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Two words that will drive me crazy this week!

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PATSNUTme, Apr 27, 2007.

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  1. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    I love the draft. I will spend the next two days going over every pick and be wasted (Not drunk or on drugs) by Sunday evening. Then I'll start looking at the UDFA's.

    The words that will drive me nuts this weekend is "reach" and "value". This has been brought to us by draft guru's and draftniks parroting them. Just because a player is not on their "boards" at a certain ranking, doesn't mean that teams don't have them ranked differently.

    Would Brady or AD been a "reach" if drafted in teh second round instead of the 6th? Would Marcus Colson been a "reach" and not a good "value" last year if he was drafted in the 3rd round instead of the 7th?

    I spend a lot of time and some money on the draft every year. Yet, I do understand that I know less than 20% about players than Pioli and his staff should and do know. We are drafting football players to play football, not "values".

    Had to get that off my chest- thank you very much.
  2. Pat the Pats Fan

    Pat the Pats Fan Rookie

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    Nut, me too,

    Is a player a reach or a value if he can throw 80 yards through the uprights from one knee? Is a player a reach or a value if he can press 38 times?

    I don't know the answer to either, but I am sure some "expert" will link the words to the deeds...


    Have a good weekend. This is like Christmas morning to me......
  3. zippo59

    zippo59 Rookie

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    Another term is "steal." These are all draft clichezs that have practically lost their meaning at this point.
  4. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Yes, that implies that the other 31 teams don't know what they are doing. I'll wait until I see the guy actrually play NFL football before I consider him a steal.
  5. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    I know how much you like to have value in your posts, but I fear you are reaching for this topic. Maybe you could treat this as a developmental project, and find another topic that is more of a lock. Perhaps you could even trade this topic for one you know we will need next year. Future consderations are often useful, also. But remember to pick a top choice--we don't want a JAF (Just Another Forum).

  6. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    :rofl: I guess my stock was falling when I started this thread.
  7. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

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    Whitner was considered a reach last year but he more than earned his value for Buffalo. So it also depends on how the player fits into the system.
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2007
  8. RayClay

    RayClay On the Roster

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    #75 Jersey

    Very good post. The point of the draft is to help your team, not to have the best draft board.

    The Pats target players and try to select them at the right position. If they can only get "their" player at a little higher slot, that's the right move.

    A real "reach" is selecting a player your not sure about because of reputation or speed/strength. I think we've seen that.
  9. RayClay

    RayClay On the Roster

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    #75 Jersey

    With all the low comp picks around, can the Pats use these to maneuver? Seems like second day picks are so plentiful around the league they wouldn't have much value.
  10. workhorse

    workhorse Rookie

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    Sure it's not "Indianapolis" and "Colts" or "Peyton" and "Manning"? Oh wait, you said this weekend, not all year. :D
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2007
  11. primetime

    primetime Rookie

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    #18 Jersey

    Randy and Moss?
  12. RayClay

    RayClay On the Roster

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    #75 Jersey

    So how many new holes in that defense to fill?

    Good job patching last year, but the levees gonna break some day.
  13. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Well, congrats, you guys finally did it!! Good for you. God knows you've been knocking on the door long enough. The fates turned your way last time.


    Now, back to reality: Pats go for #4 in February 2008.



    //
  14. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Actually, good post, P'Nut.

    As always, the draft is always about a 60-40 deal: we can know about 60% about a player from his college and workout stats, off-field life, etc. Then, there is the transition to the big leagues, where competition and other factors tend to squeeze the player in ways not seen before -- take away another 25% of "known quantity/quality". Finally, there is the health/injury factor: no one knows who may have a mishap or other twist of fate -- take away the final 15% of "knowns". Result: guys like BB and Pioli, who eat, sleep, and drink football as their life -- and with a certain wisdom graced from somewhere -- so we put it into their hands for the final mold.

    I wouldn't trade places with any other team-backer in the NFL.

    Do it, Pats !!!!

    //
  15. onegameatatime

    onegameatatime Rookie

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    I think "value" makes some sense (Wilfork), but "reach" often does not. Reach is the term used when you take a guy who the CONSENSUS of pundits (and many bozos) think will be in a certain place. But the consensus obscures a wide range of opinions. Compare this to free agency -- the consensus could say a person will be paid X, but the player will often get what the top team is willing to offer.

    Take the Mankins case. NOBODY expected that pick, and some said it was a reach because "the consensus" had him going in the low second or third round. Maybe some teams had him as a 4th rounder. But what if 3 others teams really liked him and were thinking of using a middle or even high second round. The consensus does not really matter.

    In some cases (not Mankins), some teams will outright reject a guy for character or injury.

    Maybe the Pats could have traded down and maybe not. It's nice that BB is secure enough to do it, and he has the media scared enough that they do not like to question him.

    If you love the guy, go for it. Not to say take a 6th rounder in the 2nd, but every time you let a guy you really like pass, you run the risk of losing something you wanted.
  16. workhorse

    workhorse Rookie

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    Really only one hole to fill, defesive tackle. They need to address depth on D, but really only one hole.
  17. Fixit

    Fixit Rookie

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    Thanks to Steve Young, I may never want to hear the word "aptitude" again.
  18. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    We didn't "reach" for Meriweather and we got our "value.

    Wish I could say the sam for the #28 trade.:mad: We'll see.
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