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Treasury Officials Warn Stock Market Could Crash by 1/3 This Week

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by maverick4, Sep 28, 2008.

  1. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    First of all, why are officials trying to force the bailout so much?
    Second of all, even with this bailout, you are only delaying the inevitable, and by delaying it you are only going to make it worse.
    Third, when are Republicans and the Fed going to stop fudging numbers and acknowledge the economy is not just in recession but ready to go into Super Depression?
    Fourth, did anyone else catch the bailout on the US auto industry?

    Bailout failure 'will cause US crash' - Telegraph

    [One Republican said that the message from government officials is that “the economy is dropping into the john.” He added: “We could see falls of 3,000 or 4,000 points on the Dow [the New York market that currently trades at around 11,000]. That could happen in just a couple of days.

    “What’s being put around behind the scenes is that we’re looking at 1930s stuff. We’re looking at catastrophe, huge, amazing catastrophe. Everybody is extraordinarily scared. It’s going to be really, really nasty.” ]
     
  2. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    this is what occurs:

    the bailout happens. the rich get their money from this bailout and move it quickly to euros or foreign markets and in the meantimes those who have no money or money markets still in the US Stock market have just been hit with inflation(after and during the crash)
     
  3. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Oh yeah. We have the new 5+ trillion in debt over 8 years, then we add up to 700 billion in re-securitizing bad debt? You bet. We get to see the market value of our market, if you will, with no extent bubble to inflate its evident value.

    Oh hell yeah we'll have inflation. And no matter what our stake is supposed to be in the future earnings, no, we do not get back everything. The whole point is to make bad loans go away, so the corporate world has money to oil the machinery with.

    Do I like this? No, but if you look too close, you end up not liking capitalism as a system at all. Don't get me wrong, I don't -- except as compared with any other economic system that's been tried.

    But given that world, I suppose in a pragmatic way it is best to say that I do like capitalism, but think that it needs to be strictly regulated. I doubt very seriously we've learned the lesson.

    But for the time being there's nothing but pain coming as firms attempt to pare down their liabilities... all firms, not just the financial sector.

    It's stagflation on steroids, folks. We will still have growing unemployment in concert with rising inflation. And yeah, someone will still be richer than you anyway, as much as that pisses us all off given what we've just seen.

    PFnV
     
  4. MrSparkle

    MrSparkle Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Well, my understanding is that they don't get all the money right away. It's more like a promise. The first round is $250b. Next would be $100b by Signature of the President. Then a final lump sum of $350. It is also my understanding that the money does not go out till they start to go through the loans.

    If a crash were to occur over the next few days I'm not sure how much of it would have been payed out.

    I'm with most people, I am not for this bailout. I'm not sure what the answer is, if any.

    Please, correct me if I'm wrong with my interpretations.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2008
  5. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Why put a title like that when the premise if "if the bailout doesn't happen" when the bailout is basically guaranteed.

    We've argued about the bailout ad nauseum and maybe it is gonna make things worse longterm. But as the premise to this article isn't going to happen, the title is misleading at best.
     
  6. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    I made a post last week about how congress snuck through a $28 billion loan to the auto industry. What a bunch of snakes for doing it when we were all paying attention to other things!:mad:
     
  7. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well, I have to learn all about this added tier regarding the "insurance" we're talking about.

    The Paulson and Son-of-Paulson plans worked by paying companies for bad paper and sitting on it until it is good, thereby giving away a "cheeseburger today for five dollars tuesday," as that Popeye character would put it.

    Some of that paper would become good, some would exceed the value we paid (in theory, in time, even adjusting for inflation,) we hoped. Worst case scenario, all 700 billion dollars is used, and none of the paper it is used on is worth anything. In that case, it is a giveaway of 700B to corporations.

    Hence, the government would be incentivized to judiciously relieve the underlying conditions and forestall some of the foreclosures we'd see.

    I don't know how far we've gone from Paulson to the present. I doubt it's far. I think it's about the same deal with bells and whistles which can be sold as "important new changes."

    I'm sure we'll all study up on THOSE now LOL.

    PFnV
     
  8. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    Do I like this? No, but if you look too close, you end up not liking capitalism as a system at all. Don't get me wrong, I don't -- except as compared with any other economic system that's been tried.

    But given that world, I suppose in a pragmatic way it is best to say that I do like capitalism, but think that it needs to be strictly regulated. I doubt very seriously we've learned the lesson."

    PFnV
    [/QUOTE]Capitalism can be compared to communism in this way imo. Both are fine in their "CONCEPT",but as we've seen with communism if there becomes a ruling class at the top, the system is corrupted. They same can be said for Capitalism. If GREED takes hold and a small group of people gains enough wealth they can corrupt the system. Not only cause the system of capitalism to collapse,but control or come close to controlling the government.

    Total power unchecked or regulated corrupts totally in both systems.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2008
  9. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    What is baffling me the most is the talk about how the democrats wanted to have provisions included that would help the root cause of this crisis...the real estate market. So they're talking about re-working some of the mortgages in danger of forclosure (which I don't like). What I don't get is how this will help stop real estate from declining.

    From where I sit, I see mortgage rates going higher and definately mortgage standards getting tougher. So how are more homes going to SELL. After all, stopping home values from declining can only be done by people actually buying more homes and increasing the number of potential home buyers.

    Any thoughts...anyone?
     
  10. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    I agree with you about not re-working the mortgages. Let the toxic wast reveal itself. A lot of these bad mortgages were rolled with good money into bonds,now every bond is eyed with suspicion as not being woth what its suppose to be. IMO re-working the mortgages is just political window dressing,its not going to help the real estate market rebound. The only way for that to happen is through financial Darwinism the weak (those who were given loans when they shouldn't have) get forclosed,and their houses go up for sale, and the strong (obviously those with good credit) buy them. But as you say there is going to be a backlash at least for a while,its going to be very hard to get a loan. Until things start to losen up a bit again
     
  11. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    [size=+3]Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Franklin Raines, and yes, even Barack Hussein Obama all need to be hauled into court to answer charges of destroying the economy by calling for and writing legislation that FORCED AMERICA'S BANKS to give loans to people with poor credit ratings.

    This needs to happen NOW to save America and the world's economy!![/size]
     
  12. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Here is an interesting study that may debunk some of your beliefs, stating that the CRA loans may not have been the cause, watching this from Europe on CNN may not give you the full flavor.. while there are foreclosures in the inner city, many of these are from investors, there are also foreclosures near the shore and in affluent communities.. this crisis has hit a lot of people very hard.. there are easy answers and there are the hard ones, to blame 3 or 4 people is quick and easy.. you have to look somewhat beyond.. particularly as there have been some very powerful Republicans in Charge.. Reagan(the orignal messiah).. Bush I and Bush II...

    On the other hand, this is anecdotal, I know many people of all races who benefitted from these loans and have had the opportunity to buy homes.. the only people I know who have defaulted are the investors, who are overextended and got involved to make a quick buck.

    http://www.traigerlaw.com/publications/traiger_hinckley_llp_cra_foreclosure_study_1-7-08.pdf

    [
    You can study the demographics also, as these prove interesting as well.. it does not all happen in the inner city..

    Developments : Changing Demographics of the Foreclosure Crisis

     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2008
  13. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    You need major psychiatric intevention. Likee I need spell check.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2008
  14. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Fog is a complete wacko. Somehow it comforts him to pin everything on another political party and absolve his beloved masters of any guilt. Even in a crisis like this the guy sees everything in a partisan way. He is physically unable to see things without a biased lens.
     
  15. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Problem is Europe may have bigger banking problems than the US....
     
  16. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Another major event I see unfolding, after Super Depression finally hits America, is we won't like to see Europe and Russia to get too cozy. Within the next 5 years Russia and Europe may go to war or confrontation, with covert instigation on our part. We will also or either try to disrupt the European Union such that the Euro as a currency falls apart by playing Euro countries' beefs off of each other.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2008
  17. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    Then shouldn't congress be adding another couple of billion to bail THEM out?:rolleyes:
     
  18. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Not sure you'd have to Reid and Pelosi they are writing the current bill w Bush.
     
  19. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey


    Grow up and use normal font like everyone else buster. Seriously, what is wrong with you? Are you 10 years old?

    "My name is fogbuster and I'm gonna use big font cause I'm mad at people!":rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2008
  20. Run DMC

    Run DMC In the Starting Line-Up

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    #24 Jersey

    This bill will pass even though 70%+ of americans don't want it. If you think you're living in a democracy, you're on some good dope.
     

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