Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by mikey, Jan 25, 2007.
Special prosecutor Kevin Baxter, who was brought in from Erie County to handle the case, did not claim the workers' actions affected the outcome of the election - Kerry gained 17 votes and Bush lost six in the county's recount.
But Baxter insisted the employees broke the law when they worked behind closed doors three days before the public Dec. 16, 2004, recount to pick ballots they knew would not cause discrepancies when checked by hand so they could avoid a lengthier, more expensive hand recount of all votes.
Ohio law states that during a recount each county is supposed to randomly count at least 3 percent of its ballots by hand and by machine. If there are not discrepancies in those counts, the rest of the votes can be recounted by machine. A full hand-count is ordered if two random samples result in differences.
Grier, the worker who was acquitted, was the only defendant who commented following the verdicts.
"It has all been very stressful," said Grier, 54. "Yes, I'm very relieved. But, none of us should have been in this courtroom today. These charges should not have been brought against any of us."
Defense lawyer Roger Synenberg said in his closing argument that the 2004 presidential election was the most publicly observed ever in Cuyahoga County and the workers were simply following procedures as they understood them.
Cleveland... Cleveland ... hm-m-m
Wasn't that the place the Dems were absolutely counting on to win Ohio in the '00 and '04 elections??? Wasn't Cleveland the reason good ol' departed Dan "Ortega" Rather switched his call in the '00 election ??? Florida was all smoke and mirrors for the Dems; OHIO was the big one they were counting on.
My, my, my. So they actually DID try to rig the election. Well, what do you know.
Not saying what they did was right, but fixing it to avoid a re-count is very different from rigging the re-count. Most re-counts result in no change. They should have allowed the process to complete to it's natural conclusion but no re-count was rigged, just the opportunity to have a re-count was.
No they didn't, they just took a shortcut (one they shouldn't have taken) to reaching was very likely would have been the same result.
Oh, I see. And the reason they took that "shortcut" was ... ? To ensure an honest election ??? If so, then why were they convicted of anything??
They probably didn't want to go through the hassle. I didn't say it was right. But the election, up to the re-count, hasn't been accused on being dishonest. All that was lost was the very slim chance of a re-count reversal. Again, it should have been re-counted but it's more of a technicality than an actual election theft.
its really wonderful that we are looking to influence the world about freedom and democracy. What a splendid example we set for other nations.
shame shame shame.
at least nothing really bad happened. At least our 'elected' leader isn' a psychopathic power hungry bully who is hell bent on world domination. thank God we dodged that bullet!
If you say so.
If you believe the prosecutor, this was more an act of lazyness than an act of election rigging. Still doesn't sit well that it happened in Ohio of all places.
The story reads to me that these people were being technicalitied to death, and were being made an example of. If this were some form of awful, election changing fraud, I think it'd be front page material. In reading the article, it seems like doing they were doing 56, in a 55 mph zone.
Is he related to the family that makes those taco kits in the supermarket? He doesn't look Spanish.
Robert Kennedy wrote an article in the Rolling Stone about the Ohio Probs..
A blog on this whole Ohio thing by a left wing blogger..
Where there is smoke there is usually fire.
Yes, but he's adopted.
I'm sorry, but if there was any real evidence of wrong doing, the MSM would be all over it, even today. The MSM, like the public, doesn't like this administration. Why on earth would they not report wrong doing? Lets say the MSM didn't want people to loose trust in the system, well then maybe some outlets wouldn't report it, but some others certainly would. Does this mean that everything worked properly, or some scumbags on either side didn't try to foil something in their favor? Of course not, but to say the election was wrigged is propostrous. More people than Robert Kennedy and Bob's Blog would be reporting it. Especially after what went on in 2000. This election was the most closely monitored in our history. Those monitoring were from both sides of the isle. They were looking for problems, some were probably even hoping for them.
How in the world do a couple of lazy schmucks in one city "know" Kerry would have won a recount..?
What more do I want...? I want evidence from an impartial source (emphasis: impartial source) that supports the notion that there is statistical evidence showing Kerry would have won. I look forward to you providing such.
This is one of the things that amuses me about you. You ask questions that I hav already answered. The answer to "why would they do this?" is because they were being lazy and had no clue that it would be such a big deal.
Please - I beg every single one of you reading this - click on the following link and tell me if you really believe the 3 people in this picture are the secret Bush team put in place to ensure he would win the Ohio election and there would be no recount.
Those must be the only 2 female black Republicans in the entire state.
Again, please provide a verifiable, impartial source to that statement.
Recounts almost never affect the outcome - it was just a few people who didn't want to go through the hassle of a recount. I am not saying it's right, just that it's not "rigging the recount" because that's a lot different than "stopping the recount".
This article is from the liberal Boston Globe. So please, can we give the "they wrigged it for Bush' crap a rest?
Ohio county presidential recount rigged to avoid work, prosecutor says
Jacqueline Maiden (center), Rosie Grier (left), and Kathleen Dreamer appeared in court yesterday in Cleveland to face charges of misconduct in connection with 2004 elections. (TONY DEJAK/ASSOCIATED PRESS)
By M.R. Kropko, Associated Press | January 19, 2007
CLEVELAND -- Three county elections workers conspired to avoid a more thorough recount of ballots in the 2004 presidential election, a prosecutor told jurors during opening statements yesterday.
"The evidence will show that this recount was rigged, maybe not for political reasons, but rigged nonetheless," Prosecutor Kevin Baxter said. "They did this so they could spend a day rather than weeks or months" on the recount, he said.
Jacqueline Maiden, the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections coordinator, faces six counts of misconduct over how the ballots were reviewed. Rosie Grier, manager of the board's ballot department, and Kathleen Dreamer, an assistant manager, face the same charges.
Defense lawyers said in their opening statements that the workers in Ohio's most populous county did nothing out of the ordinary and hid nothing from the public.
"They just were doing it the way they were always doing it," said Roger Synenberg, who represents Dreamer.
The workers are not accused of voter fraud but of purposely breaking the law to avoid a time-consuming and expensive hand count.
Prosecutors do not allege that the defendants affected the outcome of the presidential election, which President Bush would not have won without Ohio.
The recount, requested by third-party candidates, showed the Republican incumbent beat Senator John Kerry, the Democratic nominee, by about 118,000 votes of 5.5 million cast.
Ohio law states that during a recount each county is supposed to randomly choose 3 percent of its ballots and tally them by hand and by machine.
If there are no discrepancies in those counts, the rest of the votes can be recounted by machine.
If there is a difference, the county must randomly recount 3 percent of the ballots a second time. All the county's ballots must be recounted by hand if there is a second discrepancy, but if there isn't, all the ballots can be recounted by machine.
Baxter said testimony in the case will show that instead of conducting a random count, the workers chose sample precincts for the Dec. 16, 2004, recount that did not have questionable results to ensure that no discrepancies would emerge.
In Cuyahoga, a Democratic stronghold where about 600,000 ballots were cast, the recount had little effect on the results. Kerry gained 17 votes and Bush lost six.
It's unlikely another recount would be ordered because of the court case, which voting rights advocates have used as an example of flaws with the state's recount laws.
There were allegations in several counties of similar presorting of ballots for the recounts that state law says are to be random.
Read "Real World"'s link - not that you live in his world but read it anyway
Why do you waste your time BF? They recounted 600,000 ballots from that county and there was a change of 17 votes I think.
Yeah, and "Bush still stole the election". Right.
Some people believe what they want to believe and never let the facts get in the way.
Uh, did you look at the picture I provided for you..? Sorry, but I am not seeing any mensa members in there... and I am certainly not seeing George Bush's demographic...
But you're right Nem... those 2 elderly black women and the white woman are part of my vast right wing conspiracy... you've figured us all out... I will have to deactive Agents 86, 99 and 007 and disavow any and all knowledge of their activities and whereabouts...
007 ?!!! Which one of them has a "license to kill"?? I'm steering clear of Cleveland. First the river catches fire, now this !!
That is too funny Qui... :rofl:
No Patriots game to talk about
Sometimes I reply to NEM, sometimes I don't. Depends how bored I am
You guys are playing word games with "rigged". The question wasn't about what they did, it's about why they did it. We'll never know for sure, and it was more than 2 years ago, so I'm just ready to move on already. I do give the GOP credit for not whining about unfairness and electioneering after they lost their majority.
that's mostly because it's, for the most part, too late....
heck... let's be quite honest ... they got what they wanted, and were kinda like the cat who swallowed the canary after 2000... and moreso 2004
"you break it, you own it" -- Colin Powell
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