Ty Law Question

[MoLewisrocks]

Fans and media can't tell, but coaches can. Law wasn't signed until August aof last year because other coaches were getting wise to him. Only Edwards was blind. And this year only one coach has interest, and that is our blind friend Herm.

Law wasn't signed until August of last year because he was still limping from an injury most didn't think he could play through. It's not so much that Herm is blind, or even stupid, it's that he's often desperate and he's also a former DB and left to their own devices the great ones alway want to freelance. Belichick was successful at getting Ty to play team defense without totally negating his legitimate ball hawking skills. Herm didn't have a clue how to coach that.

And this year at least two coaches have interest, one of whom is as far from blind as they get. I know you don't want him to be interested, but he is. He has always admired this players talent and work ethic and passion enough to overlook the fact that he's not perfect and can be maddeningly frustrating when it comes to publicly discussing his financial dealings...

 

[spacecrime]

I was unfair of me not to mention work ethic and also willingness to play hurt. And willingness to tutor young players. But I still think only one coach besdies the Pats were interested in him last year and this, and that was Herm.

Law wasn't signed until August of last year because he was still limping from an injury most didn't think he could play through. It's not so much that Herm is blind, or even stupid, it's that he's often desperate and he's also a former DB and left to their own devices the great ones alway want to freelance. Belichick was successful at getting Ty to play team defense without totally negating his legitimate ball hawking skills. Herm didn't have a clue how to coach that.

And this year at least two coaches have interest, one of whom is as far from blind as they get. I know you don't want him to be interested, but he is. He has always admired this players talent and work ethic and passion enough to overlook the fact that he's not perfect and can be maddeningly frustrating when it comes to publicly discussing his financial dealings...

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

Spacecrime: You make an excellent point about freelancing in general, and it is an overlooked phenomenon. In fact, one of the touchdowns that occurred in the Panthers superbowl was that Ty Law freelanced on the field, deliberately changing his responsibility to gamble, and it resulted in a touchdown. I read about it but can't remember which play it was. I think he actually gave bad advice to the secondary and changed the play call or something, so yeah, he freelances at times.

But it is irrelevant to the fact that the Pats are very likely to have already tried to sign Law. I also believe that the odds are more than 50% that he ends up a Patriot.

The reason teams didn't keep/re-sign him last year was the injury and the huge asking price.

 

[Ring 6]

I dont think a good gauge of Ty Laws value is how much interest there was in teams signing him when he was coming off a career threatening injury (and had yet to prove he could run full speed) and expected to be paid as if the injury didnt exist.
By the way, there were more teams talking to him last year, but none made an offer that ignored the injury except the Jets.

There have also been quite a few other teams interested in him this year including Arizona, Seattle and Tennessee.

To say Herman Edwards is the only NFL coach that thinks Law can play is a gross misrepresentation of the facts.

By the way, without Ty Law, including his style of play, we would not have won the SB in 2003. He may have been the best player on the team that year.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

Which is why his freelancing will be overlooked as I mentioned above.

 

[spacecrime]

To say Herman Edwards is the only NFL coach that thinks Law can play is a gross misrepresentation of the facts.

True. And I didn't mean to put it that way, if I did.

Here's what I should have said: Last year no HC thought enough to Ty to sign him to a contract until the middle of training camp. Only Herm was willing to pay him to play.

So far this year, no team thinks enough of his ability to pay him to play, and once again, only the self-same Herm Edwards is the one that might possibly sign him.

That's what I meant to say. Money talks. And for two years only Herm Edwards was interested in Ty. And he cut Ty after one year, don't forget.

All the talk about Ty signing with the Pats so far can be traced back to statements by Ty or one of the Postons. We didn't step up last year to pay him $6 mil (with only $1 mil guaranteed), so now we are suddnely hot to pay an older Ty $6 mil with all of it guaranteed?

The only real reason anyone has for guaranteeing him $6 mil this year is that we have the money. So let's spend it. Somewhere, anywhere. Spend it.

30 HC's think he isn't worth it, 31 if you count BB who didn't sign him last year or this. Only Herm wanted him last year and maybe this year.

 

[spacecrime]

a gross misrepresentation of the facts.

without Ty Law, including his style of play, we would not have won the SB in 2003. He may have been the best player on the team that year.

1. You don't know what would have happened. You really don't. No one does. What if's are for games played on paper. This is the thinking that said we would go 0-16 without Milloy in 2003.

2. Every offensive play the Panther made could have been a TD is someone hadn't tackled a ball carrier, hurried the passer, deflected a pass. Every TD scored by the Pats, every pass completed, every yard gained, was made possible by several people EACH play. Take away the production of any player and say his replacement wouldn't have done the job, and the Pats lose. We did not have Ty Law and 44 guys watching him play.

 

[kptmorgan04]

The question falls into two parts: how much should we pay for Ty? and, what else should we do with the money?

The second is the more important question.

Immediately, there's Graham, Koppen and Branch to deal with. I'd make keeping all three a priority over signing TL.

.

I completly agree that signing Branch, Graham and Koppen is more important IMO than brining in Ty for what would be the short term. I would love to bring Law in as well as extend these three, but dont see that happening. I would also prefer to rework some future money to this year instead of signing law which would allow money in the future to be used on FA's. I dont see the Pats not using the money in some way which has been tossed around by some.

 

[Ring 6]

1. You don't know what would have happened. You really don't. No one does. What if's are for games played on paper. This is the thinking that said we would go 0-16 without Milloy in 2003.

2. Every offensive play the Panther made could have been a TD is someone hadn't tackled a ball carrier, hurried the passer, deflected a pass. Every TD scored by the Pats, every pass completed, every yard gained, was made possible by several people EACH play. Take away the production of any player and say his replacement wouldn't have done the job, and the Pats lose. We did not have Ty Law and 44 guys watching him play.

Of course you are totally misrepresenting what my statement meant.

Law was a key player and made big plays in the 2003 SB run. I think its very easy to say we would not have won if we didnt have him in 2003. That doesn't mean he won singlehandedly, it means that his contributions were necessary for the result, such as 3 picks of Manning.
You could make the same statement about other players. We wouldnt have won that SB without Brady, or Harrison either, as they made key plays that wouldn't have been made by their replacements.

 

[Ring 6]

True. And I didn't mean to put it that way, if I did.

Here's what I should have said: Last year no HC thought enough to Ty to sign him to a contract until the middle of training camp. Only Herm was willing to pay him to play.

So far this year, no team thinks enough of his ability to pay him to play, and once again, only the self-same Herm Edwards is the one that might possibly sign him.

That's what I meant to say. Money talks. And for two years only Herm Edwards was interested in Ty. And he cut Ty after one year, don't forget.

All the talk about Ty signing with the Pats so far can be traced back to statements by Ty or one of the Postons. We didn't step up last year to pay him $6 mil (with only $1 mil guaranteed), so now we are suddnely hot to pay an older Ty $6 mil with all of it guaranteed?

The only real reason anyone has for guaranteeing him $6 mil this year is that we have the money. So let's spend it. Somewhere, anywhere. Spend it.

30 HC's think he isn't worth it, 31 if you count BB who didn't sign him last year or this. Only Herm wanted him last year and maybe this year.

I think you are way off the mark here.

The evidence that Law signed late and signed with the Jets is nowhere near proof of your conclusion that no one else wanted him.
Why wouldnt that mean that any free agent wasnt wanted by 31 other teams?
Law was ABSOLUTELY negotiating with other teams. Just like any other Free Agent he took the best offer.
To imply that he didnt get signed until late because he was unwanted is embarassing to your argument, because you know that he couldnt sign until he was rehabbed and could pass a physical, so it was IMPOSSIBLE for him to be signed early.

Secondly, you keep saying only Herman Edwards wants Law this year when there is proof that numerous other teams have talked with him. Why did Arizona, Seattle, Tennesse and of course the Patriots bring him in? Because they wanted to tell him they are one of 31 teams who dont want him?

Aparently you have some type of a grudge where Law is concerned. I dont know why all he did was contribute to 3 SB titles. But it has resulted in some pretty inane conclusions.
Not trying to give you a hard time here, but the bill of goods you are trying to sell have no validity at all.

 

[PATSNUTme]

My read on the KC situation is this. If Priest Holmes retires, that could give them enough money to sign Law.

If Holmes does not retire, then I don't think that they have the money to even come close to what would be needed to sign Law. Unless they cut a couple of guys and I don't see that happening.

 

[belichickaholic]

Ty Law is only about the money. Yeah, three other teams were interested in him, until they found out how much money he wants.

Only Herm Edwards was foolish enough to give him that money. 4 and 12, Where else could he have used that money? I'll bet belichick asked himself that very same question.

People here are upset with Adam for going to Indy for 10 million, while this guy runs to a division rival having already put something like 50 million in his bank account.

I don't get it! It just doesn't sit well with me.

But like Mo said, if belichick brings him back at least we know it will be at the right price.

 

[GoWesleyan]

This is probably a dodge of the question, but I WOULD be willing to overpay for Law, say $9 million for this year, IF he played like the old Ty Law. I doubt that he has it in him to be Ty Law of old at this point.

Say our offer is currently $6M and KC is at $7M... We have the cap room to pay much more - how about a deal that guarantees $6.5 and could potentially be $9.5, e.g. +$500K IF TY plays 15+ regular season games and is (#1 or #2 best cb based on some good metric) +500K for playoffs, +$500 for AFC Champ +$500 for SuperBowl Win, +1M for performance stats (starts and/or team leader in ints?) in postseason games.

...or something like that.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

A slight (~$1M or so) 2006 overpayment for Law would be OK given prior resolution of the Pats 2007 FA class signings. I'd like to see him back here.

Law is still waiting on the KC situation for a best offer. Don't forget, he & the pathetic Postons know that njuries to any one of 30 teams' starting corner in the 1st week of camp could resolve his employment situation quickly.

 

[smg93]

Ty Law is only about the money. Yeah, three other teams were interested in him, until they found out how much money he wants.

Only Herm Edwards was foolish enough to give him that money. 4 and 12, Where else could he have used that money? I'll bet belichick asked himself that very same question.

People here are upset with Adam for going to Indy for 10 million, while this guy runs to a division rival having already put something like 50 million in his bank account.

I don't get it! It just doesn't sit well with me.

But like Mo said, if belichick brings him back at least we know it will be at the right price.

4 and 12, sure blame the Jets problems all on Ty Law. He didn't get 50 million, he made in the neighborhood of 6 and that was after incentives. That's an extreme exaggeration and doesn't help any point you are trying to make. If Ty didn't play well enough last year, he wouldn't have made anywhere near 6. Give credit where credit is due.

6 million for a top caliber CB like Law is certainly within reason. Compare the statistics for the top 10 highest paid CB's in the game today and what he got from the Jets last year. Now look at those 10 names (9 minus Law) and how many of those guys would you rather have on your team rather than Ty strictly based on performance?

It may not sit well with you, and that statement on its own is perfectly fine. But if you're going to argue, then at least bring up valid points.

 

[patman52]

4 and 12, sure blame the Jets problems all on Ty Law. He didn't get 50 million, he made in the neighborhood of 6 and that was after incentives. That's an extreme exaggeration and doesn't help any point you are trying to make. If Ty didn't play well enough last year, he wouldn't have made anywhere near 6. Give credit where credit is due.

6 million for a top caliber CB like Law is certainly within reason. Compare the statistics for the top 10 highest paid CB's in the game today and what he got from the Jets last year. Now look at those 10 names (9 minus Law) and how many of those guys would you rather have on your team rather than Ty strictly based on performance?

It may not sit well with you, and that statement on its own is perfectly fine. But if you're going to argue, then at least bring up valid points.

He is right, only herm was willing to give him any signifigant money. His incentives were met by playing time and not performance, although he did make another million for making the probowl. (beauty pagent) Ty law is not a 6mill player anymore.. While some of the pass interfernce calls that went against him probally resulted from plays that he could not make due to being overweight which is Herm's fault and Law's.

Law for 3-4 mill ok anything more I rather bank the cap space for future years.

 

[smg93]

Bank the cap space for future years for what though? Isn't the point to win it this year? In my opinion, a superbowl run next season is a much likelier event with Ty Law in the fold. 6-8 million dollars this year and the year after does not break the bank in my view.

Performance or playing time bonuses as you have pointed out pushed his salary to the six million dollar range last year. Otherwise, IIRC he would have received mayble only a quarter to half of that. I don't agree at all that that constitutes significant money. But with that said, that was last year's Ty Law market value particularly because he was coming of a foot injury. This year is different. He played well, is considered in most circles as a top CB (and in some as the second best CB in the NFL). His new market value has changed and if its 6-8 million, I would still love to have him in a Pats uniform. We'll have one of the top QB's in Brady, DE's in Seymour, and CB's in Law all in one team. That's a pretty formidable lineup.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Pats have a chance to make history over the next couple of years. I think there is a decent chance we can go back to back again. Provided our younger offensive players develop...Watson,C.Jackson and Maroney.

We need some help on defense. I think Ty would be just what we need
on the defensive side of the ball. I like a troika of Law,Samuel and Hobbs.
With one being the nickel back. Still worried about ilb. But, don't forget
how late we picked up TW in 03. There is still time to make a move there.

Only the Packers of the 60's have won 5 out of 7. I don't think we are
mortgaging the future for what he is asking. It won't prevent the Pats
from keeping Branch,Graham and Koppen. Some of our def. players are
getting up there; Rodney,Tedy,Vrabel and Colvin. Don't see any replacements
for those guys on our current roster. So, I think we should go for it. With
a good finish to his career, Ty is bound for Canton. Would love to see him
hang it up in a Pats uniform. He was the MVP of Super Bowl XXXVI and his
3 int's against Gump(Manning) were spectacular in 03 AFC Championship
Game. I believe he lives in Miami area, so he can host team cookout at the
Super Bowl this year. It is in Miami isn't it?

 

[belichickaholic]

4 and 12, sure blame the Jets problems all on Ty Law. He didn't get 50 million, he made in the neighborhood of 6 and that was after incentives. That's an extreme exaggeration and doesn't help any point you are trying to make. If Ty didn't play well enough last year, he wouldn't have made anywhere near 6. Give credit where credit is due.

6 million for a top caliber CB like Law is certainly within reason. Compare the statistics for the top 10 highest paid CB's in the game today and what he got from the Jets last year. Now look at those 10 names (9 minus Law) and how many of those guys would you rather have on your team rather than Ty strictly based on performance?

It may not sit well with you, and that statement on its own is perfectly fine. But if you're going to argue, then at least bring up valid points.

With all due respect, I thought I did bring up some valid points.

I'm concerned about the effects of bringing a selfish, and greedy player into the Patriots locker room. What effect will it have on the younger players and the team chemistry.

IMHO, Ty Law is a player whose primary interest is padding his statistics so that he can get a bigger pay day. As evidenced by the fact that his stats jump significantly in contract years. (selfish)

He made almost 50 million dollars of Mr Krafts money. (and earned it, he WAS a great player) All that money, and still he wanted more. (greedy)

So he left the Pats/his friends, because of his greed, and then at the end of the year he had the audacity/arrogance to say that if he had stayed, they would have won the SB! He may as well have just spit on his former teammates/friends!

This team was and is built on the concepts of personal sacrifice and unselfishness. A willingness to do your job, even though other players might get more credit than you. A willingness to forgo your own personal stats, so that the team could prosper.

What kind of message is this, supposed role model, sending to these young players? "get your money, while the gettin is good fellas! forget about team concept, forget about personal sacrifice, forget about the organization, forget about the city and it's fans! Just get your money any way you can!"

You could say he just wants to be paid fairly, but IMHO that is untrue. If he wanted to be paid fairly, he would have already signed with someone. 32 general managers have not met his asking price, so rather than accepting what is truly fair, Ty Law is holding out for more.

So as a result, in the middle of August, in 90 degree heat, while his soon to be teammates are busting their humps, he'll be sitting in his 10 million dollar mansion on South Beach, hoping that some GM will do exactly what the title of this thread is suggesting. OVER PAY!

It's my opinion, the concerns are legitimate, the points are valid.

 

[smg93]

What kind of message is this, supposed role model, sending to these young players? "get your money, while the gettin is good fellas! forget about team concept, forget about personal sacrifice, forget about the organization, forget about the city and it's fans! Just get your money any way you can!"

You could say he just wants to be paid fairly, but IMHO that is untrue. If he wanted to be paid fairly, he would have already signed with someone. 32 general managers have not met his asking price, so rather than accepting what is truly fair, Ty Law is holding out for more.

So this is probably what you would have thought of Richard Seymour if he signed with somebody else then? Seymour is one of the best in this league at his position and he certainly got paid like one didn't he. In fact, wasn't he the one who held out last year to try and make a point? If all of what you said applies to Ty Law than it should apply to Seymour also. Law is also regarded as one of the best in his postion, so why shouldn't he get paid that high just as Seymour did???

You're so against Law and his "selfishness", but didn't Seymour get a monster contract that makes him one of the highest paid football players in his position as well? I never saw you complain about Seymour's selfishness. Why?

Doesn't Seymour's hold out last year plus the huge contract he signed this year send the wrong message to young players too? Oh wait, I guess it did didn't it. That's why Deion Branch is currently holding out by not attending practices and Team meetings.

I don't really remember, but did Ty Law ever hold out for more money??? I don't think he ever did. He played out all the years in his contract and then he became a Free Agent. Nothing wrong with that. "Hold Out" by the way means that a person is under contract (as Seymour and Branch were/are) and he deliberately missed practices and team meetings just to gripe about salary demands.

The Ty Law "hold out" you speak so much about is his and every other players right as a Free Agent. He doesn't have to attend practices now or anything like that because he is not under contract by any team! And he certainly shouldn't be forced to sign with any one team either. That's just totally ridiculous and extremely mis informed.

You really should get your facts straight first. For instance, to answer one of your questions on the first message you wrote in this thread: No, we have not won a SB without him.