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Discussion in 'Red Sox Fan Forum' started by WhiskeyBreath, Jul 28, 2009.

  1. WhiskeyBreath

    WhiskeyBreath 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Figured we could have one big thread for all the rumors for the fast approaching deadline. It's always a hectic few days and full of crazy rumors. I love the trade deadline.

    Sox just dealt Kotsay for Brian Anderson. Pretty irrelevant deal but at least we get something for the guy we just DFA.

    Yahoo's Gordon Edes reports that the Red Sox offered Clay Buchholz, Michael Bowden and Ryan Westmoreland to the Blue Jays for Halladay.

    That's quite a haul for Toronto but I would do it.
     
  2. efin98

    efin98 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    That's two guys brought in for two DFAs in just over a week...the Lugo trade brought outfielder Chris Duncan last weekend.

    They also traded minor leaguers Argenis Diaz and Hunter Strickland for Adam LaRoche.

    I think it's a fair deal for the Red Sox, I'm not so sure it was enough for Toronto- their star pitcher for a guy who is trying to get back into the big leagues, a guy who is maybe a year or two away from being a consistent starter, and a slugger who won't see the big leagues for about two or three seasons...I can see why it went nowhere.

    I'd like to get Halladay and sign him long term, but the cost might not be worth it when they could wait out his current contract and get him for a higher price but without the loss of prospects.
     
  3. WhiskeyBreath

    WhiskeyBreath 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    The Jays haven't rejected that deal. It was jus offered. I'm sure that won't be the final package anyway. Maybe a 3 team deal.
     
  4. Synovia

    Synovia In the Starting Line-Up

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    We're talking a guy who is a step away from being a #1, a guy who is a step away from being a #3, both major league ready, cost controlled for 6 years. Thats 40% of your rotation for the next 6 year, plus a guy whose upside is essentially Yaz.
     
  5. Synovia

    Synovia In the Starting Line-Up

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    Thats not an option though. He intends to be an FA in 18 months.
     
  6. efin98

    efin98 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    that guy who is a step away from being a #1 also had a terrible year in the majors last year, and about the only way he is a #1 is if he is playing for a perenial loser like the Orioles or Royals. Sorry but I don't see him as ever being that high for anyone, would be at best to me a decent #3 starter with solid couple of years ahead before the bottom falls out.

    I don't see it as coming close to what they will be giving up in Halladay...
     
  7. efin98

    efin98 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    See later on in the post...I made the point of waiting on him and giving up only money in the free agent market to get him.
     
  8. Double G

    Double G In the Starting Line-Up

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    You want to wait a year and a half when the guy is 34 and has more miles on his arm and then shell out a raftload of dough to sign him on the back 9 of his career?

    And not to mention Beckett will be a free agent at that time too, so you'll need to spend on him or else he'll walk.

    No thanks, either sack up, make the trade now or forget it.

    This is what your minor league system is for; to build a up talent that you can trade away for a proven star.

    Make the deal and the WS is ours.

    Beckett, Lester, Halladay=WS title #3 this decade.

    Make it happen Theo.
     
  9. scout

    scout Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #15 Jersey

     
  10. efin98

    efin98 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Congratulations, you have turned the Red Sox into the Yankees of the 90s. Strip the minors of talent and trade every top prospect for the flavor of the moment...
     
  11. WhiskeyBreath

    WhiskeyBreath 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Halladay is the flavor of the moment? :rolleyes: The guy is one of the best.
     
  12. efin98

    efin98 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    He is this trade deadline and will be this upcoming off season and next deadline if he isn't traded this year...

    But still why trade away their top prospects when they can wait and get him? He is still in his prime and will be in 2011-2014 or so.
     
  13. Synovia

    Synovia In the Starting Line-Up

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    You should take a look at Halladay's first couple years in the majors. You know, before they sent him back down to the minors.
     
  14. WhiskeyBreath

    WhiskeyBreath 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    I just have a problem using that phrase with a guy like Halladay. He's been good for a long time and will continue to be.

    You give up prospects now because it makes you the World Series favorites for the next 2 seasons. Beckett-Lester-Halladay would be unreal.

    If you look at the rotation right now after the top 2 its pretty scary. Penny is decent for what you expect out of him but Wake is hurt and sucks in the playoffs, Smoltz has been awful and Dice K might not do anything the rest of the season.
     
  15. Synovia

    Synovia In the Starting Line-Up

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    And its still a better rotation than 2007.
     
  16. efin98

    efin98 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    The way I am looking at it is win now...but at the cost of the future. Sure they win two World Series but they may end up causing problems that they will have to trade away prospects at other positions to compensate strapping them for a few years while they restock the shelves. I don't want them going down that road, I have been against that kind of trade for years and I'm willing to wait to win the World Series so long as the team keeps their farm intact and replacing the aging and costly veterans.
     
  17. WhiskeyBreath

    WhiskeyBreath 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    I disagree.

    2007 Playoffs- Beckett-DiceK-Lester-Schilling

    2009 Playoffs? - Beckett-Lester-Wake(if healthy)-Penny

    Dice K had a very good 07 even though he was frustrating as hell to watch. Obviously Lester is a much better pitcher than 07 but it's not enough to call this seasons rotation better.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2009
  18. WhiskeyBreath

    WhiskeyBreath 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    The future isn't being mortgaged if they deal prospects. They are constantly retooling it with great prospects year in and year out.

    Just last year they drafted Kelly and he's already considered one of the best prospects in the entire league. Look at their farm and you will notice it's one of the best in the entire league even after they make a deal like this.
     
  19. efin98

    efin98 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I don't see it as a real gain, the here and now should not set back the team two years from now or more especially when they are thin at the position already.

    If the need for starting pitching is that bad they can find someone out there who has a decent pitcher who won't cost them two of their top pitchers who are ready for the majors. A solid #3 or #4 pitcher in exchange for one of them at most and a player at a well stocked position like outfield would be fine with me- but not the Halladay trade's scenario.
     
  20. Synovia

    Synovia In the Starting Line-Up

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    2007 ERAs

    Beckett: 3.27
    Schilling:3.87
    Dice: 4.40
    Lester: 4.57

    2009 ERAs
    Beckett: 3.44
    Lester: 3.79
    Buckolz: 3.72
    Penny:4.71 /Wake: 4.31/Masterson 4.63

    Our 3rd starter this year, and possible our 4th are better than the 3rd starter in 07.
     

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