Welcome to PatsFans.com

Two true (I think) statements about Patriot WRs

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by MagicMarker, May 19, 2007.

  1. MagicMarker

    MagicMarker Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    1. Randy Moss signed a deeply discounted deal to come to the Patriots
    2. Randy Moss has one of the highest cap numbers of any wide receiver in Patriots history. Troy Brown had a $3.2 million cap number a couple of years ago, but $2.4 million of it was signing bonus proration.

    The Patriots don't put a a high value on the position. What chance do you think there is that Moss or Stallworth will be here in 2008?
    Last edited: May 19, 2007
  2. Phoenix111

    Phoenix111 Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2007
    Messages:
    440
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I would doubt that they would bring Moss back next year, pending how far into the playoffs they go. However lets say Stalworth has a great year and out of the three(Washington, Moss, Stalworth) he was the one they wished to hold onto. The problem is without Moss opposite, he would probably not be able to duplicate such a season in 2008. Then the patriots are stuck with less of a Stalworth than the year before for a lot more money.
  3. slash83

    slash83 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Messages:
    3,210
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0

    I actually think Moss has a good chance to come back next year, heres my reason, If he has a good year with no problems on and off the feild I think the Patriots would consider bringing him back especially if hes still willing to play for about 3-5 million a year with added incentives. I also think Moss would actually be cool with it cause his career is winding down, hes playing with the best qb in the league, and he has the best chance to win a SB here in New England. Also if the Patriots decide to pick up the option on Stallworth next year I think its only around 5 million.

    I think both receivers have a good shot at being back with the team next year, I doubt the front office would tease Brady with all these weapons then after one year take them away. Id be ticked as im sure Brady would be 2...
  4. fgssand

    fgssand PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Messages:
    4,779
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +34 / 0 / -1

    #17 Jersey

    While there are many reasons why they very well may not be back.....a solid case can also be made for Stallworth and/or Randy Moss to return as well.

    I agree with some of your points, but ultimately, it all depends on the successes they have this year coupled with the attitude of wanting to stay and play with a winner. Who knows if this season is to be a bridge to a larger contract for either of them or not. Should they both have good seasons and decide to go for a large contract elsewhere, I would be cool with that as feeding ones family should never be faulted. Staying here for a few years would also be pretty cool - especially if they have the kind of season we all hope.

    The anticipation of this upcoming season is simply amazing this year, almost like no other I can ever remember, and that includes the off season between 03 and 04 as we went for the record breaking winning streak and Cory Dillon had just come onto the scene.
  5. jbb9s

    jbb9s Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2006
    Messages:
    2,160
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    Randy Moss came here to rejuvinate his career so that he can get one more conract to retire on. I think he figured he could come here, put up great numbers and get that high dollar deal in 08 from a team like the Redskins. The Patriots will not pay that type of money for a wide out and this is clear from the Branch departure.


    Hopefully Chad Jackson will be ready to contribute in 08 to the expectations that come with being the second highest rated wide out in the draft last year.
  6. Fantasic4x50x54x59x55

    Fantasic4x50x54x59x55 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2006
    Messages:
    238
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I believe it all depends on how Washington and Jackson progress.. If both step up big in 07 and show growth/maturity in 08...maybe we hold onto moss, maybe we hold on to stallworth...but def not both. If one does progress and get it and the other doesn't, they DEF hold onto to one or the other..alot factors into this..next seasons FA/Draft Class..Welker-Watson-Thomas-Maroney's production..

    My opinion Moss stays-Stallworth goes..This is Moss's beggining of the end stage of his career and if everything goes well and we are champs I can see him signing a cap friendly deal to close out here or atleast hes done playing..and HOPEFULLY Jackson-Washtington both progress

    I think Stallworth is in it for the money, an he knows this is prob his last shot to catapult himself into the bank..so he will play his heart out this season and try to score big next...not to knock the guy at all..but who knows both these guys might fall inlove with actually winning in the late winter that they both stick around and live the patriot way...

    P.S--welker still kicks *****:rocker:
  7. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    9,898
    Likes Received:
    47
    Ratings:
    +105 / 2 / -3


    Generally I'd say you're correct - but Moss knows that the biggest knock against him in getting the next big contract is not his skills, but his work ethics and attitude.

    That's what he needs to turnaround - he knows this is not the place for him to catch 85-100 passes. He doesn't need to - though a good YPC is going to be critical for him to get a next big contract.

    By the way - at his cap hit and salary I don't think Moss was going to be kept by the Raiders - so its not quite accurate to say he took a salary cut from his $9 million - he wasn't going to get that from any team.

    As far as who is back after next season, I'm content to let them all playout their current contracts and let the chips fall where they may. It might be Stallworth or Moss - or an unknown FA, or from within who takes over as the deep threat.

    After this offseason though I don't think anyone can say that BB doesn't view WR as a priority (at least a legitimate deep threat) in terms of how it affects the offense.
  8. Patriotic Fervor

    Patriotic Fervor Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    1,421
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    These are good points.

    Personally, I think if they both produce as hoped and expected, the team finds a way to keep them both. For my money (a-hem!) the real question mark is Washington. It has to be a lot of pressure on the guy dealing with this situation. For him, it is most definitely either/or.

    As with you, and lots of people here, I think it's a case of "hope springs eternal" for Chad Jackson. But given the power-laden line up at wide receiver this season, I don't see a lot of reps for the kid. They may try and stash him on one list or another (it's simply way too early to give up on the kid), but unless he's a breakout phenom in training camp, I just can't see it. Especially if Troy Brown comes aboard for one last go-around.
  9. g-fresh

    g-fresh Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2006
    Messages:
    301
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    If they are both successful and draw a lot of interest from other teams then there is little chance we keep both. I think that Moss is more likely to stay assuming he agrees to a reasonable cap number, as he is a student of the game and I think he appreciates the chance to go down as one of the best if he stays with the Pat's and helps to win superbowls.

    I don't get the impression that Stallworth signed for the same reasons, I think he saw a huge deficiency in our WRs and knew that he could fill the gap and get the chance to play with the leagues best QB. He will likely draw a lot of attention from other teams next year and get a huge payday while we keep Moss instead.

    Of course this is assuming that they both work hard and adapt to the system well. I would not be shocked if one of them can't handle the option routes or one of them pulls a hamstring in camp and never establishes the necessary rapport with Brady. I could have the situation backwards too, maybe Moss goes for the big payday and Stallworth decides to take a bit less for a chance at being on one of the all time great teams.

    When it comes down to it we don't know anything about what these guys are thinking, we get a little info that they release to the public and that is usually twisted by reporters so that it better fits their opinion. In the end it will be like all Patriots free agent decisions, it comes down to who is willing to take a little less money for the chance to play on a great team.
    Last edited: May 20, 2007
  10. jczxohn1

    jczxohn1 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    1,719
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    '08 WR prediction-
    1. Moss or Stallworth for Stallworth contract money
    2. Jackson
    3.Washington
    4.Welker
    5.Gaffney or rook
    6. rook
  11. Fantasic4x50x54x59x55

    Fantasic4x50x54x59x55 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2006
    Messages:
    238
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Well A great season for Jackson doesn't mean he has 50+ rec and 1000+ yd season.. so long as he can stay healthy and contribute, learn and soak in all the knowledge now around him, I'd consider it a successful season for him.

    The pats took one of the scariest/poorest situations on their team and set it up so they are set for a bit no matter what happens..In a sense picking up Stallworth/Moss not only betters our chances of winning but creates a type of sheild to our younger WR's..giving them what Caldwell-Gaffney-Jackson didn't have last season, Time to learn the system-soak up everything around them-A more calm enviorment with Brady. Instead of throwing them back into the fire, they now have to the option to really evaluate each player see if he belongs for real. They also have the option of keeping one of the 2 (Stallworth/Moss) if they feel one of the other WRs are ready, or letting them both walk if we feel Jackson/Washington/Welker can carry the load suffeciently. Etheir way we are pretty set at WR..this season it might seem crowded and a waste of roster spots but it will all sort out in due time.
  12. Fantasic4x50x54x59x55

    Fantasic4x50x54x59x55 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2006
    Messages:
    238
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    and for the record and IMHO, Moss isn't looking for a huge contract to retire on, In all honesty his name alone would cause some knucklehead FO to sign him for some pretty good money, had he wanted it, regardless of production-problems etc. We've all seen it happen. If it was all about money, He could of just stayed in OAK and played half a s * e d and gotten paid, and concentrated on his INTA JUICE chain. No instead he took a pay-cut and came to a situation where he etheir plays hard from May-Feb or gets cut... ,

    He's proven to everyone how he can be lazy and a waste of a roster spot, just as hes proven to everyone how dynamic and dominating he can be.. What he hasn't proven to everyone is that he can be a part of a wining team and be consistently good...This is where he can do just that and maybe just maybe everyone can forget the Moss of old, and talk of how the Brady-Moss Duo is just as deadly as Manning-Harrison/ Montana- Rice..... I am willing to bet thats exactly what Moss wants from here on out in his career.
  13. 1BoltFan Here4Fun

    1BoltFan Here4Fun Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    If the Patriots season goes exactly as scripted and Brady to Moss consistently connects, Moss will be a great addition and the consummate team player. If the offense struggles for any reason and Moss finds himself running patterns without getting the ball, he'll become a problem.

    Win and he'll be back, underachieve as an offensive unit and he'll be gone. I think it is that simple.

    With a SuperBowl ring, I wouldn't be surprised to see him retire either. He's not in love with football like his peers. Its all about his ego. Great player, so so heart. Randy's way or the highway.
  14. sieglo

    sieglo Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Messages:
    4,244
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +16 / 0 / -0

    I think the whole Gabriel thing last year was designed as an object lesson to Moss -- fvck around on this team and we won't hesitate to cut you, even if you are talented.
  15. Born_a_Patriot

    Born_a_Patriot PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2006
    Messages:
    1,466
    Likes Received:
    9
    Ratings:
    +9 / 0 / -0

    Come on where do the buy their groceries. For the most part these are not Paycheck to paycheck people.
    Last edited: May 22, 2007
  16. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    8,329
    Likes Received:
    17
    Ratings:
    +17 / 0 / -0

    The pats offered Givens five years, $20 mil, and Branch around $30 mil, 6 years.

    Define high value for me.
  17. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    Messages:
    5,041
    Likes Received:
    23
    Ratings:
    +43 / 11 / -4

    #54 Jersey

    Something else about our WRs I just thought off... we should see more PI calls this year. As soon as single coverage is identified Brady can just launch it deep and hope for a catch but at a minimum put pressure on the DBs and get the odd 40-50 yard PI call.
  18. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    12,377
    Likes Received:
    30
    Ratings:
    +53 / 1 / -4

    One thing goes against your assumption though... Stallworth is already signed to a long term contract. The question is whether or not the Patriots decide to keep him around. If they like him, they can keep him, and other teams interest level won't have anything to do with what he gets paid. It's already been signed.
  19. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    9,898
    Likes Received:
    47
    Ratings:
    +105 / 2 / -3

    Right - which is why I think if both Stallworth and Moss have lights out seasons, Stallworth would be the one kept. Moss goes to the open market, Stallworth does not.

    It's not that Stallworth wouldn't have a very good contract here - probably about $7 million with incentives though I think that drops a bit in 2009 - but it would be reasonable for his production if that scenario played out.

    Moss is playing this season for free agency - Stallworth is playing this season to earn the rest of his Patriots contract.
  20. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    20,897
    Likes Received:
    129
    Ratings:
    +340 / 22 / -2

    If Stallworth plays well, he stays. It's as simple as that. Stallworth has a long-term affordable contrct; that is, affordable if he is a top starting WR.

    With Moss, the market may be relevant. It's up to Moss. The market wasn't relevant this year.

    I expect to see two of Stallworth, Moss and Washington on the 2008 team; although I would like to see all three.
    Last edited: May 24, 2007

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>