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Two party system broken.

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PATSNUTme, May 8, 2007.

  1. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    I think I feel like many that the two party system is broken. This may be hard for you party hacks to accept but it is the reality.

    Never in my lifetime have I seen every single issue politicized so nothing is getting done. I'm talking about big issues, Iraq,Terrorism, SS, Medicare, immigration. These will all have a major impact on the future of the country but all we hear is yelling back and forth.

    In other times, when our country faced a major crisis, a leader would emerge to bring the nation through the crisis. There is no such leader in either party now nor it appears to be one in the future. One side blames Bush and takes great joy at his low poll numbers. However the disapproval poll numbers for the democrats in congress are just as high.

    This nation is crying out for independent leadership. A couple of suggestions would be some of these people to denounce their parties and run as true independents. Fred Thompson, Joe Lieberman, Evan Bayh. Mike Huckerbee. Don't need a nut like Ross Perot or Pat B. We need some true leaders.

    I know that indpendents usually don't fair very well. But, I think this time they could pull it off because there a many, many people disillusioned with the two party system that we have now. If they could win or make enough noise to shake the parties to their core, if would be a great thing.

    We will always have right and left, that's just the way people are. But, does there have to be such a divide? How many people are willing to tell the party that they are registered to, "goodbye, you aren't getting it done, I'm not voting for you any more"?
     
  2. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    well, until a third party can ever receive something like 10% of the vote, they'll never be invited to the television debates before the next election...

    and being in those TV debates is essential...

    so, while the Greens essentially helped Bush be close enough to steal the election in '00, and hurt Kerry in '04 also, they are growing in popularity... and could get TV time in the near future...
     
  3. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    You were saying PATSNUTme?

    This country is all done. It's too late. Once they legalize the 20-30 million illegals in this country, that final nail will be in the coffin.
     
  4. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    what do yo mean by this, exactly? try not to be coy this time, and explain yourself...
     
  5. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    This is exactly the type of response I was expecting by some. You really think that the 'Greens" are the solution to the long and short term problems that we are facing?

    How is that being centrist enough to unite the 90% of the people who are not or will ever be "Greens".
     
  6. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    you asked how a third party can ever get a foot in the door... the point is, it never will until it is invited to the televised debates before a presidential election...

    i never said Greens are the solution...
     
  7. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    The Greens are an extremist left party. It certainly does not fit the centrist, independent, unified positions that we need to lead the country. That would be the same for any extremist right party.

    The trouble with political parties right now is that party loyalty and grabbing power is the only thing that they are concerned with. They are no longer concerned about what is best for the country.
     
  8. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    I noticed you didn't include Ross Perot's help in getting Clinton Elected in the 1992 election.
     
  9. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Centrists don't unite the country anymore than more partisan candidates. I think you would have a hard case arguing that presidents Eisenhower, Carter, or Ford were better at unifying the country than people like Reagan, Johnson, Kennedy, or Roosevelt. The opposition will always seek to make matters more partisan, so that clearcut lines can be drawn before elections, even when the lines are not so clearcut.

    Fred Thompson is no independent, but a mainstream Republican who appeals to old folks with his folky Reaganesque style. Joe Lieberman is a strong social liberal and also supports the Iraq war. Huckabee is pro-Creatoinism and has been accused by conservatives at being a big spender.

    If you want an independent, someone like Michael Bloomberg, the Republican lite mayor of NYC, would be interesting because he has the money to run as a third-party candidate. That said, in our system, when push came to shove, most people will align themselves behind one of the two leading candidates. The only way to create a third party in this country is to move towards a parliamentary system with proportional representation.
     
  10. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    oh... did you "notice" that? lol... frankly, i didn't include it because i don't believe the Perrot vote was staunchy otherwise Rethuglican, nor was there evidence of election fraud in '92.... i see a striking diferrence there, not you?
     
  11. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    I am talking about a strong leader, Bloomberg is a weak sister.

    Thompson is not an independent now. But he is not a Rep candidate either and hold no office. Perfect guy to tell the party to go screw and join up with a guy like Lieberman who has every reason to tell his party to go screw.

    I am not talking about an Independent Party. Just people from the two parties who care more about the country than the party adn are willing to shake things up. We cannot go on the way things are going. We could be out of time now.
     
  12. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't disagree with what you're saying, but let's look at a couple examples. Bill Clinton took office bringing in all outsiders, people from his close circle. It was just a matter of time before he had not only the Republicans against him, but his then Democratic Congress as well. He had to replace his outsiders with seasoned political operatives. Deval Patrick just went through the same thing here. His first Chief of Staff was a true outsider, but she didn't know how to play the game, so Deval had to let her go and bring in an insider. If you bring in someone who will tell their party to go screw, their party will screw them. In addition, to raise the big bucks to run for office, you need to have the well heeled in your corner and that invariably leads to a loss of independence.

    As far as independents, what do you think of Giuiliani, who is struggling to be true to his beliefs on social issues while at the same time competing for the Republican nomination? He is certainly not trying too hard to reach out to the Republican right-wing, but to reach out to a broader audience. By the same token, you have Hillary among the Democrats, who in fact scores extremely high on veterans issues, is a fiscal moderate, and a social liberal. She's is not mainstream, despite her unpopularity. As long as we let pundits define our candidates, they will never come off as independent.
     
  13. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    The Republucrat party is a centrist party. When you paddle a canoe, the fastest and easiest route is down the center of the river. That's what they do now in the so-called two party system. It's useless.

    What we need IMO is a broader-based party that takess the best the Greens have to offer and the best the Libertarians have. Eliminate the three year election campaigns by shutting off the sludge pipe from the PACs, lobbies, and special interests and allow only individual donors with a cap. Shorten the campaign to four months and that should be a good beginning. So much needs to happen that it will require a great - not good- leader to spearhead the revolution and return to the government we need for the future. The way it stands now, we're fu-ked.
     
  14. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Stand by for 2008. It matters less who gets in, what's most important is getting a new President. The one we have now is like an embattled HC of some awful sports team.

    The two party system isn't going anywhere. People who think that the parties drive the politics are wrong. Its actually the other way around. The electorate goes where it wants to go and the parties take up positions relative to it.

    I'll give one more prediction. The next President will go down in history as one of the most popular. I don't care who it is because it doesn't matter. Even if Rudy's campaign plane has a mid air collision with Edwards' and they tumble into the ground crashing on top of the campaign buses of Hillary, McCain, Romney, Ron Paul and Mike Huckabee. Thereby leaving an unobstructed path for that flake Bill Richardson, he'll still go down as one of our finest Presidents. About the only thing that might screw that up would be another terrorist attack of similar magnitude to 9-11. Barring that, its only a matter of time.
     
  15. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    What for? Everytime you ask me to explain something, or answer a question, I do, and all you do is ignore my words and revert back to your Think Progress, Keith Odorman talking points. Afterall, that's how the name Agenda Boy was born! :D
     
  16. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Hmmm.... a Fred Thompson, Joe Lieberman ticket? That might be interesting. Still don't know about much about Thompson though, except for the fact that he thinks a Ruskie doesn't take a dump without making a plan first. :D
     
  17. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Why, because they will follow GW and his 30% approval ratings? Let me remind you that GW was once at 80-90% approval post 9/11. Sure, slightly inflated figures due to patriotic feeling, but none the less, a drastic 180 from where he stands today. There is no way to know how popular the next guy will be. He, or she, may have to deal with more than GW has, or might pass policies that the public dislikes. Furthermore, simply pointing at the guy next to you is not going to last long term. Short term maybe, but not long term. The next president will hae a full plate to deal with, and a very volatile atmosphere to work in.
     
  18. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    please... you rarely, if every, answer a direct challenge... you dance around the question, giving a convoluted, vague conditional response ...

    here, let's try this: why, in your narrow mind, is everyone else -- the american public, politicians, the media -- dumb except for YOU?
     
  19. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I agree about the amount of work; but not the atmosphere. A fresh face will lead to a more positive mindset nationally and the problems will just melt away. I liken it to when Romney took over Salt Lake City's Olympic Games Committee. By the time he was placed in charge, there was such a huge impetus towards fixing that enormous mess that he could have sat in his office picking lint out of his navel right up 'till they lit the torch and everything still would have turned out fine. This is America, we're bound to come roaring back, and whoever happens to be sitting in the big chair when the inevitable happens will get to enjoy the credit.
     
  20. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    How's that fresh face bit working out for the Dem congress? It's nice and all to think that way, but like I said before, the honeymoon only lasts so long in today's environment. Furthermore, it's not only the domestic atmosphere I was referring to.
     

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