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Top Pass rusher not who you think

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by mcsully, Feb 12, 2009.

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  1. mcsully

    mcsully Rookie

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    Kiper sides with fans - The News-Herald Sports : Breaking news coverage for Northern Ohio

    No one is 100% right with their projections on players but in this article, the written mentions a couple of interesting notes Kiper makes

    "Reminds me a great deal of the Patriots' Mike Vrabel (matthews)"


    "but when he was asked to name the top pass-rushing linebacker in the draft, he did not name Curry.

    The best pass rushers are Larry English from Northern Illinois and Clay Matthews from USC,"



    Very interesting.. My thought process is if the Pats draft a OLB (we can debate what player in another thread) they can move AD Thomas inside with Mayo.. This would allow Vrabel and Crable (or Redd or who ever) to rotate.. It would seem to me you would strengthen the middle and build talented youth at the OLB position..
  2. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    Both are risky if the presumption is that they are taken in the 1st round. English has questions about quality of competition. Matthews only has one season of meaningful snaps. That defense was LOADED and so Matthews got very little focus (meaning double-teams, chipping, etc).

    In the games I saw, he pretty much played with his hair on fire to get into the backfield. While that isn't a bad thing, he also didn't have to play with much discipline because the players behind him could cover up when he lost containment. I also recall seeing him play exclusively on the LOS.

    Both of them could turn out to be solid NFL players, but I think they are significant risks as 1st round selections.
  3. Richter

    Richter Rookie

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    I don't think anyone had Curry as the best pass rusher in the draft anyway. Great all around type guy, but he's not an edge rusher by any stretch of the imagination. The best guy in my mind for just pure pass rushing will be Everette Brown, but whether or not he can play standing up is a matter of debate.
  4. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Are we really attaching value to Kiper's evaluation skills?

    Hairdo has his uses. He seems to have sources on NFL clubs who feed him information about who their considering....and some even tell him the truth.

    Fact it, he's a worse talent evaluator than most of this forum.
  5. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    Agreed - I wait for Mayock's take on things. He gave Reiss a few tidbits yesterday:

    Mayock, the Patriots, & outside linebackers - Reiss' Pieces - Boston.com
  6. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    ...and even so, Matthews finished the season with a whopping 4.5 sacks.

    Good player, great guy, but it's flat-out bizarre that Kiper would call him the country's #1 pass rusher. Matthews may be setting a record for the fastest turnaround from shift to overrated.
  7. aaron spacemuseum

    aaron spacemuseum Rookie

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    I really think our best option to bite the bullet and take Sintim with #23. He's the only one that can challenge for a starting spot based on his experience in the system. We'll get chided by every prognosticator for "reaching" when we MAYBE could have gotten him with the SD pick, but it's too risky to let every 3-4 team get a crack before we pick second. I could EASILY see Mangina going after Sintim in the second round or GB or DEN using their two on him.

    I think English is another good option who maybe has a higher ceiling, but I don't think he could have the same type of immediate impact. Maybin scares the hell out of me. Immature players do not mix with BB and that's the vibe I get from him.
  8. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    :rofl: Kiper has Matthews as his #1 pass rushing OLB! :rofl:
  9. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #11 Jersey

    It's beyond wrong to just plain weird.
  10. Richter

    Richter Rookie

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    Especially given not only his lack of production in that department, but all the talent he had around him that covered up his weaknesses and allowed him to just attack the line like a screaming banshee. I'm not a Matthews guy, as in I don't think he's a first round pick. He's more like a third rounder, he looks somewhat limited athletically, great motor and terrific bloodlines, but he doesn't have the skills or track record to make you think he's a better pass rusher than a whole host of guys that are ahead of him.
  11. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I kind of like Matthews more as a possible SILB conversion than as a pass rushing OLB. He has a great motor and seems pretty good at taking on blockers. While he played the elephant some for USC, I just don't see him as a premier pass rushing OLB.
  12. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    One of the knocks on him is he tries to run around blockers, this may be correctable behavior/decision making, but I consider that a more significant negative for a SILB than an OLB.
  13. jays52

    jays52 Rookie

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    I haven't seen much of him play, but that right there is all I need to know about his conversion to Sam. Running around blocks against the run isn't a decision making thing, it's a mentality thing. Unless you have one hell of a shed repetoire, you need to be scraping and filling through anything.

    English for president.
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2009
  14. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

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    I liked Matthews and could see him in the 2nd/3rd round area. But I wouldn't spend a 1st rounder on him because I don't think he is athletic enough to merit that. Perhaps he'll prove us all wrong at the combine. who knows.
  15. stinkypete

    stinkypete Rookie

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    For all the talk about the need for big time pass rusher, who was the big pass rusher during the '03-'04 run? There were plenty of sacks to go around, but never a single standout player. I would rather have a smart, all around solid OLB to build around than a risky pass rush specialist. If this whole defense is built around solid young defensive prospects, not one sided athletic wonders, then it will produce.
  16. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

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    Having the ability to rush the passer doesn't exclude being able to execute other phases of the game. See Demarcus Ware and Willie McGinest who was a part of all 3 Superbowl teams btw.
  17. BionicPatriot

    BionicPatriot Rookie

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    If you add a guy who can get to the QB, it'll make everyone's job easier. We need a consistant pass rusher, that alone makes this defense better. McGinest and Vrabel were quite the pass rushers those 2 years.
  18. BPF

    BPF Rookie

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    That's the knock on Sintim and why he's "sliding" in some people's eyes is that he is stiff in space and struggles moving laterally. This obviously shows up big in coverage. Maybe he struggled to adjust to the 4-3 the Bengals coaching staff employed in the Senior Bowl. You can't argue with his speed upfield and his results as a pass-rusher. He does seem like he's strictly a 3-4 OLB but that works for the Pats. It could be that we get a steal picking him in the 2nd Rd, who knows.
  19. p8ryts

    p8ryts Rookie

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    Good plan, but I think I might prefer to move Vrabel back inside
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