Welcome to PatsFans.com

Traded up twice, should have kept going

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Spiral, Apr 30, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Spiral

    Spiral PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2007
    Messages:
    1,034
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +32 / 4 / -1

    Rather trade back from the second round, it might have made more sense to trade up again into the back end of the first. 48 (420 pts.) plus 62 (284) equals 26 (700 pts.). That maybe gets you Mercilus (though Houston might not have traded), Perry, Jenkins, or even Upshaw, if they wanted him.

    Who knows, they may have tried to do this, but judging by the way the Packers hosed BB for #62, it seems like Bill was pretty determined to trade back, no matter how bad the deal. BTW, I'll be happy if the streak of consecutive years with a Ted Thompson draft day trade ends at 1. Note to Bill: one trade every two or three years is probably still too many--remember Clay Matthews and Chad Jackson?

    As far as needing more picks, here's my take: the Patriots, as everybody knows by now, evaluate players differently. That means they draft some players earlier than other teams would otherwise, e.g., Wilson and Bequette. But that also means they probably have draftable grades on a lot of players that other teams would never draft. They could sign 20 or so UDFA, probably a good may with draftable grades by their standard.

    Take three rifle shots, then change over to your streetsweeper.
     
  2. Big-T

    Big-T In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    4,516
    Likes Received:
    221
    Ratings:
    +600 / 13 / -4

    #51 Jersey

    I do, it landed Gronk, so it was a great trade.

    As for the rest - just no, with those picks they got a violent pass rusher in Bequette, a rugby player, the steal of the draft in Dennard and a WR.
     
  3. Spiral

    Spiral PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2007
    Messages:
    1,034
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +32 / 4 / -1

    I'd trade Wilson, Bequette, Dennard, and the entire New Zealand All Black Team for another impact player on defense.
     
  4. captain insano

    captain insano In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2006
    Messages:
    2,654
    Likes Received:
    22
    Ratings:
    +75 / 1 / -16

    #11 Jersey

    damn it. i wish bb talked to you first before he did anything. damn it damn it damn it.
     
  5. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    Messages:
    16,674
    Likes Received:
    387
    Ratings:
    +1,172 / 5 / -19

    #61 Jersey

    Dennard just might be your guy. And Bequette. And Wilson, if BB's hunch pans out. You can keep the New Zealanders. ;)
     
  6. borg

    borg In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2004
    Messages:
    4,069
    Likes Received:
    114
    Ratings:
    +275 / 19 / -18

    Come on man.....watching the rugby dude punch holes in the kick return wall will be worth the price of the preseason ticket. I want to read twice that players have begged the kid to take it down a notch....but he pile drives them through the Earth...then takes off after a jack rabbit.
    My new favorite player....whats his name....will go all Waterboy attacking Hoyer and Mallet over Seabass' stretched arms. HardKnocks will want an episode just on the kid slamming his head in the wall in the tunnel......quiet leadership
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2012
  7. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    23,115
    Likes Received:
    200
    Ratings:
    +790 / 20 / -19

    Luckily for the Patriots, you arent allowed to,
     
  8. MP-Logick

    MP-Logick Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2011
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Waaahhh waaahhh waahhhh tavon wilson wasn't ranked by mel kiper waaaahhh waaahhhh
     
  9. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,875
    Likes Received:
    108
    Ratings:
    +240 / 8 / -13

    The roster looks terrific going into the offseason.
     
  10. everlong

    everlong Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2007
    Messages:
    5,898
    Likes Received:
    92
    Ratings:
    +165 / 1 / -1

    #12 Jersey

    All I could think of was Wedding Crashers,

    [​IMG]

    I told you not our players. Come on Bill you know it was funny.
     
  11. Boston Boxer

    Boston Boxer U.S. Air Force Retired PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,468
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +54 / 4 / -1

    #75 Jersey

    Dennard will be the best CB on the team this coming year. This was a huge steal of the draft!
     
  12. italia44

    italia44 In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2006
    Messages:
    3,287
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    ...and the quid pro quo in which Green Bay returned the favor with the 3 late draft choices for our 5th?......which got us Dennard,btw....How does that fit with your suppossed "hosing",in the second round?....Favors done.....Favors received....Interesting concept,isn't it?:rocker:
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2012
  13. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,949
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    Please god or a mod make it stop...

    He had players targeted that he couldn't have acquired if he traded up again...

    Some teams had as few as 12-18 first round draft grades on their boards. From there until maybe the middle of the third there were a large number of players with similar grades and so called grades beyond a certain point begin to be less meaningful because internet and media scouts or draftniks or whatever seldom set eyes on these guys other than via highlight tape and most of their information is second hand. Teams weed through a lot of that early on and focus in on targets within broad value and position groups and selection within those groups begins to become about need and fit vs. opportunity. If all your potential fits go it's on to the next grouping. So you either maneuver to get what you want or take what you get or you try to trade the hell out of the whole mess...as Bill has often done in the past to much the chagrin of many hereabouts. Oddly it's usually the same people wailing whatever he does... Because it wasn't what they wanted him to do.

    I really think Bill had a handful of targets and went up to get the first two and just took the next one when the time came and traded back because he could without risking the next and then traded back farther because he wanted a couple of guys late someone else might have taken in late rounds he had no picks in or found it easier to land as UDFA's.

    He really wasn't looking for guys who play one position exceptionally well, which is what lands you the highest grades most of us ever hear about... He was looking for versatile football players with low floors and the capacity to be coached up to potentially high or at least intriguing ceilings (based on what he values). He loves elite talent, but it has it's drawbacks on multiple levels, cost and adaptability and sometimes ego being among them.

    I remember at the end of the season after he was traded Seymour was being asked a lot about the value of talent vs. scheme in this game - and Richard has always been one to point out that talent needs to get yours. But he said if he were building a team he would start with hard nosed effort guys and then just sprinkle in the talent... Fans want top tier talent at every position, but in a salary capped coaching driven league in a physically violent sport that fields 53 man rosters and has no temporary disabled list and sees teams burn through upwards of 70+ players over the course of a season, no team can afford that.

    The new CBA has changed more than the rookie pay scale too. It has changed the way you can develop players (limits on pre season and in season practice) and how long you can control them at reasonable cost (4 years for all now with an option for 1st rounders to remain a 5th year only at prescribed, top 10-20 position rates). Only UDFA's will be potential RFA's soon... The value of the player on the field from day 1 is eclipsing the imaginary value of any pick... Bill is just getting out ahead of the curve.

    Picking the BPA regardless of need or fit doesn't win you championships... Teambuilding to fit your scheme and depth and increasingly versatility 1-53 does.

    I think it's fun (in a savage amusement kind of way) to try and predict draft picks. But too many fans get so caught up in the process that they lose sight of what the goal is (for them or for the team). You're supposed to be trying to figure out what your team will do, not decide what they should do... Teams who do what the fans want them to do generally end up drafting at the top of each round more often than not. Teams who know what they are doing, even if their fans don't understand it, usually end up drafting at the end of each round more often than not.
     
  14. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    42,401
    Likes Received:
    545
    Ratings:
    +1,757 / 78 / -77

    Disable Jersey

    While there's nothing wrong with your idea, I think it's asking too much for BB to bundle up the picks to move up 3 times high in the draft. He's probably still having night sweats from the two he did make.
     
  15. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    7,289
    Likes Received:
    119
    Ratings:
    +292 / 1 / -0

    You're making a huge assumption that a team would have valued pick 62 more on Thursday night than they did Friday night.
     
  16. Spiral

    Spiral PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2007
    Messages:
    1,034
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +32 / 4 / -1

    Ted gets: #163 (26.2 points)

    Bill gets: 197 (12.6 points), 224 (2 points), 235 (less than 2)

    Bill: Thanks for returning the favor, Ted.

    Ted: Sure, Bill. Anytime.

    Al Davis would never have allowed this to happen.
     
  17. Sicilian

    Sicilian Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2007
    Messages:
    5,113
    Likes Received:
    194
    Ratings:
    +518 / 2 / -3

    The fact that you're using the draft pick value chart as a basis for good vs. bad draft day trades is ridiculous.
     
  18. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Messages:
    30,763
    Likes Received:
    519
    Ratings:
    +1,497 / 14 / -5

    Here's some facts for you:

    The leader in sacks last year was a fourth round pick. Jared Allen

    The leading rusher in 2010 was an undrafted free agent. Arien Foster

    The second leading WR last year was an undrafted free agent. Welker

    The third leading WR last year was also an undrafted free agent. Victor Cruz

    The third leading rusher last year was a fifth round pick. Michael Turner

    The number two rated QB in yards was a sixth round pick. Brady

    The leader in INTs last year was an undrafted free agent. Kyle Arrington

    The fourth player in INTs was an undrafted free agent. Brandon Browner

    The leader in tackles last year was an undrafted free agent. London Fletcher


    My point is that plenty of outstanding players are found outside the first two rounds. Many are found outside the draft. There is no reason to believe than any one of the players the Pats drafted from trading down can't end up having a better career than a lot of the names that people wish the Pats traded up for or took if they stayed put. Some of the best players in this league were never even drafted.
     
  19. betterthanthealternative

    betterthanthealternative In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,297
    Likes Received:
    43
    Ratings:
    +129 / 4 / -0

    The grave danger in your presentation of facts is that it will end 50% of the conversation on this board.
     
  20. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Messages:
    30,763
    Likes Received:
    519
    Ratings:
    +1,497 / 14 / -5

    For some people on this board facts have never gotten in the way of a good argument.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>