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Trading a draft pick for a vet

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by BradyManny, Jan 14, 2009.

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  1. BradyManny

    BradyManny Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Off the top of my head, we've done this 5 times in recent memory. 3 with huge success: Moss, Welker, Dillon. 2 which are more forgettable: Gabriel, Starks.

    I'm sure I'm missing more.

    But with the sheer volume of picks we have going into the draft, trading for a vet is a possibility I haven't considered much yet, but it could be a possibility.

    Any ideas of who is out there who a) would fill a need faster than a rook b) has a contract conducive for a trade c) has a legit reason why the team would trade him, and hopefully a reason other than "he's washed up/he sucks"...
     
  2. JSn

    JSn Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I think Bill loves washed up players, when he knows that they still have it.

    Rodney showed up and two superbowls followed. Moss showed up and and a record smashing perfect season followed.

    The key here is trading down to get extra low picks and trading those for these "washed up" (wink wink) players. I wouldn't be surprised to see at least on vet pick up and that we can't rightly feel confident about.
     
  3. BradyManny

    BradyManny Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Agreed. The problem I see is that those "washed up" guys who are actually not-so-watched up are harder to find these days. Some teams have more cap room than they know what to do with, so are hanging onto guys.

    The position that provides the most "washed up/not-so-washed up" players is RB. LdT (hate him) and Larry Johnson (ambivalent) will be available this off-season, but we're set at RB anyway, especially assuming we try and re-sign Jordan.

    I'd be looking at safety as a prime position to find a vet to trade for. Maybe its as easy as re-signing Tank and James Sanders. Otherwise, I'm sure we'll draft one, but depth at that position is thin right now.
     
  4. mcsully

    mcsully In the Starting Line-Up

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    I agree with what you are saying, teams hae more room in the salary cap so they tend to keep them around.. But with the large turn over of new coaches, we'll probably see players being made available because they don't fit the new system..
     
  5. Synovia

    Synovia In the Starting Line-Up

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    Both those guys are signed through 2012 I believe. If those teams cut/trade them, theres a lot of bonus left to be accelerated. If they get cut/traded, it will be after next year. Right now they're cheaper to keep than to cut.
     
  6. BradyManny

    BradyManny Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Good to know, I mis-spoke when I said "available", I meant they were on the trading block, but good to know that their contracts are prohibitive of trade (makes me happy LdT won't get his way) - which is the main reason trades in the NFL for this level of players are quite frequent.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2009
  7. BradyManny

    BradyManny Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Good point...unfortunately we know of at least one team adopting a 3-4 this offseason, and thats the Broncos under McD.
     
  8. billdog3484

    billdog3484 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    im hoping we consider trading for Shephard. I know last year there was speculation he would be traded, but never was. this year he didnt play that much, so im sure he could be had for a 4th rounder or something around that.
     
  9. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    From what I've read, they're planning to switch to the 3-4, but that's going to take some time (they just don't have enough good 3-4 players for it just yet).
     
  10. BradyManny

    BradyManny Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    True. It is more of a factor for the draft where they'll be thinking long term.
     
  11. BradyManny

    BradyManny Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I'd be wary of him. His metrics in 2007 were actually not good according to Football Outsiders. 06 was his best year, lot of pass deflections and INTs, but other than that, not sure he's as good as he thinks he is.
     
  12. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I consider "sheer volume of picks" to be a bit of a misnomer. Prior to awarding of compensation picks and/or a trade for Cassel, New England has 8 picks. We are hopeful there will be one or more picks from a Cassel trade, and the compensation pick projections will be rewarded with at least one mid-round and one late round pick, but that's not the same as knowing NE will have 10+ picks on hand.

    It's also worth noting the three successful examples you cited involved giving up two Early picks, one Mid-Round pick, and one Late pick. "If" this draft is as strong as some have conjectured (and I'm leaning in that direction), then yielding one or more of the early to mid-round NE picks subtracts significantly from the team's ability to mine this draft class.

    The two unsuccessful examples where both Mid-Round. Both involved trading for someone to fill a hole in the team - 'desperation' trades as it were. Your Safety example for this exercise would be a trade along similar lines - you aren't taking advantage of another team's predicament to upgrade a position, you are trying to fill a hole in the team.

    Further, I believe Free Agency rules will change for 2010 if the CBA is not renewed in some fashion: playoff teams will have restrictions on their ability to sign free agents. If that does occur, New England is as sure a bet as any team to find themselves handcuffed by the new rules and the draft will become even more critical for team building. Excess 2009 picks rolled forward to 2010 or further (the way the Pats have converted a 2007 late third into a 2009 mid-second) have to be carefully weighed against a trade this season.

    When I consider all the implications, I'm reluctant to consider a trade unless it was for an upgrade (as opposed to a "patch" trade), for example; if Dallas were to continue their effort to follow Oakland's leadership in dysfunction and decided to remove the "cancer" of Jason Witten - that would be a trade worth discussing. Young, productive, team player being run out of town to appease the wart on the owner's backside - it's a no-brainer upgrade at TE (price being another factor). I'm sure someone wants to use Sean Jones in Cleveburgh as an example of an upgrade, perhaps, but in this case New England would be the team initiating the trade talks, and would now be approaching the trade from a position of "need." Now wouldn't everyone's favorite HC of the CB make that painful?
     
  13. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams pfadmins PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I would much rather see some more "one-up" trades like 5th rounder this year for a 4th next year etc....

    LT is not getting traded he has something like a 6 million dollar cap hit and is signed for a few more years. There is a chance that he will get cut, but that would be a tough sell in San Diego.
     
  14. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    LT is not getting traded because he might never play again, and will almost certainly not be the force he was. Shearing the groin tendon is not an injury you recover from without repercussions.
     
  15. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams pfadmins PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Just reading "Shearing a groin tendon" caused me to close my legs up tight. That has to hurt. Maroney says that he is "coming back" I think that it is a little pre-mature that everyone is writing him off already.
     
  16. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There is significant sympathetic muscle reaction in that phrase! I never thought Maroney was running poorly to start with, I can't imagine a defensive coordinator not game planning for NE's homerun hitter, Sammy Morris doesn't scare me.
     
  17. Isaac

    Isaac Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Somehow it seems Tony Gonzales should be mentioned in this thread. That would make Brady so happy.
     
  18. BradyManny

    BradyManny Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Don't get me wrong, no one has a bigger lust for draft picks than me. I don't have a first born, but if I did, I'd trade him for draft picks. I think the Pats can do some serious damage this April. With talent getting pushed down by all the kids ditching school, yes, I agree, even into the mid rounds, picks will be quite valuable.

    But I am counting on some comp picks and picks for Cassel, and roster spots are always at a premium on this team. The point you raise about upgrade v. filling a hole is a good one, and I would agree with that notion, even if the safety example I brought up does not fit.
     
  19. BradyManny

    BradyManny Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    In general, but this year? I don't know. There's a lot of underclassmen leaving early, and the draft is starting to look deeper...of course, maybe the same will be true next year.
     
  20. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Come on Scottie...make it happen!
     
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