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Two way Childress - a keeper?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by JR4, Jun 24, 2006.

  1. JR4

    JR4 In the Starting Line-up PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Childress is probably fighting for the 5th WR spot (doubt PATs keep 6 )

    Branch ( he's not sitting out) , Jackson, Caldwell and Brown I see as
    locking up first WR roster slots. That mean Childress will probably be competing for 5th WR.

    Here is article where he suggest why he should be the one.
    Any agreement?

    http://kennebecjournal.mainetoday.com/sports/stories/2868207.shtml
  2. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    I think everyone was impressed with Childress last season and the expectation is that he'll compete and win the 5th spot.

    Competition is the key word. Childress needs to build on last year, not slip back, while the other WRs currently on the roster (who are probably destined for the practice squad at best) could also surprise.

    Then factor in a likely veteran WR signing once camps begin their cuts and you've got a very fluid situation. But I'd be in favor of finding a spot for Childress no matter what given what I've seen thus far.
  3. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! Rookie

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    I won't believe he makes the roster as the #5 until it happens, in the meantime, I really think a veteran WR will become available thru a trade or somehow. It could be the last day of training camp, and I will still be waiting for the Pats to bring somebody in, that's they way they are each year.

    I like Childress, but he is going to have to be special to fit in with the guys ahead of him. I've had my heart set on a lot of other guys that never made the team, it is so rare! Anybody remember Rodney Trafford at TE, or the tall Ivy League guy at WR that went to NFL Europe with Rohan Davey?
  4. rookBoston

    rookBoston Rookie

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    Guys ahead of him? There is no one ahead of him on the roster. The fact that he saw snaps on the field during the season last year puts him miles ahead of anyone else.

    Personally, I'm expecting BB/SP to sign David Patten, if/when the Skins cut him.
  5. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Good article, thanks for the post JR.

    Bam is in the mix, injuries always have an impact in Training Camp, so veterans brought in or not, the situation is fluid as the roster develops. Stone seems to be Bam's primary competition for 5th WR, both he and Bam have been reported taking Special Teams' reps. This is where Bam's CB play starts looking better for him. One of the nice things here, Bam has a another year of eligibility on the Practice Squad.

    5 rings, you mean Chas Gentsner (sp?) - many of us were pulling for him in his underdog role.
  6. arrellbee

    arrellbee Rookie

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    Gessner was 6'4" and 215# - a big receiver dude. He made it to the final cut - two days past David Terrell. I was pulling for him. Looks like he's hooked on with Tampa Bay at this point.

    He had some good results in NFLE, but we know that doesn't necessarily translate to much as far as the NFL goes.
  7. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! Rookie

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    RookBoston:

    Guys AHEAD of Bam: Branch, Brown, Jackson, Caldwell.

    I repeat: The Pats are VERY likely to bring in a vet, and Bam will have to be SPECIAL in order to be considered worth keeping along with those other guys.

    Guys at other positions that might make it difficult for Bam to be on the final 53 man roster: Mills, Thomas, Pass, Evans

    Bam is not just in competition with WR, he is in competition to have a role on the team on the 53 man roster, and the Pats will only keep the BEST out of the skill players.
  8. JR4

    JR4 In the Starting Line-up PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't understand what you're saying here. If Childress could make the team
    for a role OTHER than WR then ... you are right. But if he makes the team
    as a WR then his competition is from other WRs not from TE or DBs or RBs ... etc.
  9. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! Rookie

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    What I am saying is that the best 53 men will end up on the roster. If Bam is good enough to be the 5th wideout but they have to decide between keeping Mills, who has a college record for receptions, as a fourth tight end, or keeping Bam as the 5th wide receiver; in order to complete the 53 man roster, than one of those guys gets cut. Or maybe they want to keep Pass and Evans at running back, and this fills up the 53 man roster instead of the fifth wideout, because they prefer to keep the extra running back. This happens every season.

    Why didn't Chas Gessner make the team, or Rodney Trafford? Both those guys had as much upside as Bam. There were not enough spots on the 53 man roster to keep everybody. There is no rule that the Pats always keep five wideouts, it is not set in stone. They will keep the top 53 players, in groupings that most benefit the team.

    Do you really think Bam is even in competition with the guys ahead of him? Do you think they are going to cut Branch in order to keep BAM? I think he is in competition with the last couple guys on the roster, to prove he has value to the team. This is what happens EVERY YEAR. It's not something new I invented just now. When Belichick talks about players needing to create a role for themselves in order to make the team in training camp, he is referring to being more that just a guy who plays a position, he is talking about you have to bring something SPECIAL to the situation that gives you more value than other back-ups.

    Go and add up all our rookies at skill positions and you will find that there are a few players who will have to be real good to make the 53 man roster, not just Bam. They are more likely to keep a extra RB or TE than an undrafted WR. Especially when they bring in another veteran WR. In my opinion! :D
  10. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! Rookie

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    On a different thread, Patsox lists the Offense final roster. His assumption is that Evans doesn't have enough value to even make the team, and he puts Mills in with the RB, which appears to not be accurate, but anyway, that means that Pass or Mills gets cut. He also has a vet like Patten pencilled in to compete with Bam for a #5 wideout spot.

    What if the team decides they want to keep Pass AND Mills. It will be because those guys have more value in their role on the team than somebody like Bam, who is also fighting for a last position on the roster, just like Pass and Mills.
  11. arrellbee

    arrellbee Rookie

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    I think you sort of have the right idea but are applying it a little too much. Consider that there are probably a minimum number of players that Belichick feels are needed at a particular position just as a matter of depth and some protection against injury (whether it is one or a few weeks or a season ending IR). It is highly unlikely, for example, that Belichick would go with only 4 WR. The tradeoffs for best player would be amongst, to make ONE example: a 6th WR, a 7th or (stretching it) 8th RB/TE, a 9th or 10th LB, a 9th OL, an 8th DL, a 10th or 11th DB. So, IF Belichick hasn't decided that this year he needs one of those marginal positions for depth and injury purposes, that leaves 4 roster slots to fill from 9 possible slots available. I think, in the heat of fans valuing and advocating that a particular player just HAS to be included in one of those 4 slots, it's easy to lose track of the fact that there are basically only those 4 swing slots. And, as has been observed in many threads and posts and in the media, special teams contribution is most likely the determining factor on who gets those 4 slots rather than that the player is going to make an everyday contribution in that position. Also something that isn't discussed much but has a very significant bearing on even who gets special teams slots - there are MANY different roles on special teams. For example, a LB type may be somewhat of a tradeoff with a DB type in certain roles on the special teams - but NOT all roles. Some have to be filled with a heavier LB type and some have to be filled by the faster DB. I think folks lose sight of the fact that a 53 man roster is actually quite tight for carrying as many players as you might want in each position. Here's the ONE example of what I talked about above:

    CB/S ...9 + 1 or 2
    LB .......8 + 1 or 2
    DL .......7 + 1
    QB ......3
    RB/TE .6 + 1 or 2
    WR .....5 + 1
    OL ......8 + 1
    K ........1
    P ........1
    LS...... 1

    So, as I mentioned in my comments, this example would say that the base roster would be 49 players and there would be 4 slots available from amongst 9 possible marginal slots that the team might want to use.


    Some pretty tough tradeoffs. So perhaps, in discussing a particular player that HAS to make the roster, it might be better context to talk about which other 3 players will make the roster with him but MORE IMPORTANTLY which 5 marginal positions and particular players you feel Belichick will make the tradeoff against this year.

    My own guess at this point?
    I think the 4 slots will likely be used for:
    10th and 11th CB/S ........(11th slot will be ST slot that was 10th LB spot in the past)
    9th LB ...........................(however, Belichick seems to like to carry 10 LB, so a 10th LB could take place of 11th DB)
    7th RB/TE

    Note also that my guess leaves the OL at 8, which is pretty thin, especially with another 2 rookies vying for spots. TOUGH tradeoffs.
  12. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! Rookie

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    I agree that my point can go too far, but to narrow it down, let me just say that I feel that Bam is trying to establish his value as a role player, i.e. special teams, back-up WR, in comparison to other players trying to find a role, like Mills. I don't think he is likely to out-compete anyone STRICTLY as a WR, but rather as a role player with multiple functions.

    I used to cheer for these kind of guys, but I hate when they get cut so now I wait until they actually make the final roster before getting excited about them. I view Bam's chances of making the roster as almost entirely dependent on whether Bioli brings in a veteran player at WR, and slightly dependent on how much of a role he establishes at the bottom of the roster.
  13. JR4

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    If you are saying there will ONLY be 4 WR slots, for what ever reason,
    then you are right Childress if he makes the roster will have to compete
    with other non WR players. This assumes the first 4 WR slots are
    locks based on who is on the roster now.

    If you admit there will be at least 5 WR slots filled then Childress competes
    with other WRs for that last WR slot.

    What I fail to see is how there will only be 4 WR slots. I guess that is
    possible but to me that is among those things not worth considering.
    So to me I only see Childress competing with other WRs.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 4, 2005
  14. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Could we keep 4 WR's and 4 TE's? I suppose so, if the returner is a non-receiver. Remember, the 5th-7th wide receivers would be on the Practice Squad. Personally, I expect that the returners will be receivers and running backs, as they usually are.
    --------------------------------------------
  15. arrellbee

    arrellbee Rookie

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    You make a good point that is sometimes missed. If Belichick feels that a practice squad eligible player can be a reasonable replacement in case of injury AND the player is more likely than not to survive on the practice squad without being snatched by another team, that can be an alternative to carrying another player on the 53 man roster to begin with.
  16. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My four are 9th OL, Mills, 4th RB, and either a 10th DB or a 9th LB.
    We argued the 9th OL and Mills many times. I certainly hope that we do both. They are needed for backup and development.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    DO WE NEED NINE LINEBACKERS
    Seven are need to play the position.
    Colvin,Bruschi,Beisel,Vrabel,Banta-Cain,Claridge,Mincey

    DO WE NEED TEN DEFENSIVE BACKS
    Eight are need to play the position.
    Samuel,Hobbs,Gay,Warfield/C.Scott
    Harrison,Wilson,Hawkins,Sanders

    DO WE NEED A FOURTH RUNNING BACK
    Given the injury histories, I would think yes.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    WHICH FOUR SPECIAL TEAMERS DO WE KEEP?
    Pass, Izzo, Mitchell,Jones, Guss Scott, Davis
    My four are the first four.

    We end up losing the ninth "linebacker", with Izzo or Davis.

  17. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! Rookie

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    JR4:

    My assumptions are all based on the fact that I think the Pats will bring in another WR, and even if they don't, I am just not convinced like you are that the Pats will carry 5 WRs 'just because'. I fully expect that they will keep Mills, and perhaps Pass. They might even want to keep Evans, based on his camp. He seems to have a decent chance of creating a role, if he can play special teams. That takes up a lot of room on the 53 man roster unless you cut the amount of O-Linemen, which is riskier than not having Bam on the roster. As MgTeich points out, we can carry WR depth on the practice squad. Anyone drafted as high as Mills would be poached from our waiver wire. Even Cedric Cobbs, who we rightly gave up on, is now a Bronco. I doubt Bam would be in this great demand, and might be sitting at home if we needed him badly enough.

    Too make a long story short, I think Bam's chances are slim to make the roster, and if he does, it won't be from outcompeting the four guys ahead of him on the roster at WR. It will be from being more valueable than the other two or three guys competing for the final roster opening on the 53 man roster.
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2006
  18. JR4

    JR4 In the Starting Line-up PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well that's where we differ. I believe WR's are not TE. PATs will cary 5 WR,
    IMO, not "just because" but because of past injury history of PATs WR for one big reason.

    We've got Brown and Branch who have been injured and missed time
    and now they have Caldwell, known to be injured often. How can PATs
    even consider going into a full season with just 4 WRs? That just makes
    no sense to me. Even if PATs bring in another WR, Childress will still be
    competing for the 5th WR position. IMO.

    BTW, you can not count on any PS player being available when you need them.
    Can you really see BB leaving to chance his 5th good WR on the PS?
  19. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! Rookie

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    I'll be looking for a veteran to round out the 5th WR spot.....
  20. primetime

    primetime Rookie

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    #18 Jersey

    I'm not sure who on the free agent market is worth bringing in before Bam. He has been around for a year, knows the system, and Belichick brought him onto the roster, showing that he feels there must be some promise to the kid. With him playing two-ways, it gives some more versatility.

    Frankly, I'd rather have a project for that 5th receiver, and Bam fits the bill. If there's an injury, fine, sign someone else (from the slim pickings, though camp cuts might help). He won't be playing/dressed much anyways.

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