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Two rule changes I'd like to see

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by aluminum seats, Jan 10, 2009.

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  1. aluminum seats

    aluminum seats Rookie

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    Both occurred to me today, and one of them seems easy to implement.

    #1. The delay of game rule....why is this treated so casually? It's simply accepted that it's not precisely enforced, and in today's Balt/Tenn game, the Ravens had like 2 extra seconds. Easy solution: have somebody w/control of the play clock--if the ball's not snapped, they press a button, and a D (for delay....) flashes on the clock. Enough of having these doddering old men on the field trying to figure out if there's a delay. Done.

    #2. The game rhythm gets totally out of whack with commercial breaks after the kickoffs. Every other break is natural....a timeout, a score, etc. But the "come back from a commercial, have a kick, and then go to commercial again" absolutely sucks. Now, I'm not naive, and I know that when $$ comes into play, there's no going back. But I wonder if the same amount of commercials couldn't be spread into the other breaks? Probably not, for the same reason we would all want that--you know there's another minute of break, so you take your time getting extra nachos. But MAYBE they could sell it to advertisers, right? I mean, after all, the NFL is king.

    Anyway, just a couple of random thoughts as I watch these horrendous playoff games without the Pats.
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Or they could give the official a buzzer or vibrator so he can watch the ball and no when the clock hits zero. It is very possible and it's dumb the way it is now.
  3. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ~~~Out of Order~~~ PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Sure ... A small vibrator in their pockets will wake them up.
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2009
  4. aluminum seats

    aluminum seats Rookie

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    By the way, I realize the commercial thing isn't a "rule." But I'd still like it changed.
  5. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    Or they could make the DOG penalty reviewable. It's a static, CLEAR thing to judge. It should absolutely be challenge-able.
  6. Grenouille

    Grenouille Rookie

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    I completely agree about doing something about the DOG rule. It has gotten ridiculous in the past few seasons. If they need to pay someone to specifically watch that clock alone they should.

    The amount of commercials the NFL takes is annoying, but I guess I’ve just gotten used to it and expect them now. They serve as time to run to the fridge for another beer or a quick BR visit.
  7. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Rookie

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    I don't see a problem with the the delay on the delay of game.

    1. It is pretty consistent from crew to crew, game to game, team to team.

    2. Is there anything more ticky-tack than a DOG penalty, for snapping the ball a quarter of second too late?
  8. aluminum seats

    aluminum seats Rookie

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    Well OK, but it is a freakin' RULE. So no, I don't think it's ticky-tack. Have the rule or don't....it's a clear-cut thing. And considering the fact the Pats are well-coached, if it was enforced, they'd probably be more on top of it than other teams, if you want to look at it that way.
  9. Michael

    Michael Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    In Super Bowl Xtra Lame the Steelers couldn't get the ball snapped in time and Ben signaled a time out about 2 full seconds after the clock went to 0. It was yet another thing Pittsburgh was gifted in that game. There are way too many subjective calls in the NFL. At the very least they should get a penalty after the play is over. Just like holding. I'd also like to see some consistency with the "excessive celebration" rule. I saw a QB run in to the end zone throw the ball to the ground and pick it up again and spike it in front of the back judge and no flag. Yet we saw Pats get it for less and other teams as well.

    The other thing I think needs to be changed is the goal posts. I think they need to be made closer together. It has become just to routine to get past mid field and your in FG range already. Especially with the OT sudden death. Take the ball to the 35 on the kick off. And in one or two plays you can be in FG range. And they're making them.
  10. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Delay of the Game: As mentioned above, get with the times and use technology. When the official clock goes to zero, it sends a buzz in to one of the ref's ears. Or, when the ball is snapped one of the line judges pushes a button that kills what would otherwise be a horn signalling time had passed.

    Measurement for a first down: You bring out the chains for the measurement, but everything else on previous downs is based on memory from the previous play and lining things up by sight from 40 yards away. How does that make sense? If you don't want to go high-tech, then just give refs a tape measure from each yard line for every play. Plus, it would save time for those measurements, which the networks will love.
  11. neuronet

    neuronet Rookie

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    Isn't the commercial after kickoff to allow time for the players to get set up? Or do they delay it so there can be ads? I thought it was about the same time given to get set up as with a time out, but that was just an assumption.
  12. mmasterkillah

    mmasterkillah Rookie

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    Need a buzzer on the delays.
  13. unoriginal

    unoriginal Rookie

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    Middle school teams manage to switch units and balls just fine without the benefit of an official's time out.
  14. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I like this idea, the delays not called in the Ravens game were outrageous... it might also prove exciting for the refs as well..

    I also like the idea of some type of laser on the edges of the playing field and end lines, would end a lot of guess work and judgement calls...
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2009
  15. bresna

    bresna PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'd like to see them get rid of the Illegal Touching rule. It was put in place to prevent someone from running out of bounds to avoid a block but what it does now is penalize a player for continuing down field even if he is legally blocked out. A player should never be penalized for playing through a block.

    Besides, isn't it already a penalty to stay out of bounds to avoid a block? If so, then the Illegal Touching rule is redundant.
  16. dhamz

    dhamz Rookie

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    Not at all about setting up.

    It is painful when attending a game in person to watch both teams standing in the huddle for minutes on end waiting for the commercials to end.
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2009
  17. VJ11

    VJ11 Rookie

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    On Delay of Game: check the NFL rules for which official is responsible for the playclock, IMHO it's the Back Judge together with the Referee. The only thing they have to do is anticipate better on the playclock reaching zero seconds when they look at the snap. And a signal like a buzzer or otherwise, would have to be sent slightly in advance of the playclock reaching zero seconds, to take into account the delay from the moment the clock hits zero to the moment the zero is registered by the eyes of the officials. I don't think we should overload the officials with electronic devices, just because once in while the human mind decides to react slower than usual.

    On Measurement: The Umpire is the official that takes care of the placement of the ball. The officials on the sidelines decide to which point the ball is advanced to, and the umpire puts it at that spot. The ball doesn't move an inch until the center lines up again. In case of a measurement, the officials crew moves all players out of the way, and the chains are brought in, with the wing official holding firm grip of the chain on the spot of the best fitting 5- or 10-yard line. The chain is placed alongside the ball, and the back stick is placed on the ground (guided by the official holding the chain), and finally the front stick is placed down to see where the ball is in relation to the front stick. All this is standard officials work, I don't see where you get your assumption that they are just guessing, or do it "from memory"? One thing to remember: all the lines (yellow, blue, red, whatever) drawn on the screen are unofficial. The position of the ball is determined by how far the ball has advanced in the runner/receiver's hands, and a first down is determined by the relative place to the chain. And to get a first down, only the tiniest amount of the tip of the ball has to get past the front stick of the chain.
  18. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    I like it where it is. I think the rhythm of the game is disturbed less at change of possessions and around kicks and the 2 minute warning. What disturbs the flow of the game is anything in the middle of a series, including timeouts, some penalties, and challenges.

    But there is no rhythm to disrupt around a kick.
  19. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Rookie

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    I think everyone fails to realize why they call the delay of game the way they do. It is to ensure that a play is not stopped unless the ball was not snapped. What is worse giving teams an extra second (keep in minds the refs will try to give the same extra second to both teams though each ref may be a little different) or blowing the whistle and than realizing opps they actually snapped that in time and replaying the down because of inadvertant whistle.


    The way it is set up would still need to be the same with a buzzer on the ref because once they get buzzed they still want to ensure the ball was not snapped.
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2009
  20. VJ11

    VJ11 Rookie

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    The illegal touching rule is concerned with players who get out of bounds, then return inside the field of play and then still are the first to touch the ball or the returner. If something like that happens, you should be worried about the other players on the coverage team, who got a shorter/better route towards the ball or returner. In most cases, when a player gets out of bounds he ends up with a longer route to the ball, which he mostly can't make up with his speed. This has more to do with the fact that special teams is now considered as important as offense and defense, so less slackers on the field who can't be bothered to really block someone.
  21. Michael

    Michael Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Which is why I said it should be like holding or a false start. They lose yardage on the next play. No need to stop the play.
  22. unoriginal

    unoriginal Rookie

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    They can't do it like that. Delay of game is inherently a dead ball foul.
  23. Synovia

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    I'm pretty sure you can give up a timeout to stop a delay of game call. I think theres a rule in there for it.



    Put a big buzzer in the stadium. Have it go off when clock hits zero. If buzzer goes off before ball is snapped, DOG. Give the head ref a button that resets it.
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2009
  24. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Let me clarify. On the play clock, an electronic device (e.g., buzzer) would allow that back judge to focus solely on the ball, rather than looking for the play clock and then back to the ball. It wouldn't be all that different from what the NBA uses with lighting on the backboard, or the horn for the shot clock to help the ref determine if a shot got off in time.

    Regarding measurement, "from memory" was a poor choice of words on my part; sorry that you felt compelled to teach me what happens on a measurement as if I've never seen a game. However, I find it funny that everything up to the measurement for first down is done by sight - from 60 to 100 feet away. A team gets a first down and the chains and down marker are placed on the sidelines by sight; an incomplete pass and the ball is re-placed by sight, etc.; yet when it comes to the measurement for first down, the chains are brought out with the idea the ball, or chains, couldn't have possibly been off by an inch on the previous plays.

    Maybe the NFL keeps doing it this way for the tradition, and perhaps the networks like it for the drama. I just thought it may be quicker and more accurate for the NFL to update the "bringing out the chains" to determine first downs. Speed up the game creates a better flow of the game for players and fans. For networks, there would be less games that run over their allotted time, which can cause headaches. And if the games end a couple minutes earlier, the networks can run more ads after the game - which means less of a need for TV timeouts during the game.
  25. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    Gee, thanks, none of us knew any of this, especially the part about refs not using the yellow first down lines the networks superimpose on television screens.
  26. Michael

    Michael Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We're talking about changing the rules are we not?
  27. TomBrady'sGoat

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    1 - Delay of game could be easily enforced using technology. I guess the question is whether or not it is worth it. I don't see why it wouldn't be worth it to take whatever small step would be required to do so.

    I personally don't care if a team snaps the ball a second or two late and gets away with it. Nothing is really lost by it, and it isn't like the defense did anything to deserve it. I reserve my outrage for bogus PI calls (and blatant non-calls), which can alter a game dramatically.

    2 - People always tell me it is heresy but I watch games on a dvr delay (an hour and a half delay gets the job done) whenever possible. There are just so many commercials in an NFL game that it actively hinders my enjoyment of the game. When I watch a game live and sit through the "touchdown - commercials - kickoff - commercials" routine it drive me crazy.
  28. bresna

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    Yeah, that's true. But why should a player be penalized for that? I've seen calls when the gunner's outside edge of his foot caught the sideline and he was able to corral the ball on the 2 yard line, only to have that flag fly and find out his great play would result in good field position for the other team because he did something "wrong". It penalizes a player for playing through a block. It's just not right.

    Penalize a player for going out of bounds and not trying to get back in, but don't penalize a player for playing through a block.
  29. Michael

    Michael Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I enjoy watching them live (even though there is still some delay). I just watch with my laptop in my lap. But, if I pause the game for a while to do something it is nice to come back and just watch the action until I catch up. I have a button programmed to skip 30 seconds. At the the end of the play I hit the 30 second button and they are usually just lining up for the next play. I can watch a whole quarter in about 5 minutes.
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2009
  30. SeymourTrophies

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    I agree with both, but it's optimistic for us to hope they would get rid of the T.V. timeout right before each possession. Money talks. The delay of game thing is easily avoided.

    What I'm not sure about is why they got rid of the force out rule. It was a good rule among many dumb ones, and they rubbished it. Why?
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