Trade for T.J. Duckett?

[dhamz]

Duckett would probably take over here as our short distance/goal line back, saving some wear and tear on Corey. Also, if we give up even a third rounder, where is it a lock that with that 3rd round pick, we get a good player?

So, just so I get this straight, you want to trade a 3rd round pick for a short yardage/goaline back?

And you want to do this in a marketplace where a stud, a borderline HOF RB was worth a 2nd round choice just 2 years ago?

 

[tombonneau]

Pegging Duckett as a short yardage goal line back is a specious argument in my opinion.

Yes, he filled that role when they went WCO in ATL, an offense where Dunn excelled. But let's not forget TJ was a good enough prospect at MSU to go in the first half of round 1. He's not exactly Zack Crockett.

So I guess Priest Holmes was nothing more than a 3rd down back coming out of Baltimore? And Mike Vrable was a Pitt castoff who would be a situational pass rushing LB at best?

Look, bottom line, sometimes a guy doesn't fit into one teams system or plan, that doesn't mean he can't excel as a starter in another system.

And people claiming he would be inactive on game days are getting drunk on the Pass Kool Aid. I agree, he looked passable (ugh, no pun intended) as a backup this year, but TJ would be active most weeks over him I would think.

 

[mtbykr]

wow

Your bottom line it wrong. Duckett may have had that line for two years however he has been in the league for four. His first two seasons he didn't have the great line and Vick had a broken leg one of the seasons. This was his best season. How do you account for this? Your theory is off. Besides, you are again incorrect when you throw out how he may not be able to function as a role player not being active each week. Excuse me, did you happen to see Atlanta this year, or are you making an opinion based on ignorance? Dunn had +1400 yds this year and Duckett was a role player. Please do your homework before spouting off.

did someone pee in your cornflakes this morning?

So just so i am correct--you want to drop a 3rd round or 4th round on a guy who will ride the bench unless someone get's hurt???

Besides, you are again incorrect when you throw out how he may not be able to function as a role player not being active each week. Excuse me, did you happen to see Atlanta this year, or are you making an opinion based on ignorance? Dunn had +1400 yds this year and Duckett was a role player. Please do your homework before spouting off

Ok, a role player is different than being a 2nd string back. Your whole theory is based on the fact that duckett is a role playe when in fact he was a 2nd string back---he would be a 4th string here most likely! If we take duckett as you want--he just doesn't go in and replace faulk as #2 (he was #2 in atlanta this year behind dunn). You want him to come in and be around in case of injury so we don't have to sign an evans or zeroea type guy. However we didn't have them taking up a roster spot this year until we had injuries and needed to go out and get someone. Generally speaking (past pats teams) they don't throw a roster spot to a guy like duckett "just in case". We had all 3 of our backs go down this year (which isn't normal) and had to go to the street to fine a "temp" guy. If we hae the same injuries next year i would be in favor (if we could do it) of brining in a "duckett" type to fill a role---but i don't think it's smart to waste a roster spot for a guy who "may play if someone else get's injured) becuase unless corey goes down i don't see a need for the guy so why waste a spot and a pick on it?

 

[mtbykr]

well

Pegging Duckett as a short yardage goal line back is a specious argument in my opinion.

Yes, he filled that role when they went WCO in ATL, an offense where Dunn excelled. But let's not forget TJ was a good enough prospect at MSU to go in the first half of round 1. He's not exactly Zack Crockett.

So I guess Priest Holmes was nothing more than a 3rd down back coming out of Baltimore? And Mike Vrable was a Pitt castoff who would be a situational pass rushing LB at best?

Look, bottom line, sometimes a guy doesn't fit into one teams system or plan, that doesn't mean he can't excel as a starter in another system.

And people claiming he would be inactive on game days are getting drunk on the Pass Kool Aid. I agree, he looked passable (ugh, no pun intended) as a backup this year, but TJ would be active most weeks over him I would think.

You may be correct on this. I am merely pointing out that BB has kept him (pass) around quite a while,,,and i am sure he has done it for a reason. I think it all goes back to priorities, and i think that we have things that could use our attention more than a backup for corey! just my opinion...

 

[tombonneau]

did someone pee in your cornflakes this morning?

So just so i am correct--you want to drop a 3rd round or 4th round on a guy who will ride the bench unless someone get's hurt???

OK, so under this argument you expect everything 3rd & 4th round draft pick to come in and start immediately? Newsflash.

Any player we draft in 3/4 is not going to be counted to start -- EXCEPT IN CASE OF INJURY.

And if you think Faulk & Pass can start for the season if Dillon tears an ACL in week 3, you haven't been watching the Patriots for the last 5 years.

Duckett could come in and maybe rush for 1500 yards if he had the full season.

No one else on our roster could.

So yes, I'd say he is worth a 3rd or 4th.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

You may be correct on this. I am merely pointing out that BB has kept him (pass) around quite a while,,,and i am sure he has done it for a reason. I think it all goes back to priorities, and i think that we have things that could use our attention more than a backup for corey! just my opinion...

After the season we just witnessed I'm not sure how anyone can make the argument that getting the running game back on track and insuring it is a viable option even in the face of injury is not a pretty high priority. Part of the problem was likely the Oline, but part of it was the effectiveness and durability of the RB's. Whatever else they are, Pass and Faulk are not credible backups for Dillon, and after this season there is no guarantee Dillon remains an every down back. Creating a legitimate 1-2 punch like Pittsburgh and a number of other teams maintain would seem to be in order.

 

[mtbykr]

what

OK, so under this argument you expect everything 3rd & 4th round draft pick to come in and start immediately? Newsflash.

please point out where i said this, becuase i don't remember saying it! I am saying that i don't think it's worth spending a 3rd or 4th rounder on a guy who will be a corey backup---when it's not what we are in need of now (at least not 1st in line of needs)

Any player we draft in 3/4 is not going to be counted to start -- EXCEPT IN CASE OF INJURY.

Asante started for us this year (he's a 4th rounder) Hobbs was a 3rd rounder, ect....i know you can't expect anything, but the pats have a great draft history!

And if you think Faulk & Pass can start for the season if Dillon tears an ACL in week 3, you haven't been watching the Patriots for the last 5 years.

and duckett could come in an blow out his knee in the pre-season,,that's not an argument. The bottom line is whether you think so or not, faulk and pass have been good enough in their roles the past couple years (1 ring and this year that we don't need to go into).

Duckett could come in and maybe rush for 1500 yards if he had the full season.

No one else on our roster could.

So yes, I'd say he is worth a 3rd or 4th.

How do you know this? Corey could rush for 1600 yards again if he and the line stay healthy! First you say he will be a role player, now you say given the chance of a full season he could rush for 1500 yards--which is it?

The bottom line is this--you think he's worth a 3rd or 4th rounder so he could be a 4th string backup in case someone else gets injured! I don't think (while i wouldn't mind having him) it's worth the draft pick and roster spot to have a "just in case" type guy of his caliber. If we get him, great---but our history dictates that we will not take him!

 

[mtbykr]

well

After the season we just witnessed I'm not sure how anyone can make the argument that getting the running game back on track and insuring it is a viable option even in the face of injury is not a pretty high priority. Part of the problem was likely the Oline, but part of it was the effectiveness and durability of the RB's. Whatever else they are, Pass and Faulk are not credible backups for Dillon, and after this season there is no guarantee Dillon remains an every down back. Creating a legitimate 1-2 punch like Pittsburgh and a number of other teams maintain would seem to be in order.

Yes we need to get the running game back on track---i never said that we didn't. I don't think however that it is our 1st or high priority. ( at least not from the RB perspective). I think the biggest problem was our line and injuries--people see that corey had an off year (in which he was injured the whole time) and want to remake the backfield that won the superbowl the year before (and went far injuries not withstanding this year). Our running game def needs help, no one is questioning that--we just differ on how to do it!

We really don't know what kind of shape dillion is in. is he losing a step, is he injured real bad, ect... but BB knows and will address it accordingly! The way our offense is set up, we have corey and then faulk as a change of pace back. Getting ducket for a backup would not allow us to keep the opposing D off guard with the threat of faulk (who i prefer as a backup to dillion--as he is great at coming out of teh backfield on 3rd down)

Now, i am unclear on what you want to do however? You want a legitimate 1-2 punch--------who do you want in that 1-2 punch?

 

[Digger44]

did someone pee in your cornflakes this morning?

So just so i am correct--you want to drop a 3rd round or 4th round on a guy who will ride the bench unless someone get's hurt???



Ok, a role player is different than being a 2nd string back. Your whole theory is based on the fact that duckett is a role playe when in fact he was a 2nd string back---he would be a 4th string here most likely! If we take duckett as you want--he just doesn't go in and replace faulk as #2 (he was #2 in atlanta this year behind dunn). You want him to come in and be around in case of injury so we don't have to sign an evans or zeroea type guy. However we didn't have them taking up a roster spot this year until we had injuries and needed to go out and get someone. Generally speaking (past pats teams) they don't throw a roster spot to a guy like duckett "just in case". We had all 3 of our backs go down this year (which isn't normal) and had to go to the street to fine a "temp" guy. If we hae the same injuries next year i would be in favor (if we could do it) of brining in a "duckett" type to fill a role---but i don't think it's smart to waste a roster spot for a guy who "may play if someone else get's injured) becuase unless corey goes down i don't see a need for the guy so why waste a spot and a pick on it?

1. You totally missed the point. if you had any clue about Atlanta you would know that with their WCO Duckett became a role player. Before the WCO Dunn/Duckett were RBBC. This year Dunn had 1400 yards and was healthy all season. Duckett's role became a goaline back because of the WCO. It is beside the point that he is listed as the 2nd string Atlanta RB if he doesnt have playing time.

2. Who ever said he would ride the bench? Get him to camp and let him compete. I feel he will draw attention to more then riding the bench. The thought also is that we want a RB who has a future. I could see CD and Duckett splitting time with KF as the 3rd down back. It would extend the life of CD. I think PP would be keep his role of the backup. There is a reason that Duckett is the #2 back in Atlanta. He is a good north/south runner. The WCO has just thrown him out of the mix.

3. List the last year that Faulk didn't get hurt. It has been a while. It would be a waste to get a 3rd down back just in case. Duckett could be the future featured back.

4. Nobody did anything to my cornflakes. I just dont appreciate people who make statements that they do not have a grasp upon the identity of a player in question.

 

[unearth]

T.J. Duckett is not just a short yardage goal line back. This guy is 6 ft 254 pounds but he is not slow. He was timed as fast as 4.37 in the 40 coming out of college. Tell me, how many short yardage backs are that fast? He can be the main running back in our offense without a problem imho. Atlanta runs a completely different system than us, so it is understandable how the guy could be used differently. This guy is really young at 24 and has not taken much of a beating at all. If anything he can give us anywhere from 5-10 carries a game to keep Dillon fresh and once Dillon is winding down (which I expect within one or two years), he can take over as our starting rb. I've been following this guy since he was a freshman at MSU. The man is a beast and if given an opportunity in the right system will flourish and pound defenses into submission.

 

[cubedoggy]

There's been rumors recently that the Falcons are shopping Duckett around the league and are looking to get something for him this off-season. I think that T.J. would be a great fit here to back up Dillon and eventually replace Dillon as our future starting RB. He's still very young at 24 and since he hasnt been the full-time starting rb in Atlanta, he hasnt taken much of a pounding. I think that a 3rd or 4th round pick would be enough to get it done. What do you guys think about Duckett and would he be worth that price?

Not when we could probably bring Antowain Smith back to do the same thing w/o giving up a draft pick.

I'd rather see a 3rd used to draft for the future.

 

[Digger44]

T.J. Duckett is not just a short yardage goal line back. This guy is 6 ft 254 pounds but he is not slow. He was timed as fast as 4.37 in the 40 coming out of college. Tell me, how many short yardage backs are that fast? He can be the main running back in our offense without a problem imho. Atlanta runs a completely different system than us, so it is understandable how the guy could be used differently. This guy is really young at 24 and has not taken much of a beating at all. If anything he can give us anywhere from 5-10 carries a game to keep Dillon fresh and once Dillon is winding down (which I expect within one or two years), he can take over as our starting rb. I've been following this guy since he was a freshman at MSU. The man is a beast and if given an opportunity in the right system will flourish and pound defenses into submission.

i believe this whole heartedly, but others refuse to see it this way.

 

[mtbykr]

well

1. You totally missed the point. if you had any clue about Atlanta you would know that with their WCO Duckett became a role player. Before the WCO Dunn/Duckett were RBBC. This year Dunn had 1400 yards and was healthy all season. Duckett's role became a goaline back because of the WCO. It is beside the point that he is listed as the 2nd string Atlanta RB if he doesnt have playing time.

2. Who ever said he would ride the bench? Get him to camp and let him compete. I feel he will draw attention to more then riding the bench. The thought also is that we want a RB who has a future. I could see CD and Duckett splitting time with KF as the 3rd down back. It would extend the life of CD. I think PP would be keep his role of the backup. There is a reason that Duckett is the #2 back in Atlanta. He is a good north/south runner. The WCO has just thrown him out of the mix.

3. List the last year that Faulk didn't get hurt. It has been a while. It would be a waste to get a 3rd down back just in case. Duckett could be the future featured back.

4. Nobody did anything to my cornflakes. I just dont appreciate people who make statements that they do not have a grasp upon the identity of a player in question.

Sorry i took this statement to mean you wanted him on the roster as a backup:

NFL teams usually keep more than 3 RBs on the roster. Any RB we take would replace Evans or Cloud or whatever other street jag is puttering around on the bottom of the roster.

My point was that I didn't think we should waste the pick or spot on a "evans or cloud" type guy when they were not here at the beggining of the year anyway.
-----------------------------------------

I understand what atlanta runs, and have seen them a lot here in the Vick crazed part of central va. We obviously run a different style of offense here, and i am sure that duckett would be great to have if corey goes down. However Corey is a much different guy than Dunn is, so as you say, he would likely split time with corey while keeping KF the "change of pace" back. I just wonder how much time we are willing to take away form corey if he is healthy--to give to duckett? I guess i just don't see Duckett as the new full time RB when we lose corey in the future!

anyone know what duckett's cap hit is next year??

 

[Digger44]

Not when we could probably bring Antowain Smith back to do the same thing w/o giving up a draft pick.

I'd rather see a 3rd used to draft for the future.

excuse you? how in the world can you try comparing a 24 yr old who runs a 4.40 to an old man who cannot pass a conditioning test. please do not enter a conversation with foolishness.

 

[Digger44]

Sorry i took this statement to mean you wanted him on the roster as a backup:




My point was that I didn't think we should waste the pick or spot on a "evans or cloud" type guy when they were not here at the beggining of the year anyway.
-----------------------------------------

I understand what atlanta runs, and have seen them a lot here in the Vick crazed part of central va. We obviously run a different style of offense here, and i am sure that duckett would be great to have if corey goes down. However Corey is a much different guy than Dunn is, so as you say, he would likely split time with corey while keeping KF the "change of pace" back. I just wonder how much time we are willing to take away form corey if he is healthy--to give to duckett? I guess i just don't see Duckett as the new full time RB when we lose corey in the future!

anyone know what duckett's cap hit is next year??

these are good thoughts. i dont see duckett taking time from corey. i see him earning it. we have 5 million invested in corey next year. it may not be a bad idea to protect that investment by giving corey some rest, and keeping him healthy. last year duckett was $434,000 on atlanta's cap, so i dont foresee it being over 1 million.

 

[tombonneau]

please point out where i said this, becuase i don't remember saying it! I am saying that i don't think it's worth spending a 3rd or 4th rounder on a guy who will be a corey backup---when it's not what we are in need of now (at least not 1st in line of needs)



Asante started for us this year (he's a 4th rounder) Hobbs was a 3rd rounder, ect....i know you can't expect anything, but the pats have a great draft history!

and duckett could come in an blow out his knee in the pre-season,,that's not an argument. The bottom line is whether you think so or not, faulk and pass have been good enough in their roles the past couple years (1 ring and this year that we don't need to go into).




How do you know this? Corey could rush for 1600 yards again if he and the line stay healthy! First you say he will be a role player, now you say given the chance of a full season he could rush for 1500 yards--which is it?

The bottom line is this--you think he's worth a 3rd or 4th rounder so he could be a 4th string backup in case someone else gets injured! I don't think (while i wouldn't mind having him) it's worth the draft pick and roster spot to have a "just in case" type guy of his caliber. If we get him, great---but our history dictates that we will not take him!

MT, my point re: you not wanting to waste a 3rd or 4th this year on a backup is most 3/4 picks are backups their first year in the league, unless they are extremely impressiev or someone gets hurt. I think only 1/2 can really be counted on to make an impact and potentialy start Year 1.

Therefore, I don't see a 3/4 on TJ as a waste of a pick if Dillon stays healthy and he only rushes for 400 yds. Heck, he's so young (24) that even if he sits behind Dillon for two years he could still come in and start productively for 3-4 yrs if he works out.

And yes, Faulk & Pass were good enough to get us to the playoffs, but do you really want Brady dropping back 65% of the time every year?

Just bc we can win in spite of certain players doesn't mean we shoudln't try to improve that position.

 

[cubedoggy]

excuse you? how in the world can you try comparing a 24 yr old who runs a 4.40 to an old man who cannot pass a conditioning test. please do not enter a conversation with foolishness.

Hey, listen, other posters will put up w/ your abuse, but not I.

Why would the Pats blow a high pick on a player who will hit the cap at a veteran rate (he's signed through only the end of next season), when all he has shown is potential to be what you say he is? Investing that pick in a cheaper contract on a guy who can learn the Pats' system and has not been sullied by Mora Jr.'s "the players are my budds" laissez-faire coaching seems like a smarter way to go.

Antowain was just an example, but if a short-yardage back to spell Corey is what's needed, they're out there, for no draft picks.

A 3rd for Duckett is lunacy, but what more can be expected of you. You have your opinions and accept none that do not agree w/ yours 100%.

 

[mtbykr]

well

these are good thoughts. i dont see duckett taking time from corey. i see him earning it. we have 5 million invested in corey next year. it may not be a bad idea to protect that investment by giving corey some rest, and keeping him healthy. last year duckett was $434,000 on atlanta's cap, so i dont foresee it being over 1 million.

Look, if getting corey (and we are blinded by the BB machine of not letting us know much) some split time will keep him healthier and more productive ect...then i am all for it. He is although just one year removed from a 1600 yard season---so i tend to chalk up this year to the injuries of him and the o-line. If we do this however i don't see us keeping 4 backs, so pass would go. (even though BB has kept him around for quite a while for some reason)

As far as salary goes, i am sure by the end of next year (i think that's when his contract is up)--he's gonna want to get paid so we will have to deal with that as well!

I think where our opinions differ is basically this: I think i would rather spend the 3rd or 4th rounder on another area OR on a back that can compete in camp and if he doesn't make the team we can keep him on a "futures or practice squad" type until he is ready and a bigger need arises!

I guess we will see what happens!

 

[mtbykr]

well

MT, my point re: you not wanting to waste a 3rd or 4th this year on a backup is most 3/4 picks are backups their first year in the league, unless they are extremely impressiev or someone gets hurt. I think only 1/2 can really be counted on to make an impact and potentialy start Year 1.

Therefore, I don't see a 3/4 on TJ as a waste of a pick if Dillon stays healthy and he only rushes for 400 yds. Heck, he's so young (24) that even if he sits behind Dillon for two years he could still come in and start productively for 3-4 yrs if he works out.

the only problem with that is that his contract is up after next year (i think) and we don't know what he will expect for a new deal. If he wants some "healthy money" then we just blew a spot and pick on a back up for corey!

And yes, Faulk & Pass were good enough to get us to the playoffs, but do you really want Brady dropping back 65% of the time every year?

Just bc we can win in spite of certain players doesn't mean we shoudln't try to improve that position.

No i don't want him doing that--but i also don't expect us to be 5 RB's deep becuase of injury next year. The reason he had to do that was becuase of the injuries to the line and RB's--but also becuase we needed to score a lot of points becuase our D sucked earlier in the year!

 

[Digger44]

Hey, listen, other posters will put up w/ your abuse, but not I.

Why would the Pats blow a high pick on a player who will hit the cap at a veteran rate (he's signed through only the end of next season), when all he has shown is potential to be what you say he is? Investing that pick in a cheaper contract on a guy who can learn the Pats' system and has not been sullied by Mora Jr.'s "the players are my budds" laissez-faire coaching seems like a smarter way to go.

Antowain was just an example, but if a short-yardage back to spell Corey is what's needed, they're out there, for no draft picks.

A 3rd for Duckett is lunacy, but what more can be expected of you. You have your opinions and accept none that do not agree w/ yours 100%.

1.) grammatically speaking you should have stated, "not me" not "not I"
2.) you act as if a vets salary hit on a cap is a bad thing. why? a vet min is great!
3.) you obviously have not been reading the thread because if you had you would have known that we were not talking about duckett being a short-yardage back. Who ever said this is what we want?
4.) "A 3rd for Duckett is lunacy, but what more can be expected of you. You have your opinions and accept none that do not agree w/ yours 100%." Stop whining you sound like Peyton Manning.
5.) It certainly is not my way or nothing at all, however I do not appreciate foolishness placed in a post when it is obvious that the poster has no idea what he is talking about. this is evidenced from two sources. #1--you had no idea we were discussing a full time future back, not someone to spell corey. #2--comparing duckett to smith is the lunacy you speak of. you still did not address how you compare a 24 yr old, 6ft, 250lb back who runs a 4.4 to a old man who can't pass a conditioning test. how do you come up with your thoughts that they are similar? what is your reasoning?