Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defending?

[mb6592]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

Personally, I'm just looking at the Pats for this discussion -

So, let's take a brief look at the track record of the offense and defense of the Pats this decade in these clutch situations.

Just to narrow it down, let's hold it just the playoffs:

The offense had clutch (we'll define as late 4th quarter drives to take the lead) in the following games:

01: AFCDG, SB
03: SB [twice]
06: AFCDG, AFCCG
07: SB

That's 6 games, and 7 clutch drives.

The defense had ANTI-clutch drives (relinquishing the lead) in the following games:
01: SB
03: SB
04: SB
06: AFCCG
07: SB

That's 5 anti-clutch drives by the defense.

Admittedly, the defense has had clutch stops, Eagles Super Bowl, Titans AFCDG come to mind.

Essentially, anytime the offense has gotten the ball with more than 50 seconds, tied or down by 4 or less in the Brady era, they've scored a go-ahead TD. Meanwhile, the defense has struggled mightily in the 4th quarter in these key games, even back when the defense was considered amongst the best.

Forget what you inherently know and defer to the flawless logic previously posted and seconded by some.

 

[signbabybrady]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

If the logic espoused here is so flawless answer me this. Right now which scenario would you feel more confident in:

- Score Pats 14, Colts/Steelers/Chargers 12, 2 mins to left (Steelers with 3 timeouts), or
- Score Colts/Steelers/Chargers 17, Pats 13, 2 mins to go (Pats with 3 timeouts)?

It's not as easy a slamdunk as you suggest.

I think I have already answered that in this thread but I will repeat I want the lead.

and I will repeat this too. If you think you want to be down in this scenario than if you were faced with these two scenarios your first scenario is still better because you could try and let them score and who knows maybe they fumble or commit a binehead penalty worsening their chances.


I know last weeks two minutes drives were awsome, I know Brady is awsome, and I know he has had a few huge game winning drives but this argument really is silly I can't imagine Brady, any coach or any other player really wanting to be down in this situation. Take the lead and take your chances.

 

[crypto]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

With this team, I'll take offense. Two minutes are plenty of time if you have a couple of timeouts, and obviously NE's passing game (short, mid, and long range considered) is one of the best in the league.

Now, if this was 2003, we could be on defense down by four points and still get a touchdown without the O even going on field.

 

[mb6592]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

I think I have already answered that in this thread but I will repeat I want the lead.

and I will repeat this too. If you think you want to be down in this scenario than if you were faced with these two scenarios your first scenario is still better because you could try and let them score and who knows maybe they fumble or commit a binehead penalty worsening their chances.


I know last weeks two minutes drives were awsome, I know Brady is awsome, and I know he has had a few huge game winning drives but this argument really is silly I can't imagine Brady, any coach or any other player really wanting to be down in this situation. Take the lead and take your chances.

Then you would be more confident with scenario one. I would bet if a poll were taken you'd be in the minority. Your answer (like Deus) seems more philosophical and doesn't seem to consider our present situation. Would you feel the same way if the old Manning teams with those great offenses and lousy defenses were used (or the old Chargers w/ Fouts were used)?

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

Then you would be more confident with scenario one. I would bet if a poll were taken you'd be in the minority. Your answer (like Deus) seems more philosophical and doesn't seem to consider our present situation. Would you feel the same way if the you the old Manning teams with those great offenses and lousy defenses were used (or the old Chargers w/ Fouts were used)?

You always want to be in the lead. If you honestly think otherwise, could you please list, say, 5 examples of where NFL coaches have chosen otherwise?

 

[signbabybrady]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

Then you would be more confident with scenario one. I would bet if a poll were taken you'd be in the minority. Your answer (like Deus) seems more philosophical and doesn't seem to consider our present situation. Would you feel the same way if the you the old Manning teams with those great offenses and lousy defenses were used (or the old Chargers w/ Fouts were used)?

call me crazy I just dont see how it is a good thing to be losing....so much can happen in two minutes under either scenario and I would just assume to have the lead whenever possible.

Think about the Tuck Play if brady had fully tucked that ball back to his body than this whole run may have never been started as it would have been a fumble. Sure as it was he led one of the greatest drives in NFL history but **** happens and I'ld prefer to have the lead.

 

[signbabybrady]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

Then you would be more confident with scenario one. I would bet if a poll were taken you'd be in the minority. Your answer (like Deus) seems more philosophical and doesn't seem to consider our present situation. Would you feel the same way if the you the old Manning teams with those great offenses and lousy defenses were used (or the old Chargers w/ Fouts were used)?

You always want to be in the lead. If you honestly think otherwise, could you please list, say, 5 examples of where NFL coaches have chosen otherwise?

On Dues line of thinking if you polled the NFL coaches I highly doubt any of them would chose to be down and guarentee the majority would chose the lead.

 

[PlainOldEd]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

Then you would be more confident with scenario one. I would bet if a poll were taken you'd be in the minority. Your answer (like Deus) seems more philosophical and doesn't seem to consider our present situation. Would you feel the same way if the you the old Manning teams with those great offenses and lousy defenses were used (or the old Chargers w/ Fouts were used)?

I'm in the take the lead and play D crowd and we may be outnumbered in this thread (or maybe not) but I guarantee 32 NFL coaches would take the lead.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

With this defense I would rather be down 4 pts with 2:00 left - no brainer

 

[mgteich]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

There may be a coach or two that would choose to be down 4 with 80 yards to go. Of course, those coaches should go back to their offensive coordinator jobs.

On Dues line of thinking if you polled the NFL coaches I highly doubt any of them would chose to be down and guarentee the majority would chose the lead.

 

[mb6592]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

There may be a coach or two that would choose to be down 4 with 80 yards to go. Of course, those coaches should go back to their offensive coordinator jobs.

All of you are answering philosophically, which misses the point of the thread. I bet Manning and Fouts, with those lousy defensive teams, would rather have had the ball in their hands. I don't have to answer philosophically - I HAVE BRADY (and arguably the most prolific offense the NFL has ever seen)!!! And our defense without Seymour and Mayo makes this an even easier choice. And, none of you know how Belichick would answer this:

Right now which scenario would you rather find yourself in:

- Score Pats 14, Colts/Steelers/Chargers 12, 2 mins remaining (both teams with 3 timeouts), or
- Score Colts/Steelers/Chargers 17, Pats 13, 2 mins remaining (both teams with 3 timeouts)

Mgteich, Dues, signbabybrady and others would rather find themselves in scenario #1. I (and probably a majority of others) would choose scenario #2.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

All of you are answering philosophically, which misses the point of the thread. I bet Manning and Fouts, with those lousy defensive teams, would rather have the ball in their hands. I don't have to answer philosophically - I HAVE BRADY!!! And our defense without Seymour and Mayo makes this an even easier choice. And, none of you know how Belichick would answer this:

Right now which scenario would you rather find yourself in:

- Score Pats 14, Colts/Steelers/Chargers 12, 2 mins remaining (both teams with 3 timeouts), or
- Score Colts/Steelers/Chargers 17, Pats 13, 2 mins remaining (both teams with 3 timeouts)

Mgteich, Dues, signbabybrady and others would rather be in scenario #1. I (and probably a majority of others) would choose scenario #2.

I want the lead. That applies whether I have Brady or not. Your "I WANT BRADY" is as philosophical as my "I want the lead". I'm still waiting for you to show me 5 examples of NFL coaches who've deliberately given away a lead in order to get the ball in situations similar to what you're postulating.

 

[mgteich]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

Remember the ball is on the 20.

I'd rather have lead, and I understand that I am in the minority. I'm sure Peyton and Tom would rather have the ball in their hands. But they aren't coaches.

With regard to Fouts, I suppose he would like to have the ball in his hands also, but he isn't in game shape.

All of you are answering philosophically, which misses the point of the thread. I bet Manning and Fouts, with those lousy defensive teams, would rather have had the ball in their hands. I don't have to answer philosophically - I HAVE BRADY (and arguably the most prolific offense the NFL has ever seen)!!! And our defense without Seymour and Mayo makes this an even easier choice. And, none of you know how Belichick would answer this:

Right now which scenario would you rather find yourself in:

- Score Pats 14, Colts/Steelers/Chargers 12, 2 mins remaining (both teams with 3 timeouts), or
- Score Colts/Steelers/Chargers 17, Pats 13, 2 mins remaining (both teams with 3 timeouts)

Mgteich, Dues, signbabybrady and others would rather find themselves in scenario #1. I (and probably a majority of others) would choose scenario #2.

 

[mb6592]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

I want the lead. That applies whether I have Brady or not. Your "I WANT BRADY" is as philosophical as my "I want the lead". I'm still waiting for you to show me 5 examples of NFL coaches who've deliberately given away a lead in order to get the ball in situations similar to what you're postulating.

I don't have to find 5 coaches, because philosophically I agree with you. We're talking about THIS offense and THIS defense. Simply put, with the game on the line, I'd feel more confident with the (by far) best unit on the field. I'm sure you'd find some coaches who would feel more confident with the ball in their offense's hands than with their defense being on the field and the other team only needing a field goal to win (possibly the Saints, Chargers, Falcons, Texans, Packers and maybe now the Patriots).

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

I haven't read the posts, but if anybody here thinks that they'd rather have a lead and put it into the hands of the defense, you are officially insane! In 2006, it was in the D's hands and they lost the game. In the 2008 super bowl, it was in the D's hands and they lost the game. Finally, in 2008, 3rd and 15. With that said, give me the deficit as I will take my chances with Brady and the offense. Their defense is 0-3 in clutch situations. However, their defense is off to a good start this year in stopping opposing offenses when it matters most.

 

[mb6592]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

I haven't read the posts, but if anybody here thinks that they'd rather have a lead and put it into the hands of the defense, you are officially insane! In 2006, it was in the D's hands and they lost the game. In the 2008 super bowl, it was in the D's hands and they lost the game. Finally, in 2008, 3rd and 15. With that said, give me the deficit as I will take my chances with Brady and the offense. Their defense is 0-3 in clutch situations.

Don't let reality get in the way of philosophical dogma.

 

[Adam Seward]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

Hard to answer, some flukey stuff can happen but ill try not to let that make the decision for me. I'd be much more confident with this offense getting the ball with 2 mins left to get the win. That being said, I feel it would be completely foolish to let the other teams offense score with 2:15 left just to get the ball with 2 left. I guess my feelings towards this scenario would be I would be more comfortable with this offense getting the ball with 2 minutes to go behind by 4 but I would NOT want the D to give up points with 2:xx to give us the ball behind with 2:00 left. Sure, someone may say they contradict, what can I say? You got me stuck.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

way too many unexplained variables like timeouts, field conditions, home field, injuries, etc., etc.

but, in general, why would i rather be behind than ahead in the last two minutes of a game, unless i had very little confidence in my D? please explain.

 

[Wildo7]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

Depends against who.

Against the Colts I'd probably choose to be down 4, since I think the Probability is higher that the Pats offense can lead a scoring drive than the Defense stopping the Colts offense. If it's against a team like the Steelers I'd choose to be up, since I think the probability is lower for the offense than the defense to perform their jobs.

 

[signbabybrady]

Re: Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defendin

I didn't really want to get back into this debate as I thought I said it all...but it just occured to me that one thing being ignored in this debate is that our secondary is actually good this year....we just held two of the games better receivers to a combined 5 catches for 71 yards and they should be getting better as the year goes on and they play more together. Not that I wouldn't still rather the lead even with last years secondary but why no love for our revamped secondary?