Toucher to Brady: 'Screw you'

[BSR]

We'll have to agree to disagree.

The cap is the cap is the cap. Brady just brought down how the league will value QB's against the cap - - but not the cap itself.

The only players this effects are QB's wanting "elite" money.

Too bad.

Are we actually in disagreement? I think Toucher is just taking the perspective of the QBs or others wanting elite money.

In the end, I think if the Brady cut becomes a trend it only makes the league better. I actually hope it doesn't and more teams become less competitive with their "elite" quarterbacks taking up a larger percentage of the salary cap.

 

[BradyManny]

Some may well indeed follow the same thought process you did about it resulting in more money for them, but many won't..

So it's Brady's fault if people are stupid and can't think things through? Come on, you're reaching.

 

[BradyManny]

Are we actually in disagreement? I think Toucher is just taking the perspective of the QBs or others wanting elite money.

Others wanting elite money at non QB positions should be pleased if the price of QBs get driven down.

If Toucher is taking the perspective of QBs, then he's an idiot - again, guys like Brady & Manning have done more for this game than anybody. Besides that, who cares what Joe Flacco makes? And do you honestly believe Joe Flacco's contract will be affected? Because it won't.

Tom Brady made a comparison that took football players' compensation out of the bubble you are viewing it in and brought it into the real world, where people are struggling to make a living. You cannot conveniently put it back in that bubble for the sake of argument.

 

[BSR]

So it's Brady's fault if people are stupid and can't think things through? Come on, you're reaching.

Where does the concept of blame come into play? The reality is people are stupid, especially many players. The reality is that many players will have this type of reaction.

You think it is a reach that there might be players that won't like this deal?

 

[BSR]

Others wanting elite money at non QB positions should be pleased if the price of QBs get driven down.

If Toucher is taking the perspective of QBs, then he's an idiot - again, guys like Brady & Manning have done more for this game than anybody. Besides that, who cares what Joe Flacco makes? And do you honestly believe Joe Flacco's contract will be affected? Because it won't.

Tom Brady made a comparison that took football players' compensation out of the bubble you are viewing it in and brought it into the real world, where people are struggling to make a living. You cannot conveniently put it back in that bubble for the sake of argument.

Joe Flacco cares what Joe Flacco makes and I think that is the point. I think any player that is currently making "elite" money or that takes up a significant portion of the cap may look at this deal and feel that it puts them in a negatively light. Remember these players have agents and others in their ear saying "maximize, maximize, maximize" now suddenly you one player that is taking less and putting salaries into perspective. Why wouldn't Flacco and his ilk feel negatively?

 

[BradyManny]

Where does the concept of blame come into play? The reality is people are stupid, especially many players. The reality is that many players will have this type of reaction.

You think it is a reach that there might be players that won't like this deal?

No, I completely agree with everything you say here, and concur that there are plenty of players and media members stupid enough to get upset about this deal in many different ways. It's already happened.

But if Toucher is going to portray himself as an athlete having a completely irrational reaction to this deal, he has to say that it's irrational. But he didn't realize his reaction was stupid because he isn't exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer. You're making apologies for him if you think otherwise. Toucher doesn't know much about sports, and he damn sure probably doesn't think about the economics of the NFL, so his reaction was as genuinely stupid as Terrell Suggs. Which says something.

And like most people, rampant stupidity bothers me.

 

[BradyManny]

Joe Flacco cares what Joe Flacco makes and I think that is the point. I think any player that is currently making "elite" money or that takes up a significant portion of the cap may look at this deal and feel that it puts them in a negatively light. Remember these players have agents and others in their ear saying "maximize, maximize, maximize" now suddenly you one player that is taking less and putting salaries into perspective. Why wouldn't Flacco and his ilk feel negatively?

It depends on how stupid Joe Flacco is.

If he is stupid enough to think that as a free agent 28 year old QB reaching his first big extension and coming off a Super Bowl MVP that his potential contract is minimized by an under contract veteran QB, who has already been paid hundreds of millions of dollars in his career, signing an extension that has him locked up into the fifth decade of his life, then yes, maybe he can feel negatively.

Otherwise, he can acknowledge that Brady's situation has nothing to do with his (as Flacco's rep already has) and realize that the increase in NFL revenue, and the QB-centric league that gives QBs such a huge chunk of the salary cap pie, is in part thanks due to the play of one Tom Brady. So no, I don't think he would harbor any ill will towards the man and the team-friendly, cap-friendly deal he signed to make him retire as a Patriot.

 

[Off The Grid]

I can't believe people are actually defending that Sewage!! This is hilarious!! :rocker:

 

[BSR]

No, I completely agree with everything you say here, and concur that there are plenty of players and media members stupid enough to get upset about this deal in many different ways. It's already happened.

But if Toucher is going to portray himself as an athlete having a completely irrational reaction to this deal, he has to say that it's irrational. But he didn't realize his reaction was stupid because he isn't exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer. You're making apologies for him if you think otherwise. Toucher doesn't know much about sports, and he damn sure probably doesn't think about the economics of the NFL, so his reaction was as genuinely stupid as Terrell Suggs. Which says something.

And like most people, rampant stupidity bothers me.

Because it isn't stupid or irrational from every players perspective. Joe Flacco, for instance, can be rationally and intelligently pissed off by the deal because it make him look like a money grabbing ahole that will essentially force the Ravens to dismantle a superbowl winning team because of his cap hit.

 

[BSR]

It depends on how stupid Joe Flacco is.

If he is stupid enough to think that as a free agent 28 year old QB reaching his first big extension and coming off a Super Bowl MVP that his potential contract is minimized by an under contract veteran QB, who has already been paid hundreds of millions of dollars in his career, signing an extension that has him locked up into the fifth decade of his life, then yes, maybe he can feel negatively.

Otherwise, he can acknowledge that Brady's situation has nothing to do with his (as Flacco's rep already has) and realize that the increase in NFL revenue, and the QB-centric league that gives QBs such a huge chunk of the salary cap pie, is in part thanks due to the play of one Tom Brady. So no, I don't think he would harbor any ill will towards the man and the team-friendly, cap-friendly deal he signed to make him retire as a Patriot.

That is a very naive, agent like, perspective. You don't think that fans and media members across the league aren't going to take note and put pressure on these high priced elite players?

Drew Brees open to restructuring contract with Saints - NFL.com

"After Tom Brady signed an extension to free up cap space for the New England Patriots, seemingly every big-money quarterback is being asked if he would rework his contract."

You don't think that is going to create some justified resentment?

Of course, I am thrilled that it does and I sincerely hope these other players dig their heals in and refuse to budge.

 

[BradyManny]

Because it isn't stupid or irrational from every players perspective. Joe Flacco, for instance, can be rationally and intelligently pissed off by the deal because it make him look like a money grabbing ahole that will essentially force the Ravens to dismantle a superbowl winning team because of his cap hit.

To who?!

Joe Flacco is 28. Tom Brady is 35. Brady has already signed his big extensions. Joe Flacco hasn't. Everyone gets that these deals have nothing to do with each other. No one will perceive him as a money grabbing ahole just because a millionaire who is currently building his moat-guarded mansion took a discount on the back end of a deal that runs until he's 40. It has NOTHING to do with Joe Flacco.

Might a few stupid people come to that conclusion? I don't know, maybe. But I don't have the time to be preoccupied with people having silly reactions, and neither should you. You're a lot better than that - and you have acknowledged repeatedly in this thread the irrationality of some of the reactions you are worried about. Let it go. People will think what they think. We can only be concerned with what actually makes sense.

 

[BradyManny]

That is a very naive, agent like, perspective. You don't think that fans and media members across the league aren't going to take note and put pressure on these high priced elite players?

Naive & agent-like? What fans and media members across the league believe has zero bearing on what a guy gets paid. What an agent believe does. What a front office believe does.

If Drew Brees wants to restructure to help his team, so be it. He's another guy - like Brady - who has gotten paid and wants to win. If he doesn't want to restructure, what are the Saints going to cut him? No. He has no pressure to do a restructure just because Brady does.

He's jumping on that bandwagon because he's realizing what Brady did made sense for the team and himself - two things that matter more than public perception and worrying about what free agent QBs will make.

 

[Coog548]

In that case you and that mythical foorball player should Google the term "salary cap".

.....and then complain to the NFLPA.

The only people who should be pissed are QB's looking for big paydays. If I were Brady, I would get a restraining order against Joe Flacco immediately.

The issue I brought up never dealt with the salary cap. There are teams out there (bengals/bucs/chiefs) that are not spending towards the top of the salary cap.

Here is the amount of money not spent at the start of last season (9/8/2012).
Eagles: $21.4 million.

Jaguars: $20.7 million.

Chiefs: $14.5 million.

Titans: $14.1 million.

Bills: $13.6 million.

Browns: $13.4 million.

Buccaneers: $13.2 million.

I was attempting to make an argument for a player by player case. Teams work the cap really well that is a given. But for players that are seeing all that cap space they are wondering why they had to take pay cuts or sign smaller deals. From a players point of view if top-tier players are signing for below pay grade, then players in the same position and different talent level will be looking at less money. The NFLPA wants to keep players salary sky high, that's more money in the pockets. Who wouldn't want to make as much money as possible.

An example of that would be Josh Freeman. Now before you jump all over me, I know he is not a top level QB. I would say he is in the third level with Bradford/Palmer. By the way both of those guys need to take a pay cut based on their level of play.
But he will want a decent contract that will pay him good cash($8.00/year?). If Brady and other top level QB start to take lower amounts of $$, his salary will be lowered as well.


As a Patriots fan I love this deal. Helps us out right and hopefully we can spend money on other players.

 

[BradyManny]

An example of that would be Josh Freeman. Now before you jump all over me, I know he is not a top level QB. I would say he is in the third level with Bradford/Palmer. By the way both of those guys need to take a pay cut based on their level of play.

Wow. Now we're really separating the fly crap from the pepper.

Look, we agree and acknowledge that NFL players are going to get compensated a fixed amount due to the salary cap. How that money gets divided up and who gets compensated more, that's out of Tom Brady's control, and it's absurd for him to worry about it. So Josh Freeman gets less (hypothetically, I'm not even sure I'd agree with that). Well, OK, more for Dan Connolly and Devin McCourty. Is that a bad thing? Should Tom Brady be more concerned with Dan Connolly and Devin McCourty when he signs, or Josh Freeman? Should he really be concerned at all?! No! Of course not.

Brady did his part for the NFLPA. His last extension was a rich one, and at the time, he made a point of going out of his way that the players should be well-compensated for their play - in relation to the total pie allotted to them and the onwers, as the CBA issues were on the horizon.

That's come and gone. And the situation has changed. And he's just made a comparison between how NFL players are compensated and how the everyday man is. I'm not sure how we can disagree with the comparison he made.

 

[BSR]

To who?!

Joe Flacco is 28. Tom Brady is 35. Brady has already signed his big extensions. Joe Flacco hasn't. Everyone gets that these deals have nothing to do with each other. No one will perceive him as a money grabbing ahole just because a millionaire who is currently building his moat-guarded mansion took a discount on the back end of a deal that runs until he's 40. It has NOTHING to do with Joe Flacco.

Might a few stupid people come to that conclusion? I don't know, maybe. But I don't have the time to be preoccupied with people having silly reactions, and neither should you. You're a lot better than that - and you have acknowledged repeatedly in this thread the irrationality of some of the reactions you are worried about. Let it go. People will think what they think. We can only be concerned with what actually makes sense.

I'm not worried about it at all. The opposite actually. I am just acknowledging that this situation exists. I am not arguing that your reasoning is wrong, just that fans, media and players don't always follow reason.

With regards to your other post towards me, I think you are underestimating the effect that fans and media can have on most teams. The Patriots are fairly insulated to that effect but other teams and players in other markets aren't. But your right, the front office's take is far more important and my quote shows that front offices are taking notice. They are going to ask for their elite players to possibly take cuts like Brees and Brady and are going to use the Brady contract as an example regardless of a lack of a correlation of circumstances. Thats why some players might be rightfully ticked off by it and again that is not Brady's problem or fault.

 

[BradyManny]

I'm not worried about it at all. The opposite actually. I am just acknowledging that this situation exists. I am not arguing that your reasoning is wrong, just that fans, media and players don't always follow reason.

With regards to your other post towards me, I think you are underestimating the effect that fans and media can have on most teams. The Patriots are fairly insulated to that effect but other teams and players in other markets aren't. But your right, the front office's take is far more important and my quote shows that front offices are taking notice. They are going to ask for their elite players to possibly take cuts like Brees and Brady and are going to use the Brady contract as an example regardless of a lack of a correlation of circumstances. Thats why some players might be rightfully ticked off by it and again that is not Brady's problem or fault.

Fair enough - I don't disagree with most of what you said in this thread, I just come to different conclusions. Ultimately I'm just trying to point out that holding Brady responsible for anything that ensues isn't fair and I think we seem to agree there.

 

[TruthSeeker]

If you did not see the interview the question was " If you were a NFL player what your response be to Brady?"

Toucher was not to far off how I would feel about it. Think about it a person is taken less money which in turn might lower the contract offer you will get. If your in a union that will upset a lot of the members. Everyone is looking to make as much cash as possible and then a member of your union takes a contract below his pay grade. And if I was an NFL player I would say "screw you" as well if my next deal was less money because of what he did.

Comparing apples to oranges since one situation is uncapped and the other is capped.

It appears you totally missed the point.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Where does the concept of blame come into play? The reality is people are stupid, especially many players. The reality is that many players will have this type of reaction.

You think it is a reach that there might be players that won't like this deal?

You've obviously proven that there are people who either won't or can't understand how Tom Brady's below market contract impacts everyone else. Sure, there are plenty of others out there just like you.

But does that mean that people who can figure these things out should settle for the lowest common denominator so that others won't look stupid for their unwarranted criticisms?

 

[shmessy]

That is a very naive, agent like, perspective. You don't think that fans and media members across the league aren't going to take note and put pressure on these high priced elite players?

Drew Brees open to restructuring contract with Saints - NFL.com

"After Tom Brady signed an extension to free up cap space for the New England Patriots, seemingly every big-money quarterback is being asked if he would rework his contract."

You don't think that is going to create some justified resentment?

Of course, I am thrilled that it does and I sincerely hope these other players dig their heals in and refuse to budge.

Like I said earlier, the only ones resenting this are players who punch like Richard Simmons.

Brady couldn't care an amoeba's fart about it.

What YOU don't understand is what Brady did will make a whole lot of DEFENSIVE players richer (bigger PROPORTIONS of the cap will go to them).

The players who can legally hit Brady are right now THANKING him (if they listen to their agents).

You can waste your own time worrying about what the other QB's think.

 

[shmessy]

I was attempting to make an argument for a player by player case. Teams work the cap really well that is a given. But for players that are seeing all that cap space they are wondering why they had to take pay cuts or sign smaller deals. From a players point of view if top-tier players are signing for below pay grade, then players in the same position and different talent level will be looking at less money. The NFLPA wants to keep players salary sky high, that's more money in the pockets. Who wouldn't want to make as much money as possible.

An example of that would be Josh Freeman. Now before you jump all over me, I know he is not a top level QB. I would say he is in the third level with Bradford/Palmer. By the way both of those guys need to take a pay cut based on their level of play.
But he will want a decent contract that will pay him good cash($8.00/year?). If Brady and other top level QB start to take lower amounts of $$, his salary will be lowered as well.


As a Patriots fan I love this deal. Helps us out right and hopefully we can spend money on other players.

Another poster who is using OTHER QB'S as the players who will be pissed at Brady.

To that, I repeat: Do these QB's line up against the Patriots OL and try to harm Brady?

Why should he give a rat's ass about any player that can't touch him on the field of play?