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Torture Report

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by wistahpatsfan, Jun 18, 2008.

  1. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Understood:
    Some on this board differ from others in that some think torture is acceptable and necessary.
    There are others who are opposed to the use of torture under any circumstances (unless their daughter's boyfriend gets her pregnant).
    There is a third group that denies that the Pentagon has employed methods of torture in this so-called "War on Terror". I think their arguement can no longer hold water (pun intended) with this latest report. The Pentagon and the White House can no longer seriously make the claim that no prisoners have been tortured or treated inhumanely.

    For the record, I consider any type of imprisonment inhumane, but know that it is obviously necessary and warranted in cases of crimes. I now consider it a fact that our military government has used torture to the detriment of any cause they claim we are engaged in. It the very least, there has been no benefit gained from it. Real soldiers know that torture is counter-productive at best, and dangerous to our troops at worst. I agree with that position.
  2. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    I'm okay with torture to a certain extent and believe that it can and has resulted in actionable intelligence that has directly saved the lives of Americans.

    That said, there are limits, such as the permanent infliction of disability or a lasting "quality of life" impact is unacceptable. So no, it's not okay to chop off fingers, but its certainly okay in my book to WATERBOARD the sh!t out of KSM so that that little fukcer squeals like a pig. Torture has a broad definition too. Many people think having to stand for hours on end listening to hard rock (a method we use) torture. I personally don't

    So, I'm probably in the first group on your list. Torture in it's mildest forms is fine, but once you get into the infliction of significant pain or causing lasting effects, I'm not for it.
  3. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    That's actually FALSE, there is documented evidence that we received actionable intelligence through the use of waterboarding, which is about the harshest technique we used.

    It worked with Khalid Sheik Mohammed, Abu Zubayda and Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri before the practice was stopped in 2003.
  4. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't think any living creature should be caused pain by any other living creature but sad to say we all know that God, Nature, Devil or whoever or whatever created us doesn't think like I do.

    If putting a wet towel over the face of ONE human being and then pouring water over it will save the lives and suffering of 3000 human beings then I say "DO IT" especially if you know for a fact that after the recipiant of the Waterboarding "Talks" or even after a period of time "Won't Talk" that he will be able to return to his cell and watch TV.

    There are Human Beings in this world that are not Human Beings, we have seen them on TV carving other Human Beings screaming gurgling heads off with their Beloved Daggers.

    Any savage that can pick up a knife then slice open the throat and carve off the head of a terrified sobbing bloody screaming human being should be waterboarded daily for the rest of their lives.

    If 5 minutes of "make believe drowning" administered to a filthy smelly murdering savage will save the lives and suffering of 3000 innocent men women and children what the hell do you Anti American Bush Haters see wrong with that (it might be a different story if your family was involved, right)

    The "Muslim Headhunters" can show the world a thing or two about Torture.

    :bricks:
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2008
  5. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    If we're going to talk about the liklihood of success from torture, I think we know which Presidential candidate can speak to that discussion - and it's not The Prince.
  6. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Interesting...What was the benefit of torture the VC gained from McCain's capitulation?...please elaborate on your point.
  7. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I don't know the value of torture - I have always said I'm in favor of it IF we get useful information out of it.

    I was simply responding to your comment :

    If we want a President who "knows" - you know, a "real soldier" - about torture then it's surely not The Prince.
  8. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Again...What was the benefit of torture the VC gained from McCain's capitulation?...What do you think McCain's position on torture is?
  9. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Torture doesn't always work (but sometimes it does) it is a wonderful thing this "stop the torture" stuff, BUT, will people like the Viet Cong, Taliban, Al Queda, Castro, Chavez and the rest of the Hate America Smelly Savages around the world go along with it.

    All we hear about is Bad Bad America and their "waterboarding" why don't we see the photo's of the People floating down from above on 9/11 flapping their arms trying to fly, thats what I call "Real Torture" maybe some little ten year old girl was watching TV that morning whose father worked in one of the Towers and maybe she watched this body floating to the ground below and maybe she said to her mother "mommy, I wonder if thats daddy flapping his arms" thats what I call torture, if Torturing one savage would prevent that from happening again in this country I'd dig their f-cking eyeballs out with a popsicle stick.

    :bricks:
  10. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I don't know the answer to the first question but it's not particularly relevant to me (one instance of of torture helping or not doesn't prove the general case).

    McCain's position, though, seems - in between - :

    "He added that the CIA should be allowed to use "alternative interrogation techniques," that are not otherwise outlawed as unduly coercive, cruel, inhumane or degrading. McCain has not publicly described the techniques that he believes fall into that category".

    http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1729891,00.html
  11. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    McCain is not a fan of torture of course. As for the answer to what the VC gained, the answer is clearly NOTHING, since McCain was never imprisoned by the VC. It was the NVA. I know, symantics, right.... :rolleyes:

    Again wista, I think you are oversimplifying the discussion. Any discussion of torture has to discuss specific tactics and levels. Any reasonable American would conclude that the prolonged significant infliction of pain inflicted on McCain is NOT an acceptable level of torture we'd be comfortable with. Of course there is no evidence to suggest we've ever participated in it either, so its a mute point.

    Is making someone stand for 30-40 hours, listening to Abba in the same leaque of torture? Most would say no. About the worst we've done, that has come out publicly, was waterboarding, which we used 3 times and stopped the practice in 2003. Personally, I think that's right at the level I'm comfortable with and there are no lasting effects from the practice.

    You can try to simplify the argument and make it a "torture/no torture", but that's really not realistic to the conversation. It's too subjective. I'd consider making me watch the SB highlights over and over to be a form of torture, but I'm sure a Giants fan would consider it pornography. :D
  12. otis p. driftwood

    otis p. driftwood Rookie

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    They got propaganda films they were able to show to other prisoners and others saying whatever it was he said on the films.

    You know "I'm being treated well" and "the war on the poor sweet innocent people of North Vietnam is a criminal enterprise".

    Now--if people are "tortured" by the US for legitimate reasons and the torture isn't extreme--there's a huge difference between McCain's shoulder being broken repeatedly and a female interrogator spilling red ink on an Islamic person and telling him it's her menstrual blood--what's the problem?

    I don't see how this "safety of OUR soldiers on the battlefield" holds any water at all, when we've seen the pictures of what they've done to captured soldiers and civilian contractors (and I don't mean Jessica Lynch).

    I'd rather have red ink spilled on me than have my penis cut off and shoved in my mouth moments before my head was cut off. Wouldn't you?
  13. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Watching Pant Suit Hillary Waddle Across My Plasma TV Grinning, Bobbing Her Head And Clapping her Hands Is Unbearable Torture To Me

    I Know She Will Be Back, The Clintons Will Never "Go Away"
  14. otis p. driftwood

    otis p. driftwood Rookie

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    Barry Manilow 24/7, while the screen replays highlights from Buckner's play, the end of the Pats/Colts AFCCG, Payton holding the SB trophy, and the last 5 minutes of the last SB over and over.

    I'd kill myself in about 24 hours, if I couldn't find someone else to kill.
  15. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Watch it there, buddy, I'm an Out of the Closet Barry Manilow fan. As you can see from the Pub's music thread it's not my standard fare - but I love Barry. Seen him live about 6 times.

    Weekend in New England, baby :)
  16. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    You're asking the wrong guy...I'm married so I've already been through that....

    JUST KIDDING, HONEY!
  17. otis p. driftwood

    otis p. driftwood Rookie

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    You watch Family Guy?
  18. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Nah, I don't watch any sitcoms except The Office.
  19. STFarmy

    STFarmy Rookie

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    Off topic, but do yourself a favor and rent/buy the three seasons of Arrested Development. It's the greatest modern comedy on TV.
  20. otis p. driftwood

    otis p. driftwood Rookie

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    If you're familiar with it at all--it's animated comedy...well, your manilow comment made me think...so here, watch this.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ursTBD0sZ0

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