Welcome to PatsFans.com

Trouble within Islam

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Onedaful, Jun 11, 2013.

  1. Onedaful

    Onedaful Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2012
    Messages:
    482
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    #12 Jersey

  2. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ---- JAG ----- PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    36,492
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +24 / 1 / -0

    #87 Jersey

    A huge problem within Islam for sure. The jihadists and those who support Sharia law. Not sure what the answers are for them. We try to remove religion from government. Peaceful Muslims are okay with government/law as long as it does not interfere with their worship. The jihadists believe the only law is that of Allah and no other law supercedes that. Those who believe it does are infidels and what action they take is justified as they believe that is their god's desire.

    I think the entire world needs to make a stand and reject jihadism and take steps to reduce their numbers however possible through laws. Not sure it is feasible but unless we see Fatwah's against them there is no other choice. Even if their numbers are reduced they will increase whenever someone needs a new jihad against a government when the corrupt hijack the religion to gain power.
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2013
  3. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    Messages:
    15,910
    Likes Received:
    39
    Ratings:
    +55 / 0 / -0

    #61 Jersey

    You can't take jihadism out of Islam unless you remove interpretative passages from the Koran. And that ain't gonna happen. Unfortunately, Islam IS the problem, because as long as it exists it will continue spawning radical zealots. It's up to the rest of the world to contain and police it and keep damage to a minimum. While peaceful Muslims comprise the religion's majority, they've done a piss-poor job of carrying the torch. Because of that they need to accept the consequences of being profiled and monitored.
  4. DocHoliday

    DocHoliday Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    Messages:
    2,755
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Nice. So we have Tony "fanned the flames of sectarian conflict in the Middle East" shilling for Neocon/pro-Israel policies, taking a potshot at Islam and advocating for Syrian intervention and meddling.

    This guy has no shame.

    "For the children!"
  5. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    9,630
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +13 / 1 / -2

    organized religion is completely corrupt

    if there is a god out there, he would not have chosen any of the existing religious leaders as the face of faith........


    the organizers had a limited usefulness when humanity was figuring out reality

    as far as I am concerned, organized religion is worse than all the AR-15's put together
  6. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    25,001
    Likes Received:
    32
    Ratings:
    +37 / 0 / -7

    What do you believe the sane world should about jihadists?
  7. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    37,503
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -5

    Harry Likes This:

    I gave up organized religion years ago.
  8. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ---- JAG ----- PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    36,492
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +24 / 1 / -0

    #87 Jersey

    Organized religion lends itself to power and corruption unfortunately.

    I notice in my travels more smaller churches over the years as the big churches struggled. That really had to hurt their bottom line - as in the Catholic churches. Perhaps people feel closer to God in those churches as they are smaller, more personal and perhaps the members feel they can see what's going on internally in their church better.
  9. DocHoliday

    DocHoliday Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    Messages:
    2,755
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Stop poking the beast in the eye and they'll stop bothering us.

    This is a political conflict, not a religious one and if you think it's religious you're gullible.

    Our meddling keeps us on top though, so it's a price to pay. Just don't be petulant and expect the people we step on to bare it happily.
  10. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    9,630
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +13 / 1 / -2

    Actually the multi-denominational chapels like those found at ski areas work for me.......you don't need to be next to people who express their faith in terms identical to yours.....in fact, it is a much more serene setting with a much more hopeful aura which allows the moment to be much more personal.
  11. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    9,630
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +13 / 1 / -2

    Indonesia/phillipines never bothered them.....look at what's going on over there
  12. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ---- JAG ----- PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    36,492
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +24 / 1 / -0

    #87 Jersey

    That's why i included sometimes they use religion to grab power ... some religions have advanced but that religion is the same in terms of power as it was thousands of years ago. Imagine in this country if Catholics and Protestants killed each other ... that's crazy but some Shia and Sunni do it like it's to be expected and it's justifiable.
  13. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    25,001
    Likes Received:
    32
    Ratings:
    +37 / 0 / -7

    I would lay down a large sum of $$ that says if we stopped everything, 5 years later we'd still be reading about jihadists. And then people would say, "It's only been 5 years!"

    So what should the sane world do about jihadists in the meantime?
  14. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    25,001
    Likes Received:
    32
    Ratings:
    +37 / 0 / -7

    Or acceptable when it's clearly unacceptable to any sane culture.
  15. DocHoliday

    DocHoliday Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    Messages:
    2,755
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Do you really want me to describe in length the generations of 'intervention' the US and the UK have wrought upon the Middle East?

    You think they're just going to stop? When you kill/topple governments/extract resources at the level of we do, you make sure their grandchildren hate you.

    Why do people want the bomb? It's not because you're suddenly powerful enough to go toe to toe with the US. It's because once you are nuclear armed, no country is willing to topple your government and invade you.

    Again, if you think this is some religious war you're gullible. Maybe the foot soldiers believe in this stuff (how else can you brainwash someone into a political pawn?), but you don't really think the big money financing Al Qaeda et all are just religious freaks do you?

    This is politics. A game. It's what got us to the top, and as long as we're on top people will be nipping at our feet. Don't hate them for resenting being stepped on.

    Google Wahhabism and see who encouraged it's growth.
  16. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    25,001
    Likes Received:
    32
    Ratings:
    +37 / 0 / -7

    I agree with your points on the root causes of jihad....but I don't agree that we just have to accept retaliation for generations to come. And for that reason, some nations have to develop plans on how to deal wtih them.

    Just because politics are the root cause....jihad has been copied by other Islamic societies as others have pointed out. So if we read about a radical Islamic attack in Indonesia, we also know it can't be about the US or England oppressing their people.

    So we know the reasons they formed, the important question that needs to be answered is how do we put end to it quickly?
  17. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ---- JAG ----- PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    36,492
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +24 / 1 / -0

    #87 Jersey

    They go back as many hundreds and thousands of years as they need to justify their actions ... so no way to win ... you're right.
  18. Drewski

    Drewski Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Messages:
    3,649
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +17 / 0 / -1

    #87 Jersey

    Re: Re: Trouble within Islam

    Re Indonesia... Not entirely true. The US backed Suharto for the better part of his 31 year reign (because he was an ardent anti communist).

    Suharto ran a ruthless, oppressive military junta.... So in the eyes of many locals... It could be argued the US oppressed them by proxy....

    Note that I am not justifying Islamic attacks.... Just that isn't as easy to say well the US never oppressed the people of Indonesia... Indirectly.... We kinda did
  19. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    37,503
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -5

    I agree with a lot 0f what Doc Holiday says, I say "stay the hell away from that stinking slaughter land known as the Middle East, they love to kill each other let them go to it, if we stay out of their killing and if we keep all of our people out of the place and they still attack us then Nuke The Bastards right off the face of the earth.

    LET THEM KILL EACH OTHER, THEY SEEM TO ENJOY IT.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 11, 2013
  20. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,234
    Likes Received:
    15
    Ratings:
    +16 / 0 / -3



    If only that were the case.
  21. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    Messages:
    15,910
    Likes Received:
    39
    Ratings:
    +55 / 0 / -0

    #61 Jersey

    You're talking about spirituality, which often is at odds with religion.
  22. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    9,630
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +13 / 1 / -2

    well.....yes and no.....I've been before, and specifically approach the moment with my own faith origins (catholicism) in mind.....it's funny because my kids made me go before dinner one night.....their faith is strong because of the outstanding (relatively speaking) experience they've grown through at St Gerards in Canton......there are still places with the the framework of the 800lb gorilla where things are still 'good'
  23. Observer

    Observer Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2011
    Messages:
    1,589
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Radical Islam should be eradicated- by eradication of radical Islamists.
  24. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ---- JAG ----- PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    36,492
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +24 / 1 / -0

    #87 Jersey

    We hold the world record for attempts and completions of droning the #2 guy.
  25. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2010
    Messages:
    6,029
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +9 / 0 / -0

    Please do.

    I suppose that the Sunni Osama bin Laden was pissed about our helping depose Mossadegh in Shia Iran?


    It would be news to the sheiks and emirs that nobody pays for the oil being exported.

    You are projecting your own values onto those with a whole different perspective.

    Al Qaeda is a non-state actor. On behalf of which aggrieved regime are they acting, exactly? Your claim that those who think this is just about religion being simplistic stands in contrast to your own analysis declaring the origins to be so simple. There may be many factors, but to say that Islam is not a part of that is just goofy.


    It's Saudia Arabia's top export.
  26. Lifer

    Lifer Banned

    Joined:
    May 10, 2007
    Messages:
    3,293
    Likes Received:
    26
    Ratings:
    +26 / 0 / -0

    "I Will Kill you to death!!!!!!!"
  27. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    25,001
    Likes Received:
    32
    Ratings:
    +37 / 0 / -7

    I hate when people do that.....
  28. DocHoliday

    DocHoliday Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    Messages:
    2,755
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    You think so small. You generate general ill will among a people and it will manifest in different forms.

    Iran has decided to get the bomb and play proxy war through Israel and Palestine, which itself has caused endless problems that we only reinforce through sponsorship of Israel.

    That's one way antagonism of Shia people has led to the bolstering of a Sunni cause (Palestine) that has led to the legitimization of Al Queda among its sympathizers.

    This was only reinforced by the US support to Saddam when he invaded Iran.

    As for other examples, the US funded a coup in Syria, helped crush a revolution in Jordan, and funded a puppet state in Saudi and Egypt.

    All gave up some autonomy to the US.

    The people of those countries were bending backwards in thanks to the US for making their dictators rich at their expense.

    It's better now, but only mildly so. And that's after serious nationalist uprisings.

    Here's how it worked in the early 20th century: the British or Americans would come to your country, take your oil lands and give a small portion of the profit to your leader, turning you into a client state with a rich oligarchy a poor everyone else.

    Resenting being taken advantage of is a universal perspective.

    I don't recall saying their money came from any state actor.

    I don't see any contradiction. Some people are ignorant of history and have no understanding that the US has played dirty to get on top, and that it is not some sort of blessed American exceptionalism that has made this country great.

    It takes advantage of others. I'm fine with that. I enjoy this country and I realize that if we weren't doing this someone would be doing it to us.

    Its naive to attribute this to their religion. They could be atheist and they'd still attack us. If it wasn't under the flag of Islam, it'd be under the flag of nationalism, if not that it'd be under the flag of pan-Arabism, if not that it would come under something else.

    The flag doesn't matter. It's just a medium to unite our enemies. The common denominator is the West.

    And nurtured by us to defeat communism.
  29. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    37,503
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -5

    A very violent backward culture, they treat their donkey's and camel's better than they do their women, their solution to most problems is "death" usually beheading, hanging or in the case of women, stoning.

    Imagine throwing rocks at a women until she is dead, picture it.
  30. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    Messages:
    15,910
    Likes Received:
    39
    Ratings:
    +55 / 0 / -0

    #61 Jersey

    Islam largely is about one thing: controlling women/controlling sex. That's why they see Western ways as such a threat. That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

Share This Page