's reaction to the play of Ty Law vs. his receivers.
Champ Bailey has flourished within the confines of the new rules.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Did you miss that part, both when you read my post and when you quoted it? First team All Pro for a corner would mean that you were considered to be one of the two best cornerbacks in the league by the selectors of that particular version of the award. Since Law only made it on the list in 2 seasons, there's not enough evidence just there to validate the poster's assertion.

Hence the request for the evidence.

I did read your post, and it didn't have a point. Whether or not you make first-team All Pro is borderline irrelevant. It's a meaningless award, as shown by the fact that Brady has made it only once. Law may or may not be one of the top 2 CBs of the 2000s (I don't think he is, FWIW), but the number of first-team all pros that he has to his name says absolutely nothing one way or the other.

 

[Deus Irae]

I did read your post, and it didn't have a point. Whether or not you make first-team All Pro is borderline irrelevant. It's a meaningless award, as shown by the fact that Brady has made it only once. Law may or may not be one of the top 2 CBs of the 2000s (I don't think he is, FWIW), but the number of first-team all pros that he has to his name says absolutely nothing one way or the other.

The poster wrote:

There was a period of 3-4 years where he was regarded as the best in the game by people outside of this board.

An All-Pro vote would show that he was regarded as at least one of the two best in the game by people outside of this board. However, he achieved that only twice, not three or four times. Therefore, I asked for evidence of his assertion, since I don't see anything regarding another year or two.

 

[PatsBoy12]

The poster wrote:



An All-Pro vote would show that he was regarded as at least one of the two best in the game by people outside of this board. However, he achieved that only twice, not three or four times. Therefore, I asked for evidence of his assertion, since I don't see anything regarding another year or two.

That's so faulty. Someone can be regarded as the best at the position, but there can simply be someone playing better than said player at the time of voting. It's all subjective. The point that I was making is that there was a period of 3-4 years where he was widely regarded as one of the best, if not the best, cornerbacks in the game. Has Champ Bailey or anyone else who is considered the best at his position been voted to an All-Pro team every single year? Brady right now is widely regarded as the best QB in the league, but does he make the All-Pro team every year?

I once watched a Monday Night game where John Madden raved about the guy and said that he thought Ty was the best in the game at that point. I know there's going to be a clown or two that reads this and tries to discredit it by talking sh*t about Madden and that's fine. The fact is, however, that it was not just John Madden.

My bottom line is that I was looking at the career and not just this decade. I cleared that up a few posts back. Apparently, others don't see Ty the same way I do, especially since he has been a non-factor for a few consecutive years now. I just thought that his body of work should have put him on that list. I was never ever knocking Champ. In fact, I gave him props in my original post. Whatever though. He's not on the list and that's that. The earth keeps spinning as we get closer to the 2009-10 season. Case closed. End of thread.

 

[Deus Irae]

That's so faulty. Someone can be regarded as the best at the position, but there can simply be someone playing better than said player at the time of voting. It's all subjective. The point that I was making is that there was a period of 3-4 years where he was widely regarded as one of the best, if not the best, cornerbacks in the game.

And the point I was making was that I could see the argument for 2 seasons, since he had been named to the first team All Pro. However, since that was for only 2 years and not 3 or 4, I pointed out that I'd still need evidence. As in for a different year or 2.

Also, you didn't make the claim that "he was widely regarded as one of the best, if not the best, cornerbacks in the game.", you stated "There was a period of 3-4 years where he was regarded as the best in the game by people outside of this board. ". There is a difference between those two statements, particularly given that your argument was in the context of comparing Law to Bailey.

 

[PatsBoy12]

And the point I was making was that I could see the argument for 2 seasons, since he had been named to the first team All Pro. However, since that was for only 2 years and not 3 or 4, I pointed out that I'd still need evidence. As in for a different year or 2.

Also, you didn't make the claim that "he was widely regarded as one of the best, if not the best, cornerbacks in the game.", you stated "There was a period of 3-4 years where he was regarded as the best in the game by people outside of this board. ". There is a difference between those two statements, particularly given that your argument was in the context of comparing Law to Bailey.

I don't even care anymore what was said. Like I said, I made my peace with the subject a few posts back and it's dead as far as I'm concerned. I feel he should be there, but the people who made the list did not. Oh well. The earth keeps spinning. You're welcomed to keep going with it if you would like, but I'm done. Peace, sir.

 

[Patjew]

I think it just comes down to consistency and longevity.

 

[eagle eye]

Career 196 829 694 135 168 5.0 7 0 52 791 7
Career 150 671 600 71 153 2.0 7 0 43 428 4
G T S Ast PD sack ff rec int yds td

First one is Ty Law and second line is Champ Bailey. Now Bailey has only had ten seasons and Ty has racked up 14 at this stage. Ok Ty has lots more games but he is ahead in each category lifetime with the exception of FFs. Will Champ last another three seasons to catch up on him? He can pass him in solos if he completes another two seasons at a decent level but he won't pass him in overall tackles. He would need two seasons to pass him in PD's also and I don't think he will catch him in INTs, and Ty is miles ahead in yardage.

Ty was ahead of Champ on total tackles for the first four years of this decade. Champ was ahead in passes deflected in three of them four years but Ty was ahead two years and level one year in interceptions. The fact that Champ is a younger guy is in his favour no doubt as he has been more consistent over the last couple of years but Ty really was the master in the early part of the decade. I'll give Champ the years 04, 06 and 07 and he wins 08 but it was a bad year for both with Champ only managing 9 games and Ty even worse with only 7.

So I'm giving those four season to Ty Law and I'll give them a tie in 2005. So really there is nothing between them over the decade.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Career 196 829 694 135 168 5.0 7 0 52 791 7
Career 150 671 600 71 153 2.0 7 0 43 428 4
G T S Ast PD sack ff rec int yds td

First one is Ty Law and second line is Champ Bailey. Now Bailey has only had ten seasons and Ty has racked up 14 at this stage. Ok Ty has lots more games but he is ahead in each category lifetime with the exception of FFs. Will Champ last another three seasons to catch up on him? He can pass him in solos if he completes another two seasons at a decent level but he won't pass him in overall tackles. He would need two seasons to pass him in PD's also and I don't think he will catch him in INTs, and Ty is miles ahead in yardage.

Ty was ahead of Champ on total tackles for the first four years of this decade. Champ was ahead in passes deflected in three of them four years but Ty was ahead two years and level one year in interceptions. The fact that Champ is a younger guy is in his favour no doubt as he has been more consistent over the last couple of years but Ty really was the master in the early part of the decade. I'll give Champ the years 04, 06 and 07 and he wins 08 but it was a bad year for both with Champ only managing 9 games and Ty even worse with only 7.

So I'm giving those four season to Ty Law and I'll give them a tie in 2005. So really there is nothing between them over the decade.

I would suggest that cornerback is one of the most difficult positions to judge based on stats. I remember reading an article a few years ago discussing cornerback stats that made a strong case that having less tackles credited to a cornerback is a positive stat and that cornerbacks that have more tackles have a negative.

What it boils down to is that stats themselves only tell you so much and that cornerback stats in particular can be very hard to interpret. I trust observation (even by biased and flawed human beings) more than I do stats when dealing with cornerback evaluation.