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Turkish Troops Mass on Northern Iraq Border.

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by wistahpatsfan, Oct 22, 2007.

  1. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    There's no way a northern invasion of Iraq happens without the consent of the US. This is all part of the plan. Bush has heard Biden's plan for partition of Iraq and it appears that he might be thinking of it as a way ot for his party. Either that, or the White House is not paying attention to this impending invasion and, once again, is failing to take the Turks seriously. Meanwhile Condoi Rice is busy trying to broker a deal about the Palestinians by trying in vain to put together a "Summit" of the near east countries involved.

    My guess is the latter. The White House will once again demonstrate their nearly complete incompetence in foreign affairs and diplomacy. Kurds take it up the arse again from American indifference...this time from a new American president who criticized the last one for doing the same thing.

    Let the division of Iraq begin.
  2. fleabassist1

    fleabassist1 Rookie

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    #12 Jersey


    Think congress will condemn them for Kurdish genocide in 100 years?
  3. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    The issue there is the PKK, which is a terrorist group. It's not the Kurds as whole necessarily, but you can see where the Kurds might not be doing enough to stop them from attacking Turkish targets and people. There's a sizable Kurdish population living in Turkey, and if anyone remembers, Kurds were considered the largest ethnic group not to have it's own country. The Turks don't want any of the Kurds living inside it's borders to get any idea's of pulling a Chechnya. The PKK wants to do just that. You can totally see where Turkey is coming from. The problem here is that both sides are "allies" (not the PKK, but Iraqi Kurds and Turkey), and we need both of them on our good side to help with current issues of importance. Ultimately, if the US doesn't get the Kurds to handle the PKK, Turkey will. A difficult decision has to be made here. One that could piss one side off. I'd like to think the right choice would be to move against the PKK.
  4. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No Matter What Happens Anywhere In This World Or In Our Galaxy Or For That Matter Anywhere In This F-cking Universe, It's "Bush's Fault"

    George Bush Killed Jesus

    :bricks:
  5. Turk

    Turk Rookie

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    That is a very accurate description / analogy, RW.
    If, we are all united in the war against terrorism, this is the time to prove it, to all allies.
  6. Turk

    Turk Rookie

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    Turkey will not invade N. Iraq.

    As of this morning, they have crosssed the border and are on the attack, in N. Iraq, wiping out terrorist camps. Once this mission is accomplished and the necessary message is sent/received, they will retreat.

    Don't forget the 1.5 million Iraqi Kurds that Turkey was a safe haven for, when Bush Sr. attacked Iraq and Saddam took revenge.
    They were welcomed with open arms, fed, sheltered for almost two years, in Turkey. The problem is with PKK, not the Iraqi or Turkish Kurds.
  7. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I agree with you Turk, but my one point of contention is that crossing into Iraq is pretty much invading. I think they have every right to defend themselves mind you.
  8. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Generally speaking, I agree. The situation isn't an easy one, which I think is understandable, but the bottom line is that the PKK is a terrorist organization, and Turkey has the right to defend it's citizens. You'd like to see it resolved diplomatically, or peacefully, but we're talking terrorists here, and that usually is a hard sell.
  9. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If this in any way HELPS AMERICA, Reid/Pelosi and the rest of those Democrat bastards will be against it.
    :bricks:
  10. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The "Genocide Thing" with the Armenians, why do some people still hold that against the Turkish people of today, it happened 95 years ago.

    The Germans raised some hell with the Jews only 60 some years ago and we are told not to hold it against todays Germans.

    The Japanese committed all kinds of barbaric acts against all kinds of people China & American and we are now told not to even call them "Japs".

    Why do some in this country still condem todays Turks for something that happened almost a hundred years ago :confused:

    Could this be called "Racism"
    :bricks:
  11. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Please explain this contradiction.
    I coould care less what happens in N. Iraq or SE Turkey. Not my problem. I hope the Turks can act specifically and surgically without harming innocent civilians...I don't really think it affects what happens in the big picture, but we will all have to wait and see the outcome. I know one thing, if I'm a Kurd and I have even a sliver of national pride, I try to kill every single uniformed Turkish soldier I can. This is an illegal invasion...period. It might be right to a Turk, but all Kurds should feel pretty defenseless and humiliated by this.

    Where is the Coalition of the Willing?

    Also, what would happen if the Iranians decided to do the same thing on the Eastern border or the Syrians have had enough with the insurgents on the West border? What's good for Turkey is bad for Iran and Syria.

    More strange bedfellows and foreign policy contradiction. Never good for the US.
  12. PatsFanInVa

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    Actually, Harry, the idea is that we've never really gotten around to the Turkish/Armenian thing. We just say it happened, and Turkey gets very upset. We didn't say "and furthermore the Turks of today are to blame."

    I don't know much at all about the PKK. I know the Turks say they are terrorists, who make incursions into Turkey. I know the usual pundits here say the Turks are invading Iraq for no apparent reason.

    Aside from the "good for the goose, good for the gander" argument, I think the character of PKK provocations has quite a bit to do with the legality of the Turks action, insofar as international law means anything.

    If no central government is exercising sovereignty in Kurdish Iraq; and if Iraqi Kurds really are perpetrating acts of terrorism within Turkey; that indeed legitimizes Turkey's invasion. Basically, the weakness of the Iraqi government vis a vis its warring factions does point to the possibility of a central power vacuum in Iraq.

    Now tell me who is to police Kurdish Iraq, if, indeed, Kurdish factions are perpetrating crimes in Iraq?

    Again, I do not know the details of the Turks' claims. But I am also not so quick to believe in an open-and-shut case against Turkey, realizing that downplaying such incidents from the Iraqi Kurds is, in fact, in US interests.

    So yeah, I'm on the fence, pending further factfinding. If Kurds are acting cross-border, though, you can hardly fault the Turks for doing likewise.

    PFnV
  13. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Why is it illegal on Turkey's part? If the PKK is killing Turkish citizens, and doing so from the safety of Kurdish/northern Iraq, and that nation doesn't do anything about it, doesn't Turkey have an obligation to defend itself? I'd expect them to deal with the matter diplomatically, but if Iraq/Kurdistan doesn't do didly about it, and more Turk men, women, and children are dying, then Turkey's gotta do what it's gotta do.
  14. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    What are we talking about when we say "Iraqi government"? Aren't we talking about Washington? What is the "Kurdish government"? Maybe Turkey thinks they have the right. I'll give you that, but so what? Why doesn't Turkey go to the UN? Aren't they and Iraq member countries? Like I said, I don't care and it doesn't matter.

    What matters is that the US is doing nothing. And that's the same as saying the Iraqis are doing nothing. No one did anything about the PKK and the Kurds have no means to do anything as far as I can tell. The big question is why has the White House done nothing to either secure the Northern border and control or wipe out the PKK? It appears that they don't care what happens and are willing to let the Turks take care of and even annex Iraqi Kurdistan. That way they jettison a big chunk of a bigger headache, making it easier to reign in the Shiites and Sunnis in the south.

    I'm just sayin'....
  15. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    The UN? :rofl:

    Anyhow, were the UN anything but a pension plan for socialists, I'd be in agreement with you. However, the UN is worth about as much as a US dollar in an international market. Which is very little. I really don't think the broader picture here is to allow Turkey to annex part of Iraq. First of all, I don't think that is Turkey's intention, and second, I don't think that would benefit the US in any way, shape, or form. I think the PKK might have some closet appologists inside the Kurdish government, and the US hasn't gone in to exterminte the PKK because of that. That's just my own personal feeling. I think they have to though, cuz Turkey isn't going to sit idley by while their citizens die. Was Israel wrong for going into Lebanon after it's citizens were being killed, and it's soldiers abducted?
  16. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    hahaha !!!.....NIce one!
  17. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Yes, of course. Israel.....We all know how completely innocent Israel has been in their dealings with Lebanon. Always the victim...so anyways....


    No one knows much about the Turk-Kurd problem, do we? I begin by saying that we have no right interfering in ME affairs, as I'm sure you'll all agree :)rofl: ), but seeing how the retard in the White House has gone and invaded and assumed all control and defense of Iraq, I was just wondering why the Turks are left to contend with the Kurds? Why not let the Iranians deal with the Shiites and the Syrians deal with the Sunnis while we're at it? Is it because Turks are better than Syrians and Kurds? Aren't fascists in control of Turkey, too?

    PS:
    I was kidding about the UN....JEEZ!
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2007
  18. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Oh, my UN laughing thing was aimed strictly at the UN, and not of you're mention of them. I know you're not a big fan of the UN. I wasn't poking fun at you.

    As for Israel, my mention of their move into Lebanon wasn't because Israel is the shining light of righteousness or anything. I merely pointed to that situation because it was fairly recent, and somewhat mirrors the Kurd/Turk issue. Israel doesn't always wear white, and I'll be the first to say so. I just felt that Israel was justified in moving into Lebanon in that particular incident, just like I think Turkey would be right to defend itself here. Again, that is generally speaking. I'm not a fan of Israel blowing up bridges and targeting infrastructure as they did.
  19. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So much for stabilizing the Mid east.. looks like a long run for the US.
  20. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    As I said, I think the entire shootin' match rests on the validity of Turkey's claims about PKK terrorism and cross-border incursions. Of course, since "Free Kurdistan!" is not a press mantra, there's been very little attention to the Kurds' case, after the "no fly zone" era. Meanwhile, Turkey has been against an independent Kurdistan for the very reason that Turkish Kurds could be lured into attempting to add Turkish territory to such a state.

    I'm too tired to do the research I'd want to to pick a side here, just now.

    I'm fairly certain, however, that this isn't Israel's fault (or the fault of the "Israel Lobby," whatever that means on this particular day.)

    PFnV

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