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Two FULLBACKS in for workouts


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How come we never work out anyone at Safety?

I mean fullback is cool and all but our secondary isn't looking so good.
 
The Bills D line abused the Pats goal line rushing offense on two different series Sunday. Full back is a need
 
C-Gronk : Romo :: Morris : TFB

And yet Morris was on the roster through last year. . . .

I was thinking the same thing ! since there is not third gronk option at this moment, lets be polite though ;)
 
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The Phins fan that I asked said that he's only a decent blocker.

Polite is more than a "decent blocker". Guy is a damn good blocker. The Phins probably dumped him because he was a Parcells guy. Polite is one of the guys Parcells brought with him from Dallas.

I wanted the Pats to sign Polite during Pre-season.
 
LeRon McLain was available in the offseason. Settling for Polite because the team didn't bother earlier doesn't really inspire.

McClain wanted guaranteed chances of running the ball. With KC, McClain was supposedto be part of the RB rotation behind Charles.. That hasn't materialized despite Charles going down with a season ending injury.
 
Charlie Scott also being worked out...5'11 242lbs ...

Interesting that he played as Ridley's FB at LSU.......
 
If we sign Polite, should we sign Ruud to balance him off?
 
we almost never sign these workout guys. I wouldn't hold my breath.
 
Polite is more than a "decent blocker". Guy is a damn good blocker. The Phins probably dumped him because he was a Parcells guy. Polite is one of the guys Parcells brought with him from Dallas.

I wanted the Pats to sign Polite during Pre-season.

Polite was more than a decent blocker three years ago, his skills have deteriorated. And no, they didn't dump him because he's a Parcell's guy. He's just not very good anymore.
 
Very interesting. The logical call is that the injury to Hernandez mitigated their ability to utilize their 2 TE sets and in turn, the motion based tight end blocking that accomplished the role of the fullback in the running game. I think that there is deeper undertones in this though. This does represent a shift away from the ambiguity afforded by the TE heavy offense and towards a more declarative offense. I have always been a fan of the line up and just play football philosophy in certain instances (particularly in balance with a spread based offense) and I think this represents an indication of this initiative. Further, the fullback is a well known way of defeating the faster spread killing defenses. I believe that this is representative of the major early season philosophic adjustment The Patriots have historically done. Should they actually sign one, this move should be study closely as a major thread in the evolution of the 2011 team.
 
Very interesting. The logical call is that the injury to Hernandez mitigated their ability to utilize their 2 TE sets and in turn, the motion based tight end blocking that accomplished the role of the fullback in the running game. I think that there is deeper undertones in this though. This does represent a shift away from the ambiguity afforded by the TE heavy offense and towards a more declarative offense. I have always been a fan of the line up and just play football philosophy in certain instances (particularly in balance with a spread based offense) and I think this represents an indication of this initiative. Further, the fullback is a well known way of defeating the faster spread killing defenses. I believe that this is representative of the major early season philosophic adjustment The Patriots have historically done. Should they actually sign one, this move should be study closely as a major thread in the evolution of the 2011 team.

If he can run routes and catch the ball is there any reason why a FB can line up and function as a TE? They’re generally shorter than TEs while being similar in weight, which would likely translate into better cutting ability and they’d also have better leverage when blocking.
 
We have Chung, Barrett, and Brown as our three position safeties.
We have Ihedigbo and Ventrone as STer's
I guess Belichick doesn't think anyone would be preferred to who we have.

How come we never work out anyone at Safety?

I mean fullback is cool and all but our secondary isn't looking so good.
 
If he can run routes and catch the ball is there any reason why a FB can line up and function as a TE? They’re generally shorter than TEs while being similar in weight, which would likely translate into better cutting ability and they’d also have better leverage when blocking.

I think that's true to a certain extent however prototypes exist for a reason. The reason tight ends are taller is that they matchup better in several ways that a fullback can't. First, they play on the edge, and consequently height and wingspan are important when matching up on edge defenders. Leverage in blocking is very important but wingspan in critical as well. Reaching the breastplate of a defender enables the blocker to effectively steer the other player. A lot of man on man engagement is locking the other guy out. The easier the defender can either lockout or keep the hands of the blocker off of him the easier his life is going to be. In order for a tight end to match up with these players he must be a taller guy.

The differences in the pass receiving game are at least four. First, tight ands and flexed out fullbacks are frequently jammed. This is usually done by the linebackers based off of personnel packages. A tall tight end has the length to disengage from a linebacker for a much cleaner release. A fullback will often be, at best, a draw in reach with most linebackers. This will hurt his ability to get a clean release. Once that player has released into coverage we speak about physical matchups. Tight ends are usually faster and usually bigger than a linebacker and always bigger than a safety. Not only can the tight end win body positioning stuff as well as creating a bigger catch radius, but his height ends itself to running seam routes and going up for the ball in the endzone. Fullbacks are a poor matchup as they lose on speed to safeties with similar heights, as well as on size and at times speed to linebackers. Even all world receiving fullbacks like Larry Centers are best used on leaks, flats, middle hitches, and screens. Fullbacks really struggle to compete in a game changing manner in the passing game.

While they can produce in the passing game it is limited to situational exploits and smart playcalling. The fullback is best existing as a run player who can account for extra run defenders, create seals, lead through to the second level, and provide the back with a clean read to explode off of. His biggest contribution is taking away one less player the ball carrier has to beat. If you have a good one, he should be able to get you a few tough power yards, catch the defense offguard on a quick handoff, and leak to the flat in the passing game. To expect a significant contribution with carries in the NFL is unrealistic. Triple option this is not. I know there is a lot of creativity that can be imagined with the fullback, but ultimately a lot of that is placing the player in a situation where he is poorly utilized. There's a reason Belichick has tried for the past decade to find Gronk before finding him instead of simply motioning around a fullback.
 
The fullback is best existing as a run player who can account for extra run defenders, create seals, lead through to the second level, and provide the back with a clean read to explode off of. His biggest contribution is taking away one less player the ball carrier has to beat.

That's a great point that bears repeating. I hope Bill signs an FB, because I think it would most benefit Woodhead; who I believe could be a poor man's Ray Rice with the right personnel and run calls. Having Woodhead run behind a FB could give help him get to the second level, where he does the most damage. No more getting swallowed up by big lineman all the time.
 
I think that's true to a certain extent however prototypes exist for a reason. The reason tight ends are taller is that they matchup better in several ways that a fullback can't. First, they play on the edge, and consequently height and wingspan are important when matching up on edge defenders. Leverage in blocking is very important but wingspan in critical as well. Reaching the breastplate of a defender enables the blocker to effectively steer the other player. A lot of man on man engagement is locking the other guy out. The easier the defender can either lockout or keep the hands of the blocker off of him the easier his life is going to be. In order for a tight end to match up with these players he must be a taller guy.

The differences in the pass receiving game are at least four. First, tight ands and flexed out fullbacks are frequently jammed. This is usually done by the linebackers based off of personnel packages. A tall tight end has the length to disengage from a linebacker for a much cleaner release. A fullback will often be, at best, a draw in reach with most linebackers. This will hurt his ability to get a clean release. Once that player has released into coverage we speak about physical matchups. Tight ends are usually faster and usually bigger than a linebacker and always bigger than a safety. Not only can the tight end win body positioning stuff as well as creating a bigger catch radius, but his height ends itself to running seam routes and going up for the ball in the endzone. Fullbacks are a poor matchup as they lose on speed to safeties with similar heights, as well as on size and at times speed to linebackers. Even all world receiving fullbacks like Larry Centers are best used on leaks, flats, middle hitches, and screens. Fullbacks really struggle to compete in a game changing manner in the passing game.

While they can produce in the passing game it is limited to situational exploits and smart playcalling. The fullback is best existing as a run player who can account for extra run defenders, create seals, lead through to the second level, and provide the back with a clean read to explode off of. His biggest contribution is taking away one less player the ball carrier has to beat. If you have a good one, he should be able to get you a few tough power yards, catch the defense offguard on a quick handoff, and leak to the flat in the passing game. To expect a significant contribution with carries in the NFL is unrealistic. Triple option this is not. I know there is a lot of creativity that can be imagined with the fullback, but ultimately a lot of that is placing the player in a situation where he is poorly utilized. There's a reason Belichick has tried for the past decade to find Gronk before finding him instead of simply motioning around a fullback.

A couple of thoughts: I've seen Kevin Faulk stand up defenders and release from them better than many of the TEs we had pre-Gronk, I don't see why someone like Peyton Hillis, my ideal H-back candidate, couldnt also function in all of those rolls.

My plan would be to have a versatile guy like that on the field, and just have TFB direct him in the manner that fits the situation. I think this could potentially create nightmares for opposing defenses, combine that with a player who can function as a WR and RB, like our own Shane Vereen, and the no huddle directed by TFB, and you have inception meets Nightmare on Elm Street.
 
The fullback is best existing as a run player who can account for extra run defenders, create seals, lead through to the second level, and provide the back with a clean read to explode off of. His biggest contribution is taking away one less player the ball carrier has to beat.

That's a great point that bears repeating. I hope Bill signs an FB, because I think it would most benefit Woodhead; who I believe could be a poor man's Ray Rice with the right personnel and run calls. Having Woodhead run behind a FB could give help him get to the second level, where he does the most damage. No more getting swallowed up by big lineman all the time.

Pairing Woodhead with a FB is meaningless because his bread and butter is his amazing ability to shift laterally and elude tackles in large part due to his small frame and weight which, physics-speaking, allows him to shift laterally much quicker than the large and bulky linemen who are trying to tackle him.

What we need a real FB is for hard-nosed RB's like BJGE and Ridley. It is no coincidence that our goal-line failure from the last game has something to do with this. I honestly think it was a mistake to let Sammy Morris go.
 
No question an FB would help any RB in a goal-line situations. I just think Woodhead needs more blocking help than BJGE or Riddley most of the time. I'd love to see him in the I-form in an off-tackle run or a toss sweep.
 
Pairing Woodhead with a FB is meaningless because his bread and butter is his amazing ability to shift laterally and elude tackles in large part due to his small frame and weight which, physics-speaking, allows him to shift laterally much quicker than the large and bulky linemen who are trying to tackle him.

Also let's not forget about how well he hides behind his linemen. Putting a fullback in front of him would make the reads much easier for the linebacker.
 
No question an FB would help any RB in a goal-line situations. I just think Woodhead needs more blocking help than BJGE or Riddley most of the time. I'd love to see him in the I-form in an off-tackle run or a toss sweep.

I definitely do not want to see him in the I or OT or toss which would allow the D to anticipate. His forte is the draw because it's so close to the line, and that works in his favor because there's just no time for the linemen or backers to react to where he is going to shift, laterally.

I don't really think a FB would help him because most of his draws are freelanced.
 
Pairing Woodhead with a FB is meaningless

:eek:

Woodhead's ability to do that depends on the space he has to work with, in tight, confined spaces the big defenders have the advantage because he doesnt have the lateral space to move and he doesnt have the mass to knock guys over.

That said, that amount of space he needs before he can turn on the juice is less than the other runners due to their greater momentum and space needed to shift that momentum.

I think Woodhead + nasty FB = more deliciousness than fried banana wrapped in bacon.
 
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