TripGate Breaks Wide Open: Cimini of ESPN-NY Alleges It Came From The Top

[shmessy]

Well, it's tough to argue with you when you put it like that...

Geez, Jsn, don't you stand up for anything???

I'm guessing you're on the verge of moving to Switzerland and joining their military so you can surrender to someone.

(we kid, we kid...)

 

[shmessy]

And now it's turning into one of those Dean Martin Roasts complete with the usual cameo appearances.......................

"Ah, yes, look who's here now? If it isn't good ol' Mike Florio!" (applause and laughter).

Let the inevitable media mosh pit commence! Round and round it goes, where it will stop, nobody knows......

Westhoff’s accusation against Pats potentially violated league rules | ProFootballTalk

 

[lamafist]

I'm sure Cimini is right, and that Westhoff and Ryan were at least well aware of what Alosi was doing, if not directly responsible for arranging it. Even so, Goodell would be perfectly justified in not handing down nearly so stiff a penalty to the Jets in this instance as he did to Belichick and the Pats in the wake of "Spygate."

It seems to be forgotten -- and in fact, never adequately acknowledge by the media in the first place -- that the hefty fine and forfeited draft pick had less to do with how serious an infraction the league and Goodell considered the signal-taping to be, and was primarily about the fact that Belichick and the Patriots continued to tape signals from the field after being officially warned not to both after a previous incident, as well as via the memo sent to the league not long before.

A lot of talking heads and bitter opposing team-members like to act like the loss of the 1st round draft pick affirmed their claims that the taping of signals was so dastardly and unheard of in the rest of the league that it tainted our team's three Super Bowl championships. But it was pretty clearly explained that it was the deliberate flouting of the league's explicit instructions that earned the harsh penalty.

 

[shmessy]

I'm sure Cimini is right, and that Westhoff and Ryan were at least well aware of what Alosi was doing, if not directly responsible for arranging it. Even so, Goodell would be perfectly justified in not handing down nearly so stiff a penalty to the Jets in this instance as he did to Belichick and the Pats in the wake of "Spygate."

It seems to be forgotten -- and in fact, never adequately acknowledge by the media in the first place -- that the hefty fine and forfeited draft pick had less to do with how serious an infraction the league and Goodell considered the signal-taping to be, and was primarily about the fact that Belichick and the Patriots continued to tape signals from the field after being officially warned not to both after a previous incident, as well as via the memo sent to the league not long before.

A lot of talking heads and bitter opposing team-members like to act like the loss of the 1st round draft pick affirmed their claims that the taping of signals was so dastardly and unheard of in the rest of the league that it tainted our team's three Super Bowl championships. But it was pretty clearly explained that it was the deliberate flouting of the league's explicit instructions that earned the harsh penalty.

Precisely.

Which is why the league won't come down heavily for the gauntlet, no matter who ordered it. The league WILL probably come down hard for the deception and lying to them originally regarding it all being just Alosi and that Ryan/Westhoff had no knowledge of it.

 

[ausbacker]

Precisely.

Which is why the league won't come down heavily for the gauntlet, no matter who ordered it. The league WILL probably come down hard for the deception and lying to them originally regarding it all being just Alosi and that Ryan/Westhoff had no knowledge of it.

That's the crux of it. The incident itself was stupid and deserved a wrist slap and nothing more. The resultant cover up and gate like activity is the issue.

 

[Kasmir]

Ok, but it was the player who was breaking rules by running out of bounds. The dudes were being dinks for standing that close to the line, but they weren't breaking any rules, as far as I can tell. Sal broke a rule (I assume) by kneeing the guy and he's been SEVERELY punished. I think it's over.

First of all, the tactic is to force the gunner out of bounds, so the rules therefore allow the gunner to return to the field of play. There's nothing illegal about being forced out and returning into the field of play. The purpose of the "wall" is clearly to intimidate the gunner by making him worry about the possibility of injury when running the resulting gauntlet -- as explicitly shown by Wall Coach Alosi himself. It's unbelievably egregious for the very coach responsible for organizing The Wall to personally demonstrate that the intent is to intimidate to the point of injury. The practice squad players making up The Wall weren't being "dinks", they were following their coaching.

But the Jets *were* indeed also breaking a positional rule by having inactive players in the area of that wall. Only coaches and players eligible for substitution are allowed to stand within 6 feet of the "Chain Crew and Officials only" 6 foot white strip:

So the Jets coached having players in an illegal location. The Patriots coached taking videos in an illegal location. Belichick took personal responsibility for the positional violation, and he, the franchise, and the fan base have suffered mightily for it. The Jets, instead, are attempting to evade organizational responsibility and instead scapegoating Alosi. And it was the Jets who turned the Patriots in for the video location violation, even while engaging in the same practice themselves. Damn right I want to see the Jets suffer. Karma is a b*tch.

 

[Joker]

..it not me, Mommy...it that bad Patriots!!!!...waaaaahhhh...

 

[AzPatsFan]

First of all, the tactic is to force the gunner out of bounds, so the rules therefore allow the gunner to return to the field of play. There's nothing illegal about being forced out and returning into the field of play. The purpose of the "wall" is clearly to intimidate the gunner by making him worry about the possibility of injury when running the resulting gauntlet -- as explicitly shown by Wall Coach Alosi himself. It's unbelievably egregious for the very coach responsible for organizing The Wall to personally demonstrate that the intent is to intimidate to the point of injury. The practice squad players making up The Wall weren't being "dinks", they were following their coaching.

But the Jets *were* indeed also breaking a positional rule by having inactive players in the area of that wall. Only coaches and players eligible for substitution are allowed to stand within 6 feet of the "Chain Crew and Officials only" 6 foot white strip:

So the Jets coached having players in an illegal location. The Patriots coached taking videos in an illegal location. Belichick took personal responsibility for the positional violation, and he, the franchise, and the fan base have suffered mightily for it. The Jets, instead, are attempting to evade organizational responsibility and instead scapegoating Alosi. And it was the Jets who turned the Patriots in for the video location violation, even while engaging in the same practice themselves. Damn right I want to see the Jets suffer. Karma is a b*tch.

The Precedent is set:

1) Forfeit a First Round Draft Pick
2) Fine the Team & Coaches involved $750,000.

What goes around, comes around.

 

[NJPatsfan26]

The Precedent is set:

1) Forfeit a First Round Draft Pick
2) Fine the Team & Coaches involved $750,000.

What goes around, comes around.

IMO the harsh reality of it is the media as a whole feel sorry for the jets. They have not done this well in over 40 years. So what, they were cheating and got caught, let it go so they can beat the evil Patriots, after all, they are the true cheaters of the league.

Right........

 

[Deus Irae]

Ok, but it was the player who was breaking rules by running out of bounds. The dudes were being dinks for standing that close to the line, but they weren't breaking any rules, as far as I can tell. Sal broke a rule (I assume) by kneeing the guy and he's been SEVERELY punished. I think it's over.

Spygate didn't have the potential to injure players. Thighgate, on the other hand, had that potential from the start. The officials are there to call penalties on the gunners when they don't get back in bounds in a timely manner. In fact, I believe that one such penalty was called earlier in that same game.

Jobs should be lost for what was done, especially in Roger Goodell's "It's all about safety" NFL. Furthermore, the Jets should face an enormous penalty, if it's found that the original story of a 'rogue' employee acting alone and without authority is not the truth.

 

[Off The Grid]

I gotta say...

All this piling ON???

It's warranted.

 

[Tunescribe]

Honestly, I'm over it. The forming of the line doesn't bother me, that gunner wasn't supposed to be out of bounds.

The knee is bothersome, but I doubt that came from the top down. Just a stupid move he probably wished he could take back.

Correction: gunners routinely run out of bounds and back onto the field and can legally make a play (tackle the punt returner). The only thing they are prohibited from under the rules is being the first player to touch the ball (illegal touching). So, it is strategically advisable for gunners to get downfield as fast as possible which includes RUNNING OUT OF BOUNDS en route. THAT is why the Green Beans set up the wall of coaches/players along the sideline -- which, in itself, is not illegal IF the line comprises coaches and SUBSTITUTE PLAYERS. In this case, it comprised a coach and players not in uniform and SHOULD HAVE BEEN PENALIZED!!! I also have little doubt that this maneuver came from either Westhoff or Jabba Wrecks.

 

[Rusty Coupe]

It would seem that the bloom is now off the 'Hard Knocks' rose with the national media.

"We noticed that when you hit them in the mouth [first], they tend to be the ones getting off the ground second," said Dolphins wide receiver Brandon Marshall after Sunday's game.

Added Dolphins linebacker and long-time Jets nemesis Channing Crowder: "They haven't won anything. They act tough, but they're not tough. They're a good team, but they're not what they come off as they are."

Good times.

Jets no longer having fun with Rex Ryan, Mark Sanchez and company - Damon Hack - SI.com

 

[Gwedd]

As I posted elsewhere, the old adage fits here: A fish rots from the head.

It's also true that in almost every scandal, it's never the original action that causes the problem. It's the cover-up that does folks in. :rocker:

 

[RhodyPatriot]

Watching the JETS turn nothing into something is absolutley hilarious.
The Sexy Rexy Ryan NYC honeymoon is over.

 

[Ring 6]

Ok, but it was the player who was breaking rules by running out of bounds. The dudes were being dinks for standing that close to the line, but they weren't breaking any rules, as far as I can tell. Sal broke a rule (I assume) by kneeing the guy and he's been SEVERELY punished. I think it's over.

Hang on a minute. Being out of bounds is not a penalty. STAYING out of bounds without trying to get back in, is a penalty.
Your logic says that if you get held, its OK top punch the QB in the head.

 

[NovaScotiaPatsFan]

This would all mean something if the Commish wasn't a former Jet.

 

[RodThePat]

This piece of **** Westhoff now trying to diverge attention by saying the Patriots do it. Newsflash, douche bag, putting a human wall on the sidelines to discourage players from running out of bounds isn't the problem. Actively trying to trip them when they pass by you is the f'in problem. I don't recall any Patriots' coach trying to hurt an opposing player on the sidelines, and that's what the controversy is all about.

 

[patchick]

My take:

The Jets did only a mildly illegal thing by instructing staff/PS players to line up in the substitution/coaching only zone to keep the play inbounds. That should have just been an in-game penalty, maybe a modest fine and the end of it. Just gamesmanship taken a smidgen too far.

But...the fact that they were obviously instructed to stand their ground and let the player crash into them is more problematic. With that, the league should be thinking about bigger fines and possibly a suspension for deliberating endangering players and staff. (Imagine if a PS player had been seriously injured by carrying out his coach's instructions to put his street-clothed body in the way of a player going full-tilt in helmet and pads? Wow. Lawsuits galore.)

Now add on top of it that the Jets brass got it into their heads to deny even seeing the episode, when cameras show Ryan's eyes focused on nothing else throughout the play. Idiots. Everybody knows that it's the coverup that gets you, not the crime. When you start lying, it makes it look like you have a LOT to hide. And the league office does not appreciate being taken for a fool.

 

[Haley]

THAT is why the Green Beans set up the wall of coaches/players along the sideline -- which, in itself, is not illegal IF the line comprises coaches and SUBSTITUTE PLAYERS. In this case, it comprised a coach and players not in uniform and SHOULD HAVE BEEN PENALIZED!!

I could use a bit more clarification on this area. It seems to me many people have made the point that it IS against the rules to set a wall like this because not only do they make no effort to get out of the way of players from the field of play, but they intend to harm them. We have one player with a knee out, another with a shoulder out and no one from the phalanx so much as flinching at the fast approach of the 200lb gunner. I'm not sure you can equate this activity with a bunch of substitutes and coaches on the sidelines all busy with their own responsibilities. Do other teams seriously participate in this kind of thing? I mean I'm sure other teams have crowded sidelines at times but it is very different to have many people milling about on a sideline than to have a set of people digging in to the trench and waiting to lash out at their first opportunity.