Welcome to PatsFans.com

Torture kept us safe

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Holy Diver, Jun 1, 2009.

  1. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    10,800
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    The narrative put forth by the Bush administration, mostly by Dick Cheney as of late, was that EITs were necessary to withdraw information from those with suspected close ties to Bin Laden and those who wished to cause us harm. Even going to the lenths as to cite CIA documents that would prove the thwarting of said threats.

    Okay.

    Something dawned on me last night, and I'm kinda kicking myslef today for not thinking of this.

    If any and all information was crucial to saving american lives in a post 9-11 era....

    why did our administration allow this to happen?

    Bin Ladens allowed out of U.S. after 9-11

    seems they might have SOME info that we could use, right?

    seems like we would do anything in our power to get that info, to save american lives....right?

    The simple fact that while every amercan was grounded for days....the family of OBL was allowed to leave our country, after the horrors of that day. The juststification of EIDs by the Bush administration is a LIE.

    They let the Bin Laden's leave.....




    as the sex pistols said "Its a swindle!"
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2009
  2. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    4,981
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    not as bad as clinton having OBL served up on a platter and declining.......

    OBL had been ostracized from his family...........there would be just as much value in torturing you.......which is zero
  3. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2007
    Messages:
    8,525
    Likes Received:
    12
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    Yeah, but it might be fun just the same. ;)
  4. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    10,800
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    first of all, there is no value in torture.

    secondly.....these people who stooped to the tactic to "keep you safe" let the closest link to bin laden leave the country, when all other citizens were grounded. They just zoomed out of here on 9-12....without a single question asked.

    It proves their arguement about keeping us safe is BS, and you apparently love the taste.
  5. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    4,981
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    care to offer up any other opinions?

    the government was convinced they had nothing to offer..........other than genetic similarity

    naaahhhh.........you're just obsessed with the notion
  6. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    10,800
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0



    well according to all interrogators...

    here is what General Ricardo Sanchez says about it:

    “during my time in Iraq there was not one instance of actionable intelligence that came out of these interrogation techniques.”

    a tortured confession can't be used in a court because it ilicits false confessions. So...our legals system says it doesn't work.

    The Army Field manual



    seems to me the only people who claim it 'works' are Dick Cheney and the remaining neocons.


    and....


    REALLY! they decided that no Bin Laden =had any useful info in a matter of HOURS after 9-11?



    REALLY!!!!!???????




    so they just let them go.......



    and tortured other future detainees?






    what color is the sky in your world, Tanked?
  7. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    39,085
    Likes Received:
    124
    Ratings:
    +333 / 1 / -9

    Bush did what a good liberal would , he did the "humane thing" can you imagine what the American people would have done if they knew Bin Ladens family was in the USA when 9/11 happened, they would have been found and killed.

    Bush acted like Jimmy Carter on that one.
  8. stevedogc

    stevedogc Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2005
    Messages:
    819
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Well here is a link to a story that has a quote from an ex CIA agent that said waterboarding does in fact work and saved lives.

    Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives' - CNN.com



    You do realize that you are comparing waterboarding 3 high memebers of Al Qaeda, you call them "future detainees" to members of Bin Ladens family who had absolutely no knowldge of his location and have had no contact with OBL for many, many years if at all. If you cant see the differences in those then you are hopeless.
  9. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Messages:
    7,669
    Likes Received:
    17
    Ratings:
    +17 / 0 / -0

    Cheney's version of torture "working" was that under torture he got a few tortured people to admit there was a link between 9-11 and Iraq (which is bogus).
  10. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    10,800
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    I think that we (sane) people understand the torture timeline, and what 'confessions' they were looking to get ( liks between Iraq, and Bin Laden )

    you can tell the difference between the confused, and the lucid by how often the confused envoke 9-11 in the torturing excuses.

    the entire argument is BROKEN by the fact that we let these family members simply fly away. The fact that at each turn the White House attempted to block an investigation inot 9-11, the fact that Bush and Cheney wouldn't discuss the greatest crime in our nation's history under oath in an open session.

    Those on this board who STILL defend the release of 4 flights with well over 140 people after 9-11. Then turn around and say that we needed to torture (waterboard etc) detainees to find ourt about future attacks are dillusional at best.

    Those on this board with clarity understand that torture has NOTHING TO DO WITH 9-11, and has everything to do with justification of the Iraqi invasion.
  11. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    10,800
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    Coming in From the Cold: CIA Spy Calls Waterboarding Necessary But Torture - ABC News

    he also calls the technique "Torture"

    and you might wanny stop with the cherry picking....the story has been updated:

    UPDATE: U.S. Government documents released in April 2009 indicate that Kiriakou's account that Abu Zubaydah broke after only one water boarding session was incorrect. According to a footnote in newly released, previously classified "Top Secret" memos, the CIA used the water board "at least 83 times during August 2002 in the interrogation of Zubaydah."

    Following the release of the documents, Kiriakou said: "When I spoke to ABC News in December 2007 I was aware of Abu Zubaydah being water boarded on one occasion. It was after this one occasion that he revealed information related to a planned terrorist attack. As I said in the original interview, my information was second-hand. I never participated in the use of enhanced techniques on Abu Zubaydah or on any other prisoner, nor did I witness the use of such techniques."





    are we clear?

    can you see yet?
  12. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    4,981
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0




    perfectly...........it is torture.........so what?

    Poll: US divided over torture, closing Guantanamo - Yahoo! News

    more are in favor of it anyway...........
  13. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Messages:
    5,742
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    It is creepy how the Bush administration made such heavy and controversial use of the material witness provisions in our laws yet chose to let these potential material witnesses leave while the rest of us were grounded.
  14. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    4,981
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    The Bin Laden flights

    At least 13 relatives of Osama bin Laden, accompanied by bodyguards and associates, left the United States on a chartered flight eight days after the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, according to a passenger manifest released on July 21, 2004.[17] The passenger list was made public by Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ), who obtained the manifest from officials at Boston's Logan International Airport. None of the flights, domestic or international, took place before the reopening of national airspace on the morning of Sept. 13 and the 9/11 Commission found ""no evidence of a political intervention". [18]

    bin Laden family - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2009

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>