Trading with the Chiefs/Jumping the Jets

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by DocE, Apr 21, 2008.

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  1. DocE

    DocE Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    Many mock drafts have either Vernon Gholston or Chris Long being available at no.6 to the Jets. The Chiefs want an Olineman and know that is not a position the Jets will look to at no.6, so they can feel comfortable trading out of no.5 and down to no.7. Even if the Jets got wind of the Patriots interest in trading up with the Chiefs, they couldn't do much about. The reason? They have no 3rd round pick. If the Jets wanted to move up, they would have to use their 2nd rounder in order to move up.

    According to the trade value chart, the Patriots could trade no.7 and no. 69 to the Chiefs for no. 5 and no. 140 (5th round, Chiefs have two high 5th rounders). Patriots give up 1745 trade points, while the Chiefs give up 1736 trade points. Chiefs get the guy they want for less guaranteed dollars and the Patriots are able to get a player they covet (hypothetically) before the Jets take him.

    In order for Gholston or Long to be available at no.5, Miami has to take Jake Long no.1 and Oakland has to take McFadden or Ellis at no.4. I think it's very possible that some combination of Miami, St Louis, and Oakland take both pass rushers off the board before this scenario could unfold.

    For those who get a kick out of screwing the Jets, what if the draft unfolded this way?

    1. MIA- Jake Long
    2. STL- Vernon Gholston
    3. ATL- Glenn Dorsey
    4. Oak- Darren McFadden
    5. NE(trade)- Chris Long

    What do the Jets do now? Trade? who's going to trade in to that 6th spot with KC behind them? Anyone wanting to jump Baltimore for Ryan or Cincy/NO for Ellis would simply trade with Kansas City and take their player at the cheaper draft slot. I think the Jets are stuck at 6 and might have to take Matt Ryan for themselves. I can't see them taking an Olineman with the money they are already paying to Ferguson, Faneca, and Woody.
  2. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Pro Bowl Player

    Actually if the Jets took Matt Ryan, that would improve their franchise in the long run. They have already shored up their offensive line with expensive free agents. Whether or not they take Ryan depends on how comfortable they feel about their current QBs.

    Even if Ryan doesn't turn out to be a Peyton Manning or Brady... but more like a young Drew Bledsoe, is that so bad? Would you rather have had Tommy Hodson and Hugh Millen duking it out in camp for the starting job or Drew Bledsoe? Yeah... I thought so.

    Basically the Pats should take the player that helps their team the most. Screwing over the Jets would only be a bonus and should play no significant part of the decision making process.
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2008
  3. mgteich

    mgteich Veteran Supporter

    It doesn't matter to me that the team picking #6 is the jets. The fact is this team needs Long or Gholston, the same as we do, and we should try to trade with KC, if Oakland chooses Ellis.

    Saying that the jets would HAVE to pick Ryan is nonsense. What if KC refused to trade, and picked Ellis, and the jets picked Long. Would we be screwed? Would we be forced to pick Ryan? Naaah! We'd likey trade down to #8, #9, #10, #13. You get the idea. Or if we couldn't find ANY trade partners, we'd reach a bit for Clady or Otah or McKelvin or Albert. The jets have their list.

  4. BradyToMoss

    BradyToMoss Guest

    I'm 90% with you on this, yet I would have to replace Gholston at #2 with Dorsey (whether the Rams take him, or a trade up by Cincy or NO), Dorsey goes #2, this forces Atlanta to take Ryan with Dorsey gone, leaving Al with his prize in McFadden, he was never interested in Gholston, it's all smoke from Al, McFadden is his pick. Now it's the Chiefs, think about this, they're going to lose Jared Allen, wouldn't Chris Long/Gholston be just the replacement for losing a guy like Allen? Or does Carl Peterson and Herm figure that Ellis will be there at 7 and he's the guy they wanted all along and they get a #3 out of the deal. If I'm Herm and Peterson, that's exactly what I do, deal with BB and grab Ellis at 7. So I see it happening like this:

    1 Jake Long
    2 Glenn Dorsey
    3 Matt Ryan
    4 Darren McFadden
    5 Chris Long (Pats)
    6 Vernon Gholston
    7 Sedrick Ellis (Chiefs)
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 21, 2008
  5. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    This all assumes the Patriots want Long or Gholston (I think we're talking Long as I now have Gholston going #2 to the Rams). Logically I understand the case but I think Belichick would take Ellis over Long which makes this moot - other than I think the Jets are a sleeper to take Ellis because their DL blows.
  6. BradyManny

    BradyManny Pro Bowl Player

    KC could pick either C Long or Gholston though, and that would kind of screw the Jets. I'm not counting on either of them being available for us, and frankly, I've cooled on Gholston quite a bit of recent myself, so I'm not sure how bad I want him at 7 anymore. Point is, if Allen gets moved, it will have an impact more on the Jets than us, as we are likely preparing as if C Long/Gholston are both gone.
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2008
  7. BradyToMoss

    BradyToMoss Guest

    Gholston has no shot at going to the Rams at 2

    "Peter King says one thing he "knows to be true" is that the Rams don't want Vernon Gholston.

    Gholston seems unlikely to go the Falcons, so that would likely leave the Raiders with a choice of Gholston, Chris Long, and/or or Darren McFadden with the fourth overall pick."
  8. midwestpatsfan

    midwestpatsfan Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    #95 Jersey

    You are trading the wrong way. Trade down, not up. The value(which belichick beats into our brain every year when it comes to the draft) is in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rounds, not moving up for:
    A. A good player who does not have a great pass rush and has probably reached his highest potential of what he can do
    B. A guy who is a boom or bust pick, physically is amazing but looked to disappear far to often in games. HAs huge upside but not worth trading up for.

    just my opinion, but I do not want anything to do with any guy at 7 or above.
  9. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks Supporter Supporter

    Well said. The Jest could take RBs Stewart or Mendenhall at 6 to help themselves and not overreach.
  10. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks Supporter Supporter

    I disagree with your characterization of Chris Long (look at his tackle numbers and passes defensed, he's the Vrabel clone in this draft), but I agree the best value overall is to trade down and pick up additional 2-4 round picks. Heck, if we could land Mayo mid-to-late first and grab Ray Rice, Jordy Nelson, and Darrell Robertson from mid-second to early third I'd say this was a hugely successful draft.
  11. PatsandTrojans55

    PatsandTrojans55 Practice Squad Player

    Patriots will not be trading up from the seventh pick in this draft and and if they did it would "Most Definitly Not" be for Chris Long. They don't feel he's all that special as the fans here seem to. They are not even discussing a trade up right now.

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