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Twitter report: NFL investigation is more about NFL Officials, not Pats (updated)


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This is my main concern as well, as much as we hope that it's not true.

I just have a very, very difficult time envisioning the NFL admitting to some kind of story that puts the officials in the place of blame. I can't see how there's any way they'd do that.

The only way that happens is if they admit a problem with the process, and not the refs.
 
Sup, you are correct, however, I am looking at it from a more global view. The fact that these dolts, one here then one there, are now changing their tune is key for me. That's one step in the process of having it unravel.
And while this "scandal" started almost exactly a week ago, the unraveling is currently 6 days, 23 hours, 59 minutes too late.

Couldn't agree more, TBS. One thing I'm not sure that I see the same as some other posters would be the manner in which it's unraveling--but yes, there have been new updates that have questioned some of the original findings, and that's good news.

For one example, many looked at the NFL's official confirmation that they are in the middle of an investigation on Friday as somehow meaning good news for us, and I just did not see it the same way myself.

Let's hope that new updates and information continue to come out, hopefully before mid-week, so the focus of the SB can go back to being righted again. That's the most frustrating aspect for me. All excitement that I had was immediately sucked away.
 
The only way that happens is if they admit a problem with the process, and not the refs.

That would be nice to see, although I still think the refs would be in a negative light one way or another. After all, they are certainly part of the process.

Either way, you raise a good point though.
 
Fantastic article everyone should read...especially Herr Goodell

http://www.footballbyfootball.com/column/how-to-mayk-stoopid-nfl-rools
Cheers, good read.

This:
"How on earth can you have a rule about air in a football that makes 12.5 PSI inside the ball legal, but 12.4 PSI illegal, when your game is played outside?"

...
is the crux of the matter for me. I can't say flat-out that the NFL has no basis for this standard, but the idea that the ball could be legal or illegal from play to play based on temperature, weather, dampness, or what happened to it seems unsound logically. They rules of "The Ball" in the NFL are somewhat specific for the size and psi range of teh ball. But in terms of actual gameplay they also grant broad powers to the referee to determine - and, in absentia of another explicit rule, a responsibility to determine - the veracity of the football in play throughout the game.

I guess what I'm saying is while I'm firmly in the camp that I DO NOT believe for one second that there was any sort of nefarious plot to gain an advantage via air pressure by the Patriots, I'm still unclear 1) what is supposed to happen IF a ball that was used for play becomes unfit during play, and 2) what is supposed to happen IF it is determined to be unfit during the game. I mean sure, you throw the ball out and don't use it - but using the D'Qwell Jackson example...what if he'd run that INT back for a TD and the ball was immediately determined to be deflated? You can't just uphold the TD and/or INT because maybe the only reason he was able to catch it was because the psi had dropped below the legal threshold. You'd have to penalize NE for the first infraction on the play, which is using an illegal ball. So it's 15 yds and loss of down. So strategically NE could throw a flag on themselves and have the ball checked. But really the ref is responsible for the ball at that point, not them. So you throw the ref out? (this is all devil's advocate, this is the stupidest controversy ever and I hate myself for typing any of this)

The blowup this week suggests that it's an unfair advantage in gameplay - so if so should the Pats have been penalized yardage had they been caught in-game? Like holding, or PI, or offsides? Those all provide unfair advantages too, and are penalized as such. 5 yds, 10, whatever. Is the idea they should be fined, suspended, or thrown out of the league only a result of not being caught in-game? If someone wore illegal pads or some other equipment infraction and it remained unchecked during the game, do you fine them because you missed the opportunity to throw them out of the game they already affected? None of it makes any sense if you follow it all the way to its conclusion.

Perhaps another play for BB to recommend to the rules committee that it become reviewable - "was the ball within legal psi range on that scoring play?" If it's such a concern that it has caused this much uproar, certainly that's something the NFL would have to admit should be reviewable on a play-by-play basis. Or, as the article the quoted poster linked suggested, maybe...just maybe...the "rule" was always a joke to begin with.
 
I'm just responding to your comment that "I found this on twitter, and these guys have been right in the past."

This is why I simply asked what else they've been right about--considering that they haven't really been right as far as deflategate goes. At least not yet. If what they are claiming ends up being true, then we can all laud them for having connections that all of the other major outlets do not have.

In the meantime, they got a lot of people excited around here on Wednesday or Thursday, when they released their "breaking news" that the Pats would be exonerated of all charges sometime over the weekend. In other words, they've been wrong so far--not right. They did attempt to unring the bell once the NFL did their official announcement by stating that they questioned their source's timeframe, but that was after Friday's NFL announcement.

In terms of them providing picks to their customers (not "news" but rather sports selections), of course they've been right at times. They have a 50/50 chance. I'm not meaning to come off as argumentative at all, so apologies if that's how it seems. I just wondered what else they've been right about in terms of attempting to break major news stories, that's all.

Well they were the first to report that the footballs weren't down 2 PSI, but 1 PSI. Then all the other mediots with sources picked it up. I'd guess they happen to have a legitimate source. Hell, Tom Curran seems to acknowledge that they have a good source...who am I to argue. Anyways, they've been on Twitter with there other "source" provided things...just don't feel like scrolling through about 9000 tweets right now.

As for their business, I'm sure its a bit more complicated than 50/50, with all the over/under's involved.

Like I said, everyone has their opinion on who they can believe or not. You don't have to trust me, trust whoever you want. I just thought it was interesting and I thought I'd share.
 
That would be nice to see, although I still think the refs would be in a negative light one way or another. After all, they are certainly part of the process.

Either way, you raise a good point though.

Maybe I am misunderstanding something but based on BB's explanation, I'm not sure why the refs have to be at fault. As I understood it, BB said the rubdown prep process artificially inflated the footballs' psi by about 1 pound (per square inch?). Anyway, this football was handed over to the ref who could have used a gauge to get it to 12.5 psi, completely unaware (As the team was until last week) that it was artificially inflated by 1 pound. Then over the course of time, even without the weather, the ball settles into equilibrium, losing that artificial 1 pound and is now below 12.5 psi, without anyone having meant it to be so. And the weather on top of it could definitely make it even more so. So how is this explanation blaming the refs? It's the process of preparing the balls that needs to be modified, as I understand it. Did I misunderstand BB? Because if not, I don't understand how all the blame gets laid at the refs. THey may have done everything gauge-perfect and this still would have happened.
 
As for their business, I'm sure its a bit more complicated than 50/50, with all the over/under's involved.

Whether it's one side or the other, you have a 50/50 shot.

Totals or "under/overs" fall into that same category, as do all propostional wagers just as well.

It's either taking the over, or taking the under. Taking the favorite, or taking the underdog. Taking heads, or taking tails.

Like I said, everyone has their opinion on who they can believe or not. You don't have to trust me, trust whoever you want. I just thought it was interesting and I thought I'd share.

No, I appreciate the sharing and don't want it to come off as anything too argumentative. I just don't necessarily agree with the notion that they've been proven to be correct about much of anything, that's all.

If anything, they've already been wrong about getting us excited earlier in the week, which was talked about at great length in many of the threads on Thursday when the tweet initially came out. It took all of about 16 hours for the NFL to prove them incorrect.

Either way, thanks for sharing and I hope they are right in this instance. I just think we see these "sources" pop up out of nowhere all the time, which is why many are skeptical.
 
Maybe I am misunderstanding something but based on BB's explanation, I'm not sure why the refs have to be at fault. As I understood it, BB said the rubdown prep process artificially inflated the footballs' psi by about 1 pound (per square inch?). Anyway, this football was handed over to the ref who could have used a gauge to get it to 12.5 psi, completely unaware (As the team was until last week) that it was artificially inflated by 1 pound. Then over the course of time, even without the weather, the ball settles into equilibrium, losing that artificial 1 pound and is now below 12.5 psi, without anyone having meant it to be so. And the weather on top of it could definitely make it even more so. So how is this explanation blaming the refs? It's the process of preparing the balls that needs to be modified, as I understand it. Did I misunderstand BB? Because if not, I don't understand how all the blame gets laid at the refs. THey may have done everything gauge-perfect and this still would have happened.

You have painted a fine example where the process itself could be questioned, but many here continue with the "refs never properly measured the balls" theory. If the refs indeed never measured the PSI, I'd have a hard time 1) believing that and 2) seeing the NFL admit to that.

Many here seem to have read into the official NFL comments as some kind of admission that the refs didn't measure the PSI of the balls, which is what I highly disagree with. I can't read that and come away with the same feeling.

We still need to have a proper comparison to IND's balls as well, so there's really not enough information one way or another to make anything of an educated judgement at this particular time in my opinion. One explanation is that maybe IND's balls weren't as thoroughly rubbed (no smart ass pun intended)?
 
The NFL has to wrap this up immediately because they still have to investigate the PSI diferentiations from the 4th quarter of the NFC Championship game. Have to make sure that sure PSI was correct. No way the the Hawks win If they usethe same PSI they did in the first 3 quarters.

I really can't wait for them to release all of the PSI rankings for next season, big fantasy advantage. I'm sure PFF will be ranking the equipment managers and ball boys and those who cause the fewest turnovers will be huge in the decision making process.

Bottom line, the run up to the Equipment Manager Draft is going to be scintillating.

Hey, if there a fantasy forum here can we be the groundlbreakers for drafting the equipment manager's and ball boys .As well as a sub forum for refs who do or don't check balls.
 
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You have painted a fine example where the process itself could be questioned, but many here continue with the "refs never properly measured the balls" theory. If the refs indeed never measured the PSI, I'd have a hard time 1) believing that and 2) seeing the NFL admit to that.

Many here seem to have read into the official NFL comments as some kind of admission that the refs didn't measure the PSI of the balls, which is what I highly disagree with. I can't read that and come away with the same feeling.

We still need to have a proper comparison to IND's balls as well, so there's really not enough information one way or another to make anything of an educated judgement at this particular time in my opinion. One explanation is that maybe IND's balls weren't as thoroughly rubbed (no smart ass pun intended)?


A ball boy said refs normally just give them the squeeze test, and I wouldn't be surprised if that's all they did.
 
A ball boy said refs normally just give them the squeeze test, and I wouldn't be surprised if that's all they did.

A ball boy who worked in 2003 for the Chicago Bears? Keep hanging your hat on that one, and maybe you'll win the internet. The standard is a bit different these days. The fact remains that the NFL claims that the balls were properly measured, so that's what we're up against. I'm guessing they aren't going to suddenly change their story any time soon.

I just saw a video this morning that shows the "process" of the NFL refs before the game, and yes--they were using a gauge to measure the air. http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/22/deflategate-video-how-nfl-officials-check-game-ball-pressure/

There were some balls where they stated that "it was close enough," and also some where they had to take air out of, but it showed the process of how they go through it prior to the game.
 
You have painted a fine example where the process itself could be questioned, but many here continue with the "refs never properly measured the balls" theory. If the refs indeed never measured the PSI, I'd have a hard time 1) believing that and 2) seeing the NFL admit to that.

Many here seem to have read into the official NFL comments as some kind of admission that the refs didn't measure the PSI of the balls, which is what I highly disagree with. I can't read that and come away with the same feeling.

We still need to have a proper comparison to IND's balls as well, so there's really not enough information one way or another to make anything of an educated judgement at this particular time in my opinion. One explanation is that maybe IND's balls weren't as thoroughly rubbed (no smart ass pun intended)?

I mean, I think that was also what BB is saying….who knows how IND prepares their footballs, plus allowing for variances is each individual football itself. So I don't know….I mean, I think the numbers would be interesting too but there are too many variables as to why the deflation comparisons might not match up. If Indy's didn't deflate at ALL, OTOH, I think we are now looking at (possible) tampering on Indy's side.

I guess my deal is, Belichick's presser gave an explanation that doesn't necessarily paint the refs at fault, so the idea that the NFL is still looking for someone else to pin it on because they don't want to blame the refs doesn't make that much sense to me, unless they didn't understand BB either.

And sure, they could have squeeze tested them, or maybe just gauge tested a few random footballs and squeezed the rest.
 
WHY BLAME THE REFS?
They are not responsible for the league writing rules that ignore physics and do not mandate constant accurate checking.
Going forward I agree that the refs should do a simple hand job check of the balls during the game and chuck out any ball they feel is inflated improperly to be remedied. Simple. Conforms to reality.

Blame the NFL itself for having stupid rules.
Matt Chatham is right.
 
A ball boy who worked in 2003 for the Chicago Bears? Keep hanging your hat on that one, and maybe you'll win the internet. The standard is a bit different these days. The fact remains that the NFL claims that the balls were properly measured, so that's what we're up against. I'm guessing they aren't going to suddenly change their story any time soon.

I just saw a video this morning that shows the "process" of the NFL refs before the game, and yes--they were using a gauge to measure the air.

There were some balls where they stated that "it was close enough," and also some where they had to take air out of, but it showed the process of how they go through it prior to the game.
What did you expect them to do when they knew they were being filmed?
 
I mean, I think that was also what BB is saying….who knows how IND prepares their footballs, plus allowing for variances is each individual football itself. So I don't know….I mean, I think the numbers would be interesting too but there are too many variables as to why the deflation comparisons might not match up. If Indy's didn't deflate at ALL, OTOH, I think we are now looking at tampering on Indy's side.

I guess my deal is, Belichick's presser gave an explanation that doesn't necessarily paint the refs at fault, so the idea that the NFL is still looking for someone else to pin it on because they don't want to blame the refs doesn't make that much sense to me, unless they didn't understand BB either.

And sure, they could have squeeze tested them, or maybe just gauge tested a few random footballs and squeezed the rest.

This video from 2013 shows the process, and while it's far from perfect they do use a gauge to test them.

I just have a hard time seeing the NFL admit that they never had any kind of starting point to begin with (which is what would happen with no true measurements to compare). They'd look like total morons, especially when you consider the past year they've had, which has been a PR nightmare.

We'll see how it plays out, but it probably should have ended in about 2-3-4 days...tops.

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/22/deflategate-video-how-nfl-officials-check-game-ball-pressure/
 
That would be nice to see, although I still think the refs would be in a negative light one way or another. After all, they are certainly part of the process.

Either way, you raise a good point though.



Real simple question SUP.


Do you believe the Patriots tampered with the balls?
 
WHY BLAME THE REFS?
They are not responsible for the league writing rules that ignore physics and do not mandate constant accurate checking.
Going forward I agree that the refs should do a simple hand job check of the balls and chuck out any ball they feel is inflated improperly to be remedied. Simple. Conforms to reality.

Blame the NFL itself for having stupid rules.
Matt Chatham is right.
Pissah: "...a simple hand job check of the balls..."??? Come on...LOL!
 
A ball boy who worked in 2003 for the Chicago Bears? Keep hanging your hat on that one, and maybe you'll win the internet. The standard is a bit different these days. The fact remains that the NFL claims that the balls were properly measured, so that's what we're up against. I'm guessing they aren't going to suddenly change their story any time soon.

The statement stated that they were "inspected," not "measured," and they didn't specify what the psi was. This memo was written by an army of lawyers. Do you really think the wording is a mistake? If they measured the balls psi-wise, the statement would have made that clear.

Even if they did, we've already established that the psi drop by halftime is absolutely in line with the temperature change. The only thing that matters is whether or not a Pats employee tampered with the balls post-inspection. It's becoming increasingly clear that no one did.
 
WHY BLAME THE REFS?
They are not responsible for the league writing rules that ignore physics and do not mandate constant accurate checking.
Going forward I agree that the refs should do a simple hand job check of the balls during the game and chuck out any ball they feel is inflated improperly to be remedied. Simple. Conforms to reality.

Blame the NFL itself for having stupid rules.
Matt Chatham is right.

Works for,me.
 
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