Troy Brown on Hobbs

[PushnPencils]

Ok, DaBruinz had you pegged. Off to iggy land for you. Wikipedia?

Well, thanks for the laugh on your last visible post. The Eagles aren't using the nickel position for the loser of the battle between Brown and Hobbs. It's not being used as the repository for the team's 3rd best corner. It's been specifically set aside, regardless of who wins the Brown/Hobbs battle.

This should have been easy for you to fathom, given that the Patriots did the same thing with Wheatley and Wilhite at the start of last season.

This is from Football 101. Just so you know I'm showing you these things because the explanations are simple. You've both lived convoluted angry existences much too long.

"Some teams like to pass the ball a lot. If a team has a good quarterback and three very good wide receivers, it would be foolish for them to leave a receiver on the bench just because "normal" football alignments include a fullback. So such a team will frequently take their fullback off the field and substitute a third wide receiver, a slot receiver. This is especially likely if the situation on the field calls for a pass, for example it's third down with 8 yards to go. Few teams would run the ball in this situation.

When a fast wide receiver is put in place for a fullback, there is a mismatch on the field. You might expect that the weak side linebacker would cover the third wide receiver, but there is little chance he can successfully do this. A linebacker is a 245 pound guy who is trained to deliver big hits, and the third wide receiver is most likely a 185 pound guy who runs like the wind. The receiver is going to run right by the linebacker. So the defense will most likely remove the weak side linebacker from the field and substitute a third cornerback. The defense now has three cornerbacks and two safeties on the field, for a total of five defensive backs. Since there are five backs, this is called a nickle package. If you are defending against a passing team like the Rams or the Colts, it is likely that your team will start out the game in their nickle package and never actually play their base defense. Of course it's very important that your team have a quality third cornerback, or you will still have a mismatch on the field and you are still in trouble."

So like....maybe.....in most cases....the 3rd best corner on th team?

 

[DaBruinz]

This is from Football 101. Just so you know I'm showing you these things because the explanations are simple. You've both lived convoluted angry existences much too long.

"Some teams like to pass the ball a lot. If a team has a good quarterback and three very good wide receivers, it would be foolish for them to leave a receiver on the bench just because "normal" football alignments include a fullback. So such a team will frequently take their fullback off the field and substitute a third wide receiver, a slot receiver. This is especially likely if the situation on the field calls for a pass, for example it's third down with 8 yards to go. Few teams would run the ball in this situation.

When a fast wide receiver is put in place for a fullback, there is a mismatch on the field. You might expect that the weak side linebacker would cover the third wide receiver, but there is little chance he can successfully do this. A linebacker is a 245 pound guy who is trained to deliver big hits, and the third wide receiver is most likely a 185 pound guy who runs like the wind. The receiver is going to run right by the linebacker. So the defense will most likely remove the weak side linebacker from the field and substitute a third cornerback. The defense now has three cornerbacks and two safeties on the field, for a total of five defensive backs. Since there are five backs, this is called a nickle package. If you are defending against a passing team like the Rams or the Colts, it is likely that your team will start out the game in their nickle package and never actually play their base defense. Of course it's very important that your team have a quality third cornerback, or you will still have a mismatch on the field and you are still in trouble."

So like....maybe.....in most cases....the 3rd best corner on th team?

There is a problem with this whole thing... The Pats have used 3 safeties for their Nickel packages.. So have other teams. The 5th DB can be either a safety or a corner in the nickel.

Also, with depth charts, all the cornerbacks are not listed in one grouping. You have a LCB and a RCB. Last year, Wilhite, though he was behind Wheatley on the depth chart at LCB, got the nod as the Slot Corner because that is where he had practiced during camp. Belichick said as much.

You seem to have a problem with comprehending that there are things that are not absolutes. Where Hobbs is on the Eagles depth chart is one of them. You sit there and make gross exaggerations that aren't truly supported by reality and then get upset when people call you on it. Yet, instead of taking responsibility for your actions, you blame the other person, calling them the angry ones..

 

[WelshPat]

"I think Hobbs is the nickel back in a good defense."

This 100%

But remember when Hobbs got hurt in the 07 playoff game against the Jags? Gay comes in and gets abused by Matt Jones. Gay is starting with the saints.

Hey, some coaches are stupid

 

[old 55]

BTW - last night Troy said that the Vikings must have been watching some other games over the past few years and doesn't understand why anyone thinks Favre has anything left.

 

[BradyManny]

BTW - last night Troy said that the Vikings must have been watching some other games over the past few years and doesn't understand why anyone thinks Favre has anything left.

Troy doesn't hold punches. He really ripped on Favre and said that when the Pats gameplanned for Favre, they would say "he'll throw your 4 or 5 picks, you just have to catch them".

As for Hobbs, Felger forced Troy to reiterate his feelings. Troy tried to stay politically correct, and said something about Hobbs being a good guy, while again saying it was addition by subtraction with him gone. I'm sure Felger was loving it...

 

[PushnPencils]

There is a problem with this whole thing... The Pats have used 3 safeties for their Nickel packages.. So have other teams. The 5th DB can be either a safety or a corner in the nickel.

Also, with depth charts, all the cornerbacks are not listed in one grouping. You have a LCB and a RCB. Last year, Wilhite, though he was behind Wheatley on the depth chart at LCB, got the nod as the Slot Corner because that is where he had practiced during camp. Belichick said as much.

You seem to have a problem with comprehending that there are things that are not absolutes. Where Hobbs is on the Eagles depth chart is one of them. You sit there and make gross exaggerations that aren't truly supported by reality and then get upset when people call you on it. Yet, instead of taking responsibility for your actions, you blame the other person, calling them the angry ones..

The only exagerrations are the level to which you denegrate posters with whom you disagee with. The problem is your disagreements are rooted in semantics rather than substance.

Because your disagreements lack substance, you attack the poster personally rather than the point the poster is making.
ie: character assasination. Which to me is absolutely horrible.

Based on what I've read, Hobbs is 4th on their depth chart.

Period.

 

[BradyFTW!]

But at this point in camp. Hobbs is 4th on the depth chart.

That seems equally easy to understand.

Based on what? You have no idea how the Eagles' depth chart looks right now. All that we can know is who is competing for what spot, and Hobbs IS competing for Brown's spot. That's a statement of fact- it isn't even a debate. Hobbs would get absolutely murdered as the nickelback- his skillset just isn't any good for the specific demands of it. Think of it this way: the biggest complaint about him is that he has to give a significant cushion off the LOS. As an outside CB, this is a definitely liability, but as long as he can stay with his man down the field, he can still competently do his job (some would debate even that, but not me). As the nickelback, however, that would render him completely unable to cover his man.

Pasting wikipedia entries won't change anything, especially since wikipedia is far from a valid source. While the premise that hte nickel is your third best corner might have been true at one point (although IMO it's always been a gross oversimplification), it definitely isn't today. AJ Smith, who's only one of the best GMs in the NFL, has outright stated that modern defenses have 3 starting CBs, with your nickel corner as its own starting position.

The premise that the nickel CB is the next guy on the depth chart is about as misguided and plain wrong as suggesting that the third down running back is simply the third RB on the depth chart. As we've seen as Pats fans, it's its own position, and Kevin Faulk owns it. Or, OTOH, it's like saying that, since Wes Welker plays in the slot, and doesn't line up on the outside opposite Moss, he's therefore the Pats' third best wide receiver. It's just not true, and continuing to insist otherwise in the face of logic and facts is just making you look clueless.

I hope for your sake that you're just being obstinate, and that this isn't a legitimate inability to comprehend an incredibly simple point.

 

[BradyFTW!]

This is from Football 101. Just so you know I'm showing you these things because the explanations are simple. You've both lived convoluted angry existences much too long.

"Some teams like to pass the ball a lot. If a team has a good quarterback and three very good wide receivers, it would be foolish for them to leave a receiver on the bench just because "normal" football alignments include a fullback. So such a team will frequently take their fullback off the field and substitute a third wide receiver, a slot receiver. This is especially likely if the situation on the field calls for a pass, for example it's third down with 8 yards to go. Few teams would run the ball in this situation.

When a fast wide receiver is put in place for a fullback, there is a mismatch on the field. You might expect that the weak side linebacker would cover the third wide receiver, but there is little chance he can successfully do this. A linebacker is a 245 pound guy who is trained to deliver big hits, and the third wide receiver is most likely a 185 pound guy who runs like the wind. The receiver is going to run right by the linebacker. So the defense will most likely remove the weak side linebacker from the field and substitute a third cornerback. The defense now has three cornerbacks and two safeties on the field, for a total of five defensive backs. Since there are five backs, this is called a nickle package. If you are defending against a passing team like the Rams or the Colts, it is likely that your team will start out the game in their nickle package and never actually play their base defense. Of course it's very important that your team have a quality third cornerback, or you will still have a mismatch on the field and you are still in trouble."

So like....maybe.....in most cases....the 3rd best corner on th team?

If it was as simple as you claim, then Lito Sheppard would have been the Eagles' nickelback last year, not Hanson.

 

[PushnPencils]

Based on what? You have no idea how the Eagles' depth chart looks right now. All that we can know is who is competing for what spot, and Hobbs IS competing for Brown's spot. That's a statement of fact- it isn't even a debate. I hope for your sake that you're just being obstinate, and that this isn't a legitimate inability to comprehend an incredibly simple point.

Hobbs is competing for Brown's spot....and according to some camp reports not being competitive.

As a matter of fact, the tone of these reports suggests he'll provide nothing more than depth and experience.

So...I'm confident in saying as of this moment, he's 4th on their depth chart.

Kill a guy like Mike Reiss, for saying that if Hobbs were still on the Pats, he'd be fifth or sixth on the depth chart.

It's an opinion. An educated guess based upon all the facts at hand. Nobody has been able to argue otherwise other than to say...I'm somehow wrong.

 

[condon84]

11 pages of people still defending Hobbs? LOL. Belichick had the final say in how much Hobbs' value to the Patriots was: 2 5th round draft picks. That's a cold hard concrete fact. If the organization had thought more of him, they would have gotten more.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Hobbs is competing for Brown's spot....and according to some camp reports not being competitive.

As a matter of fact, the tone of these reports suggests he'll provide nothing more than depth and experience.

So...I'm confident in saying as of this moment, he's 4th on their depth chart.

Kill a guy like Mike Reiss, for saying that if Hobbs were still on the Pats, he'd be fifth or sixth on the depth chart.

It's an opinion. An educated guess based upon all the facts at hand. Nobody has been able to argue otherwise other than to say...I'm somehow wrong.

We're arguing with the premise that nickel back is third on the depth chart, fourth on the depth chart equals fourth best, all because the CB positions are interchangeable. All that anyone can confidently say right now is that he's in a similar position to Lito last year: he's competing for an outside spot, and if he doesn't get it, then he'll be the first backup. He probably won't get it, which should surprise no one since he'd have to unseat a Pro Bowler to do so, but that's what it comes down to. It only makes him fourth on the depth chart if you insist on sticking to an archaic model that doesn't account for the fact that different CB positions are, in fact, different positions.

It's almost as senseless as all of the people who thought that Jason Taylor was going to come in and replace Pierre Woods in the starting lineup, even though he proved beyond a shadow of a doubt in Washington that he can't play SOLB.

 

[PushnPencils]

We're arguing with the premise that nickel back is third on the depth chart, fourth on the depth chart equals fourth best, all because the CB positions are interchangeable. All that anyone can confidently say right now is that he's in a similar position to Lito last year: he's competing for an outside spot, and if he doesn't get it, then he'll be the first backup. He probably won't get it, which should surprise no one since he'd have to unseat a Pro Bowler to do so, but that's what it comes down to. It only makes him fourth on the depth chart if you insist on sticking to an archaic model that doesn't account for the fact that different CB positions are, in fact, different positions.

It's almost as senseless as all of the people who thought that Jason Taylor was going to come in and replace Pierre Woods in the starting lineup, even though he proved beyond a shadow of a doubt in Washington that he can't play SOLB.

Lito at the beginning of last year was the nickel. He got beat out by Hanson.

He was relegated to the spot Hobbs is now. Hobbs it seems cannot play the nickel better than Hanson either.

I don't take enjoyment in demonstrating my accumen as some on here do. I understand the intracacies of modern day football. Specifically, the nickel and it's variations (using a larger safety as the nickel instead of a smaller CB)...etc. I get it.

My point is based upon his current position amongst Eagles corners and potentially how much time he would be on the field......he'd be 4th on the depth chart.