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Ty Law on ESPN: Pats made big mistake gutting team of SB veterans


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For once, I don't think any NE fan was a fan of Ty Law the great guy as they were Ty Law the Patriots. Tough sob? Check. Grest, clutch, dependable player? Check. Inflated ego, trouble issues? Check.

He acts like an ass when ever he opens his mouth but damn I wish he were still in uniform.
 
No offense but, in context of this being a reply to my post, I have no idea what you're talking about.
Make up your mind as who you want to blame and where the Patriots are at. Simple.
 
Make up your mind as who you want to blame and where the Patriots are at. Simple.

Ok, so your response had nothing to do with what I was actually posting and was just a drive-by comment. Got it. I wasn't sure where you were going at first.
 
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Ok, so your response had nothing to do with what I was actually posting and was just a drive-by comment. Got it. I wasn't sure where you were going at first.
I probably should have elaborated that after my initial point I agreed with your first up commentary.
 
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Revisionist history.

Ty Law was a legitimate question mark during the 2005 off season. That foot injury he suffered in Pittsburgh was career threatening. The "point of emphasis" pass interference rule was projected to impact Law's game in particular. Law was considered a major risk, that's why Herm only brought him in on a 1 year deal. He wasn't going to get paid by anybody at that point.

If Law is pissed that he wasn't extended after 2003 it's his fault for not understanding that Belichick just wasn't going to do business that way.

actually, the jets brought him in on a 7 year/50M deal that paid 28M in the first 3 years. After a 10 INT / All pro season, they cut him.

the money has nothing to do with his feelings towards the pats. I think BB got under his skin.
 
Ty was on my s*** list for a while, defecting to the Jets and all, but note that he attends Pats games @ Gillette with his kids. Saw him & Harrison sharing a limo with their kids last year. Ty's comments, as many have posted here,aren't vicious and really different than the subtext implied by Brady's comments that younger players need to step up and exhibit leadership. Who could disagree with the fact of a 2009 leadership vacuum? The Pats underwent leadership turnover from age and some mistakes in FA attitudes & contributions by BB who is still human despite his many well deserved rings.
 
Law is dead right. The organization ditched all of its Super Bowl veterans because they would rather spend the money on unproven rookies. Most of which have proven to be far worse than their predecessors.
 
does gutted mean when their old and washedup/slowed down like 75% of em
 
BB is following a master plan, or philosophy about team building, where letting people go a year early is better than a year late, and your team needs a strong middle class of players rather than handful of stars, ect, ect..

BB sometimes does things a certain way which is hard to understand from a typical 'me first' player's POV. I think for instance the sudden release of Milloy in 2003 actually allowed Rodney to truly take over that defense. Seymour is unfortunately not an effective pass rusher anymore so I don't know how much further he alone would have got the defense in the playoffs.

If anything I think BB may have strayed from his own philosophy in trying to get too much out of some of our favorite vets instead of inserting the occassional young buck into the line-up.
 
Does BSPN ever get tired of bashing the Pats? Is there any other team that they go after former players of to get more sound bites like this?

How about the big mistake the Pats made giving Ty a big contract after his record 9 interceptions in a single season, only to see him get just one the following year?

Tell you what, let's just fire Belichick and replace him with Ty, it's obvious which of those two knows more about running a team.

I loved Ty when he was here until he made that stupid statement about feeding his family.
 
I admit I didn't read all the posts before I post this, so sorry to be redundant. I think Law looks petty here for these comments. Is he saying this because they dumped Vinatieri, McGinest, Samuel, Vrabel, etc. or that they dumped him?

I think the only guys you can make a strong argument that the Pats made a mistake on letting go are Samuel and Seymour. All the rest, I could argue the Pats let them go at the right time.
 
I admit I didn't read all the posts before I post this, so sorry to be redundant. I think Law looks petty here for these comments. Is he saying this because they dumped Vinatieri, McGinest, Samuel, Vrabel, etc. or that they dumped him?

I think the only guys you can make a strong argument that the Pats made a mistake on letting go are Samuel and Seymour. All the rest, I could argue the Pats let them go at the right time.

In the long term, I dont think letting Samuel nor Seymour leave are mistakes. Granted we've had piss poor corners, but Samuel wanted money that would make Oakland blush. And the glaring gaps in his play have now come to light.

Seymour isnt what he was 2-3 years ago. Again, is it the system or the body that shows signs of decline?
 
Ty Law, organizational guru extraordinaire... :bricks:

Opinions are like armpits, everyone has a couple and most of them stink...
 
Great defenses are not forever

Harrison
Vrabel
Seymour
Washington
Bruschi
Law

Not one of them has been replaced with an equal talent player or upgrade.

I think the fact that Bruschi, Harrison, Vrabel, and (sort of) Law & Seymour all got old at the same time tells us that the 2001-2004 Patriots caught lightning in a bottle with an amazing convergence of elite defensive players in their prime, all on our team at the same time. As I watch Three Games to Glory I am constantly reminded that we won the Super Bowls with our defense (if I had to pick just one between offense and defense).
 
Re: Great defenses are not forever

I think the fact that Bruschi, Harrison, Vrabel, and (sort of) Law & Seymour all got old at the same time tells us that the 2001-2004 Patriots caught lightning in a bottle with an amazing convergence of elite defensive players in their prime, all on our team at the same time. As I watch Three Games to Glory I am constantly reminded that we won the Super Bowls with our defense (if I had to pick just one between offense and defense).

Not to mention the cap.
We built the dynasty during a capped era.
We had the most talent in the NFL with the same cap as everyone else.
In other words our talent exceeded its cost by more than any other team, and by quite an amount considering we won 3 of 4 SBs and went 34-4 in 2 years.
On March 1, 2005 it was a mathematical impossibility that we could retain our players OR replace them with equal talent. They were more talented than their cost. The ones we kept now took up more of the cap so the ones that we needed to replace had to be replaced not only with the cap room that couldn't possibly find an equal player, but actually with less than that because we gave raises to players we kept. (Brady, Vrabel, Light, Harrison, Seymour, Warren come to mind)

To expect that we could have possilby replaced them with equal talent is to either ignore the cap and our status under it. (It really is an incontoverible fact that the best team in a capped league cannot retain its talent or replace it equally within the cap) Or drafting at or near the end of each round we would have had to draft players that could step in, start and be good enough for the most talented team in the NFL to not regress. Again, impossible, an average team drafting in the middle of each round is unlikely to improve solely with the draft replacing their departures.

The bottom line, IMO, was that it was impossible for us to not decline from 2005 on. The control of the decline was the issue, not its prevention.
In hindsight, I think that BB employed a strategy of getting great at some things to cover the overall gradual decline (ie the passing offense in 2007) that it is remarkable how close he kept us to the top (literally a play away from a ring in 06 and 07 and arguably 08 if that play were the Brady injury) and now we are clearly (IMO) on the other side of the equation where we are enhancing the talent base.

But back to the original point, it was unrealitic to expect we could keep those players or replace them with equal players in the short term.
It would appear that we potentially have/are replacing most with Mayo, Spikes, Cunningham, Meriwhether, Chung, McCourty, Butler, Brace, etc.

If those 8 players or some of those 8 players are the nucleus of one of the best defenses in the NFL over the next 5-7 years, then we actually did replace everyone, it just wasnt reasonable to expect it to happen more quickly than this.
 
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Re: Great defenses are not forever

I think the fact that Bruschi, Harrison, Vrabel, and (sort of) Law & Seymour all got old at the same time tells us that the 2001-2004 Patriots caught lightning in a bottle with an amazing convergence of elite defensive players in their prime, all on our team at the same time. As I watch Three Games to Glory I am constantly reminded that we won the Super Bowls with our defense (if I had to pick just one between offense and defense).

Well, Seymour didn't get old, but I see where you're coming from. It's tough when you're trying to replace guys who are NFL HOFers and/or team HOFers at multiple positions. It's even tougher when some of the guys you bring in as replacements/help suffer major or frequent injuries.

I'll leave it at that, in the interest of letting sleeping dogs lie.
 
Your thesis is correct. But Belichcick is cooking up another awesome Defense in front of our very eyes, while still producing winning seasons.

Belichick is putting the finishing touches on the future repast, even now. Some ingredients have been simmering for a few years, but the major roast went into the Oven in 2009 and seems to be wafting enticing aromas. The final baste and barbecue sauce has been added, and into the Oven it will go for 2010.

A gravy and many a fine course of vegetables has been waiitng on the stovetop and a flavor of a fine Wine with a very good Vintage from California via Michigan sits breathing, awaiting the rest of the repast, to be ready.
 
Your thesis is correct. But Belichcick is cooking up another awesome Defense in front of our very eyes, while still producing winning seasons.

Belichick is putting the finishing touches on the future repast, even now. Some ingredients have been simmering for a few years, but the major roast went into the Oven in 2009 and seems to be wafting enticing aromas. The final baste and barbecue sauce has been added, and into the Oven it will go for 2010.

A gravy and many a fine course of vegetables has been waiitng on the stovetop and a flavor of a fine Wine with a very good Vintage from California via Michigan sits breathing, awaiting the rest of the repast, to be ready.

I think you might be jumping the gun when you say BB is, "cooking up another awesome defense". The RDE spot is still very much a question mark at least until we get into the preseason and get a chance to see what that slew of bodies can do. In the LB corps, the only two guys who we know for a fact that we can depend on are Mayo and TBC. One of those guys should only see the majority of his snaps on third down. In the secondary, Bodden is back and is a solid corner. I expect Butler to improve from his rookie season (not unreasonable). Wilhite is eh and Wheatley is injury prone. We don't know what sort of product we're getting with McCourty yet (though it looks promising). Meriweather took another step forward, but there are still very much a few aspects of his game that he can improve on. Same with Chung who is still an unproven commodity at this point. Sanders is good veteran depth and McGowan took a step back at the end of the season last year from where he started. By my count, that's at least six positions on the defense in which we don't know what we'll get.

I'm optimistic and hoping for the best. But I think we should hold off on setting our expectations too high for that unit of the team.
 
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