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Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by BRiZ, Mar 14, 2008.

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  1. BRiZ

    BRiZ Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    who do you think will be the top 20 players on the Pats draft board? Heres mine based on a blend of need and BPA.

    1. Chris Long OLB Virginia
    2. Jake Long OT Michigan
    3. Darren McFadden RB Arkansas
    4. Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie CB Tennessee St.
    5. Vernon Gholston OLB Ohio St.
    6. Ryan Clady OT Boise State
    7. Mike Jenkins CB South Florida
    8. Leodis McKelvin CB Troy
    9. Keith Rivers OLB USC
    10. Glenn Dorsey DT LSU
    11. Quentin Groves OLB Auburn
    12. Kenny Philips S Miami
    13. Sedrick Ellis DT USC
    14. Derrick Harvey OLB Florida
    15. Antoine Cason CB Arizona
    16. Jerod Mayo ILB Tennessee
    17. Aqib Talib CB Kansas
    18. Rashard Mendenhall RB Illinois
    19. Brandon Albert OG Virginia
    20. Chris Johnson RB East Carolina
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2008
  2. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    This is an interesting exercise. I would move Jake Long to #1, move McFadden way down...near the bottom if not completely off. I'd move DRC and Phillips off the list. I guess those are the major issues I have. I would replace the two RBs, Phillips, and DRC with Cliff Avril, Erin Henderson, Devin Thomas, and Anthony Collins.

    How much would you pay to see the Pats draft board?
     
  3. BRiZ

    BRiZ Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    yea Jake Long and Chris Long is very close. Jake is probably slightly better player and would be rediculous on our Oline but Chris Long would be just to hard to pass up for his impact on our 3-4 D and his character and blood lines, imo BB probably would want him over anyone in this draft thats why i got him at #1.

    Drop McFadden down/off why? DRC off the list are you nuts? Hes the best CB in the draft and probably our #1 need right now. Philips could probably be a little lower i agree. Avril could probably replace Johnson, i dunno if i would take Mendenhall off though and take Henderson, Mendenhall is a beast.

    Since im broke right now not much but if i had alot of money i would pay whatever it took! Be cool to see how BB and Pioli ranks the players.
     
  4. BRiZ

    BRiZ Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    also i have to say i probably think BB and Pioli consider alot of prospects alot of us dont see going 1st round or at a certain pick. Ben Watson, Logan Mankins ect come to mind. I wouldnt be surprised to see some names on their board nobody would expect.
     
  5. Stanley

    Stanley Rookie

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    Chris Johnson shouldn't be on this list. I watched ECU vs. VT last year and I don't even remember him at all. How is Fabian Washington doing?
     
  6. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Well, coming from a standpoint of need, McFadden wouldn't make a top 50 list. We just don't need him, unless you think he's an enormous upgrade over Maroney, or that it's a wise distribution of resources to spend a #1 pick on a backup RB. Plus I'm not convinced that McFadden's going to be an every-down back, like Mendenhall or Stewart. I wonder about his effectiveness hitting it up between the tackles. I like him better than Reggie Bush, but I thought Reggie Bush (at the time) was the most overrated player in the history of the NFL draft, and had him as a mid-to-late first rounder myself.

    So we don't need McFadden. Is his value to us enough that he'd be in our Top 20 regardless of need? I'd guess no.

    I have absolutely zero evidence that DRC is the best CB in the draft. I would not rank him above Flowers, Cason, or Talib...three guys who have excelled on the field against very good competition the last two years, or McKelvin, who played at a smaller school also, but was at least regarded as a top prospect last year.

    I've said it countless times, but once more won't hurt: DRC might prove out to be the best CB in the draft, but there's absolutely no proof right now that he will be, despite his world-class athleticism.
     
  7. BRiZ

    BRiZ Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Johnson would be a nice replacement for Faulk who dont got much time left and Johnson could be used in the return game, he would be a nice pickup imo.
     
  8. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Agreed. But I can't imagine he'd be in BBs top 20. Of course, one poster who seems to have a pretty good handle claims BB loves all 165 lbs of DeSean Jackson...which if true seems to open the door for Johnson.
     
  9. BRiZ

    BRiZ Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    McFadden is up there morely on best player availible not on need. We dont need an RB but we could upgrade the position imo. Morris and Faulk are old and LMoney hasnt exactly taken off yet. If you got the chance to draft the best player in the draft at the #7 pick thats an opportunity you dont pass up. I understand alot of people dont like McFadden, personally hes the real deal imo, it would be like drafting Adrian Peterson, LaDanian Tomlinson, Steven Jackson ect, i love Maroney but hes just not on that level, yet...

    DRC is deffinitly the best CB in the draft, hes faster, taller, more athletic, has better ball skills than any CB in the draft. Have you watched the kid? Compared to the other CBs in they draft he makes them look like a joke. Not to mention hes got the Antonio Cromartie gene in his blood, that sh*t is no joke. If he had a Michigan helmet on his head he would probably be a top 5 pick.
     
  10. BRiZ

    BRiZ Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    DeSean Jackson or Dexter Jackson? I heard the pats were interested in Dexter Jackson but i could see DeSean as well interesting BB. They both are quick slot-type WRs like Welky.
     
  11. Stanley

    Stanley Rookie

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    Sorry, I can't see how Johnson could replace Faulk. They are 2 different types of players. Johnson is a combine athlete. How could he not have stood out on the field at ECU? I think he only started one year and wasn't even featured that much. Faulk is a playmaker who would have been middle of the pack at the combine. He is an effective blocker, knows how to find open spots, breaks tackles, time screen plays, and catches very well. Just my opinion. He could be the next Willie Parker who was buried at a bad UNC program.
     
  12. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I've watched him exactly the same as everybody else...the Senior Bowl. That's not the same as watching a guy like Talib play against Texas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, or Cason play against USC, Cal, Oregon, or Flowers play against Georgia Tech, Miami, Boston College. I'll give you that he's faster, taller, and more athletic. He's a sprint and high jump champion. We all know that doesn't qualify him as being the best CB in the draft. Ball skills? Unless you've watched some tape, I'm willing to bet that's a guess. As far as blood goes, we'll see how much that helps Simeon Castille, Bo Ruud, or Sam Kellar. Maybe the same as it helped Bernard Carter, Markus Vick, or Qadry Ismail.

    There's a reason he didn't have a Michigan helmet on his head....they didn't recruit him. Maybe if he had an LSU helmet on his head, we wouldn't even be discussing him, because maybe he rides the bench behind Zenon and Jackson.

    Honestly, there's absolutely no way you or anyone else can say that DRC is "definitely the best CB in the draft.
     
  13. BRiZ

    BRiZ Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Antonio Cromartie played maybe 5 plays at Florida State and tore his ACL and everybody was saying the same things as you. He doesnt have any experience. Yet he was drafted and is probably the best CB in the league. I know you would like to see him in action against top competition but its just not availible you have to go on your instinct. DRC skills are elite compared to any CB in the draft, he proved it at the Senior Bowl and combine and he will prove it in the NFL too.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2008
  14. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Have you heard of the term "limited sample size"? I'm not saying you're wrong, merely that--FWIW--Rodgers-Cromartie doesn't have a track record of proven performance. That doesn't mean he won't get drafted early, but it does mean that whoever does draft him will have to take something of a leap of faith, in much the way that the Pats did with Matt Cassel, although they only ponied up a seventh-rounder, not the #7 pick, in that case. . . .
     
  15. BRiZ

    BRiZ Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Heres a comparison between Antonio Cromartie and DRC's combines, DRC's numbers in parentheses.

    Antoinio Cromartie

    225 Lb Bench Reps: 18 (17)
    Vertical Jump: 38 (38 1/2)
    Broad Jump: 11'00" (10'11")
    40 Yard Dash: 4.47 (4.29)
    20 Yard Dash: 2.70 (2.51)
    10 Yard Dash: 1.58 (1.41)
    20 Yard Shuttle: 3.89 (4.17)
    3-Cone Drill: 7.02 (6.74)

    to be fair Antonio was still coming off lingering effects of his ACL injury, so he probably would do much better now than he did during the combine. His proday he improved his Vert to 42 and 40 yard dash to 4.38.

    Regardless DRC is almost identical to his cousin Antonio, and hes got quick feet, fluid hips, and good hands with great ball skills. I dont think it will matter what competition he goes up against he can hold his own.
     
  16. PatsandTrojans55

    PatsandTrojans55 Practice Squad Player

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    1. Chris Long is not their favorite player, in fact, he's not in the Top-7 at this time. They like him but they like others as well. I don't just mean 7 players but they also look at other options such as: Do we like Chris at #7 over say player "X" at 16 and an extra pick. To say he's their Top pick at #1 is to say they will trade up for him and their is at this time only 1 player they would trade up for and it's not C. Long.

    2. DRC- Has great measurables but he's not the Pats Top Corner in fact there are at least 3-4 others above him and the list is growing. It's not just about measurables with them but Ball Skills(savyness) and intelligence.

    3. McFadden- is too high. They like the kid but not enough to over compensate what they deem as value for dollar.

    4. Ellis is higher as well.

    5. Gholston is a very good prospect but ask yourself these questions?
    A) Do they value him at #7 for the money in that slot he will command?
    B) Do they value him enough to believe his transition will be so smooth that they could move AD from his better and more explosive position at OLB to ILB for the sake of this rookie starting right away?
    C) Do they feel for the money they will pay him at #7 is justified for a rookie who may his first season be strictly a 3rd down pass specialists (or) do they think there is another very solid player in this draft that could be a very effective pass rush specialists and wont cost them as much for the learning curve?

    In other words, Gholston has to be special enough at #7 money to them to make them take a Pro Bowler OLB in AD and move him to ILB on 1st and 2nd down and not just be a 3rd down pass rush specialists. There are 4 guys who could be a simple 3rd down pass rush specialists while learning OLB in this draft and they wont cost as much as a #7 pick.

    At this point, neither Gholston or Chris Long have convinced them the other options they have/will have are not better for the future of this team. At this point.

    Add 5 slots and add 2 wr's to this list.

    Good Job on your list Briz. I'm not knocking it just giving some insight.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2008
  17. BRiZ

    BRiZ Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2008
  18. ayjackson

    ayjackson Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    1. Chris Long, OLB
    2. Jake Long, OT
    3. Ryan Clady, OT
    4. Vernon Gholston, OLB
    5. Leodis McKelvin, CB
    6. Quentin Groves, OLB
    7. Derrick Harvey, OLB
    8. Glen Dorsey, DE
    9. Jeff Otah, OT
    10. Kentwan Balmer, DE
    11. Dominque Rodgers-Crowmartie, CB
    12. Limas Sweed, WR
    13. Antoine Cason, CB
    14. Mike Jenkins, CB
    15. Devin Thomas, WR
    16. James Hardy, WR
    17. Brandon Flowers, CB
    18. Phillip Rivers, ILB
    19. Aqib Talib, CB
    20. Branden Albert, OL
     
  19. drew4008

    drew4008 In the Starting Line-Up

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    McFadden and Rodgers-Cromartie OFF the list.
     
  20. PatsandTrojans55

    PatsandTrojans55 Practice Squad Player

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    BRIZ,


    Originally Posted by PatsandTrojans55
    1. Chris Long is not their favorite player, in fact, he's not in the Top-7 at this time. They like him but they like others as well. I don't just mean 7 players but they also look at other options such as: Do we like Chris at #7 over say player "X" at 16 and an extra pick. To say he's their Top pick at #1 is to say they will trade up for him and their is at this time only 1 player they would trade up for and it's not C. Long.

    This isnt taking into account trading down, its their draft board and assuming they will draft at the #7 pick, no trading up either. They are picking at #7 and if all the players were availible on the list and havent been drafted yet, Chris Long would be their top choice etc..

    Okay let's take that out of the equation, If they could have anybody, Chris Long is still not their Top choice in this draft. I know this for a fact. Will they draft him at #7 maybe but he's not their Top Prospect.

    2. DRC- Has great measurables but he's not the Pats Top Corner in fact there are at least 3-4 others above him and the list is growing. It's not just about measurables with them but Ball Skills(savyness) and intelligence.

    3-4 other CBs ahead of DRC on the pats draft board? No way. DRC has the best ball skills out of any CB in the draft. You right they look for other things in their corners like intelligence and confidence, but that isnt going to trump a player with maybe decent intelligence and confidence and superior skills and character. The pats will draft the best football player and right now that is DRC.

    [I]To the Patriots if were talking about them. With all due respect for your adoration of DRC. The fact is the Patriots are not in love with this kid and he is currently not in thier Top 4-5 of corners in this draft. I know this to be true as of now. What you want to watch for in regards to DRC is if they bring him to foxboro before the draft to follow up on what they told him to improve on. If they call him up it might be a possible pick but right now they like some others and absolutely LOVE at least 3 guys right now that are coming to visit foxboro ahead of DRC. There is hope if your a DRC fan but they weren't that excited about Antonio and they're not enamored with DRC at this time.[/I]

    3. McFadden- is too high. They like the kid but not enough to over compensate what they deem as value for dollar.

    McFadden is the best player in the draft, if he falls to #7 there will be very few players the Pats would take over him, we arent exactly loaded at RB and we dont have too much money tied up in the position either.

    To the Pats he's not the best player by far to them and he's not the Top RB to them either. They like him though but not that much.

    4. Ellis is higher as well.

    Could be but i see him thriving in a 4-3 defense since he likes to attack the QB, hes a Warren Sapp clone. Dorsey even though he is more suited to the 4-3 right now would make a better transition to the 3-4 if we were forced to take a dlineman.

    It's actually the opposite in their minds and they think Trevor Laws and Ellis are similar in there stature and both would be very capable 3-4 NT's.

    Again Good job.
    Iknow alot of fans have their heart set on certain players but the Pats don't think that way most of the time.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2008
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