Top 10 QBs of all time

[Canuck]

Just for fun I took the names listed and sorted them by career QB Rating:

2005 - Present Rodgers 106.0
1998 - Present Manning 97.5
1985 - 1999 Young 96.8
2000 - Present Brady 95.9
2001 - Present Brees 95.4
1998 - 2009 Warner 93.7
1979 - 1994 Montana 92.3
1946 - 1955 Graham 86.6
1983 - 1999 Marino 86.4
1991 - 2010 Favre 86.0
1969 - 1979 Staubach 83.4
1989 - 2000 Aikman 81.6
1984 - 2000 Moon 80.9
1956 - 1971 Starr 80.5
1983 - 1998 Elway 79.9
1956 - 1973 Unitas 78.2

A few things stood out, present day QB's benefit from a more passer friendly league. Qb's with a passer rating of 90 and above also have completion percentages in the 60+ range. Those in the 80's have completion percentage in the 50's range.

Random Thoughts:

Rodgers is probably the best pure passer we have. Young may be a better passer then Montana. Graham was probably the best of the old timers. Favre and Marino gunslingers to the core. Elways stats kind of shocked me, I guess the running game really helped him out. Warner really was a good QB. Aikman probably owes his success to Emmitt Smith.

This is just the regular season. Playoffs are a whole different story.

 

[Tony2046]

1) Brady
2) Montana
3) Unitas
4) Marino
5) Young
6) Favre
7) Manning
8) Staubach
9) Elway
10) Bradshaw

The only changes I would make to this list is switching Manning out for Rogers and putting Staubach at 5 above young and Favre. Manning has choked too many times in big games to be in the top ten IMO. I sometimes wonder how many rings Marino would have if he had been in Aikman's shoes.

Good list.

 

[p8ryts]

Notable snubs.

Peyton Manning - I felt leaving him off was the right choice. It is not just last year but his entire career even his best years he has just not produced even against lesser competition when it mattered most. The only time he won a SB was against perhaps the worst team to ever make it to that game in its history (the D was hurt and the QB sucked) when he had a team loaded on O and D. I just don't see it. He is one of the best when everything goes perfectly but that means nothing. Greatest is to me how you do when things around you don't go well and your team needs you.

Brett Favre - He won with the #1 O and #1 D against a Pats team where Bledsoe threw 4 Ints and his kick returner made points and huge plays. Bravo. Why is it he could never do more? Cause he never learned how to manage a game. Too many unforced errors and unwillingness to change his game when needed hurts him.

Troy Aikman - Sorry. He would be #11... Got carried a bit too much for my taste. He was kind of in the situation Bart Starr was but when asked to carry he could not as much. 11-5 record is great. 23 TDs and 17 Ints is not so good.

Bradshaw - Post season carry ability was good but just too many holes in his game for him to make it.

Anyone of these guys before Kurt Warner

 

[everlong]

The problem I have with Brees is that his outdoor splits suck and he's never even really played in more than a couple freezing and windy games.

The problem I have with Warner is he was off the charts in domes with amazing talent in STL and AZ but sucked outside in NY with just average talent. The greatest show on turf is well documented but Fitzgerald, Bolden and Breaston was pretty good and Hightower was a really good receiving back.

They're top 20 but I can't put them in any top ten list.

 

[Tony2046]

Wrong. And I will painfully say why.
#1 Slingin' Sammy Baugh. Before him the QB was one of four possible RBs who might throw two or three times a game. He made the QB the passer. And, no it was not the coach - he had three. Until Brady finds a new way to get the ball downfield (telekinesis ), he can't top that.

Then 2-5 Brady, Starr, Montana, and Graham. (Different eras and such, although Brady can easily be a clear #2

The rest are OK. Well, OK-ish. I'd drop the guys with obvious holes in their resume like Marino and, it pains me to say it, Tarkenton. The first "no championship" QB is Y.A. Tittle. 36 TDs in 14 games when no defensive holding - PI only if ball was in the air, no timing routes, and no rules about roughing the passer* was a bigger achievement than Marino's 48. (*Google image search and see a picture of him BLEEDING FROM THE HEAD.)

The OP asked for a top ten for super bowl era QB's. Outside of that, the only thing I can go on when comparing a QB from the 40's to one in the 2000's is stats or at least look at the stats and try to put them into a context that I would be able to equally compare each QB's value "per era" and try to translate that into an "all time" value which would probably take me the rest of my life to do so I will have to go with my gut instinct for now. So for me it's Tom Brady but I understand that's up for debate when talking about All Time.

Things that come into factor when discussing all time is just impossible to figure out such as:

1. The effects of WWII
2. Footballs shape and quality.
3. Salaries - Did possibly great talented people not play because had better financial opportunities elsewhere? Today people spend their whole life trying to get to the NFL and they are elite athletes.
4. The effects of fewer teams and less competition. (This might also mean teams were less diluted)

So if I were to make an All Time list it would not have numbers 1-10 in it, instead it would have the category of "Best of an Era" with a list of names in it.

 

[lurker1965]

The OP asked for a top ten for super bowl era QB's. Outside of that, the only thing I can go on when comparing a QB from the 40's to one in the 2000's is stats or at least look at the stats and try to put them into a context that I would be able to equally compare each QB's value "per era" and try to translate that into an "all time" value which would probably take me the rest of my life to do so I will have to go with my gut instinct for now. So for me it's Tom Brady but I understand that's up for debate when talking about All Time.

Things that come into factor when discussing all time is just impossible to figure out such as:

1. The effects of WWII
2. Footballs shape and quality.
3. Salaries - Did possibly great talented people not play because had better financial opportunities elsewhere? Today people spend their whole life trying to get to the NFL and they are elite athletes.
4. The effects of fewer teams and less competition. (This might also mean teams were less diluted)

So if I were to make an All Time list it would not have numbers 1-10 in it, instead it would have the category of "Best of an Era" with a list of names in it.

Fourier series, whom I quoted, was all time. You can tell because he used Otto Graham.

Stats across eras are stupid. Compare him to people in his era. Baugh is head and shoulders over most because the QB as one of the RBs (along with full back, half back, and tail back)

He was throwing a "modern" football after it changed shape in 1940. Quality I can't argue with. (NFL behind horse racing and boxing in popularity, so money spent on quality control of the ball was probably minimal. )

Lower salaries? True, best athletes played baseball and stuff. How does that mean he did not actually change the position into the designated passer? Ditto fewer teams.

 

[patsfan13]

1) Tom Brady
2) Peyton Manning
3) Dan Marino
4) Joe Montana
5) Johnny Unitas
6) John Elway
7) Otto Graham
8) Aaron Rodgers
9) Steve Young
10) Drew Brees

I know Patriots fans are biased against him, but if your list doesn't contain Manning something is wrong.

Not if you criteria is winning in big spots a poor playoff QB.

 

[lurker1965]

Just for fun I took the names listed and sorted them by career QB Rating:

2005 - Present Rodgers 106.0
1998 - Present Manning 97.5
1985 - 1999 Young 96.8
2000 - Present Brady 95.9
2001 - Present Brees 95.4
1998 - 2009 Warner 93.7
1979 - 1994 Montana 92.3
1946 - 1955 Graham 86.6
1983 - 1999 Marino 86.4
1991 - 2010 Favre 86.0
1969 - 1979 Staubach 83.4
1989 - 2000 Aikman 81.6
1984 - 2000 Moon 80.9
1956 - 1971 Starr 80.5
1983 - 1998 Elway 79.9
1956 - 1973 Unitas 78.2

A few things stood out, present day QB's benefit from a more passer friendly league. Qb's with a passer rating of 90 and above also have completion percentages in the 60+ range. Those in the 80's have completion percentage in the 50's range.

Random Thoughts:

Rodgers is probably the best pure passer we have. Young may be a better passer then Montana. Graham was probably the best of the old timers. Favre and Marino gunslingers to the core. Elways stats kind of shocked me, I guess the running game really helped him out. Warner really was a good QB. Aikman probably owes his success to Emmitt Smith.

This is just the regular season. Playoffs are a whole different story.

Not that it matters, but try comparing each to the league average to take the era bias out. It won't be perfect, especially for really old timers like Sammy Baugh. (By Graham old style RB QBs were gone, but early on they throw off the league average.)

 

[patsfan13]

Rest of the list is good enough to ignore, but Unitas was overrated. He had Raymond Berry, the inventor of timing routes. This is pre-free agency, so he exclusively has receivers he can "throw open." The receiver is covered but will be open briefly when he cuts before the CB recovers. That is a major advantage but his Colts lost out to the Bart Starr led Packers in the pre/early Super Bowl era? Yes, they had an NFL championship in what 1958? Why, with that advantage, did not they go to the NFL championship* regularly? (*and hence early Super Bowls instead of the PackerS.

Unitas was IMO the first modern QB. like Cousy was the first modern Point Guard. Both he and Starr are top 10 QB's.

 

[lurker1965]

Unitas was IMO the first modern QB. like Cousy was the first modern Point Guard. Both he and Starr are top 10 QB's.

I agree that Unitas was the first modern QB, thanks to Raymond Berry and timing routes. With that advantage, comparable to Mike Tyson in a world of pygmies, he should have been unstoppable. Instead Bart Starr was the unstoppable one.

 

[patsfan13]

The Packer running game was unstoppable, passing was complimentary part of their O under Lombardi. Unitas ran and carried the Colt O their
OL and running game weren't comparable IMO.

Love Ray Scott and Lindsay Nelson as announcers back then

 

[Canuck]

I agree that Unitas was the first modern QB, thanks to Raymond Berry and timing routes. With that advantage, comparable to Mike Tyson in a world of pygmies, he should have been unstoppable. Instead Bart Starr was the unstoppable one.

Growing up and living at home, Starr and Unitas were two of my favorite players to watch. It was Starr and the Packers that I became a fan of. Although as an adult, I became a full time Patriots fan, I still root for the Packers in the NFC. Rodgers is my second favorite QB behind Brady.

 

[Tony2046]

Fourier series, whom I quoted, was all time. You can tell because he used Otto Graham.

Stats across eras are stupid. Compare him to people in his era. Baugh is head and shoulders over most because the QB as one of the RBs (along with full back, half back, and tail back)

He was throwing a "modern" football after it changed shape in 1940. Quality I can't argue with. (NFL behind horse racing and boxing in popularity, so money spent on quality control of the ball was probably minimal. )

Lower salaries? True, best athletes played baseball and stuff. How does that mean he did not actually change the position into the designated passer? Ditto fewer teams.

Yeah, I would rather figure out relativity than who was the best QB or player ever. Baugh or Brady, Graham or Montanna, Tesla or Edison.

Anyways Baugh did transform the QB position and was great for his era so he goes in the "one of the all time greats" category along with Brady.

 

[PATS16N0]

I honestly don't understand people who put Peyton Manning and Dan Marino and dudes who can't win the big games as the best ever. I think if TV hadn't been drumming it into people's heads for so many decades it wouldn't get accepted as having some truth, when it really doesn't.

If you were just watching football, never hearing any post game analysis, opinion pieces, no ESPN, no articles, no nothing but pure football, you wouldn't have Peyton Manning or Dan Marino on your lists. You would just be like "Oh, here comes this dude. This guy gets booted out of the playoffs every year in like the first round, every time."

Manning especially is 60% marketing. Even in big regular season games this guy falls to pieces. It doesn't even have to be a playoff game. Have a Patriots v Broncos GET HYPE Brady/Manning bowl and Manning will wilt and Brady will own. The Broncos have been overrated, overhyped fools gold since Davis retired, including 2012, and especially 2013 and 2014.

In 2012 and 2013, they had lost regular season games to basically every AFC team that was in the playoffs. Then for some reason it was a big shock when they got trounced out of them, one-and-done. It was some `huge mystery.`

In 2013 they managed to get a 3rd Chargers game for the season, then an injury ravaged Patriot team that lost 90% of its starters at the skill positions. Smooth sailing, until the Superbowl, and the whole world literally laughed at them. That game ended Manning's legacy. whether cultists want to admit it or not. The 2013 Broncos were complete frauds. If the Patriots were healthy, Denver never goes to that Superbowl, which they clearly didn't deserve to be in.

Nobody respected Peyton in the GOAT conversation after that game. Last season was much different in tone for the Manning hype train. The hyperbole slowed its roll and ended entirely when they did whatever it is you call that against the Colts, who New England annihilated with ease. This year the Manning hype will be like a career eulogy.

The Broncos are hot garbage and always have been, and Peyton hasn't been relevant since his pick 6 to seal the Saints as Superbowl Champions. Peyton Manning's reputation is already starting to wane, like I knew it always would. In 20 years nobody who looks at his 9 (soon to be 10) one-and-dones will put him on their top 5, and few will give him top #10. This year he is to the NFL what CM Punk is to the UFC. He's like a freakshow-fight that gets attention. He's not there to actually win. He's there to surpass someone's career QB records so the Broncos mascot can come out and ride across on TV with the flag.

It'll seem really important to some people in October.

They'll do the thing with the thing and then the other thing and it's just a circus show for attention, then real football starts and they get humiliated.

 

[james87654]

I honestly don't understand people who put Peyton Manning and Dan Marino and dudes who can't win the big games as the best ever. I think if TV hadn't been drumming it into people's heads for so many decades it wouldn't get accepted as having some truth, when it really doesn't.

If you were just watching football, never hearing any post game analysis, opinion pieces, no ESPN, no articles, no nothing but pure football, you wouldn't have Peyton Manning or Dan Marino on your lists. You would just be like "Oh, here comes this dude. This guy gets booted out of the playoffs every year in like the first round, every time."

Manning especially is 60% marketing. Even in big regular season games this guy falls to pieces. It doesn't even have to be a playoff game. Have a Patriots v Broncos GET HYPE Brady/Manning bowl and Manning will wilt and Brady will own. The Broncos have been overrated, overhyped fools gold since Davis retired, including 2012, and especially 2013 and 2014.

In 2012 and 2013, they had lost regular season games to basically every AFC team that was in the playoffs. Then for some reason it was a big shock when they got trounced out of them, one-and-done. It was some `huge mystery.`

In 2013 they managed to get a 3rd Chargers game for the season, then an injury ravaged Patriot team that lost 90% of its starters at the skill positions. Smooth sailing, until the Superbowl, and the whole world literally laughed at them. That game ended Manning's legacy. whether cultists want to admit it or not. The 2013 Broncos were complete frauds. If the Patriots were healthy, Denver never goes to that Superbowl, which they clearly didn't deserve to be in.

Nobody respected Peyton in the GOAT conversation after that game. Last season was much different in tone for the Manning hype train. The hyperbole slowed its roll and ended entirely when they did whatever it is you call that against the Colts, who New England annihilated with ease. This year the Manning hype will be like a career eulogy.

The Broncos are hot garbage and always have been, and Peyton hasn't been relevant since his pick 6 to seal the Saints as Superbowl Champions. Peyton Manning's reputation is already starting to wane, like I knew it always would. In 20 years nobody who looks at his 9 (soon to be 10) one-and-dones will put him on their top 5, and few will give him top #10. This year he is to the NFL what CM Punk is to the UFC. He's like a freakshow-fight that gets attention. He's not there to actually win. He's there to surpass someone's career QB records so the Broncos mascot can come out and ride across on TV with the flag.

It'll seem really important to some people in October.

They'll do the thing with the thing and then the other thing and it's just a circus show for attention, then real football starts and they get humiliated.

manning is like an OC on the field....on top of being an amazing QB.....its awe inspiring to watch

but brady is great, too

 

[PATS16N0]

He's like the kind of OC on the field that can't call or execute a playoff game. The kind that get fired a lot.

 

[Tony2046]

manning is like an OC on the field....on top of being an amazing QB.....its awe inspiring to watch

but brady is great, too

You've got it backwards, it's not Manning is awe inspiring it's Manning inspires you to say Awwww.....(poor guy or too bad or poor baby).

Manning is the ultimate example of why stats do not paint the whole picture. He has had some of the biggest flops on the biggest stages.

 

[Deus Irae]

You've got it backwards, it's not Manning is awe inspiring it's Manning inspires you to say Awwww.....(poor guy or too bad or poor baby).

Manning is the ultimate example of why stats do not paint the whole picture. He has had some of the biggest flops on the biggest stages.

Nobody gestures as wildy and needlessly as Peyton Manning. It's a beautiful sight to behold! And his vocals are to die for:

"Omaha! Omaha!"

That's so much sexier than Brady's boring old "51's the Mike".


Reality:

Brady and Manning are elite QBs. Both have significant input into weekly game plans. Both have a lot of freedom to make changes at the line. Neither calls his own plays, for the most part (I'm leaving out hurry up situations, obviously).

 

[Tony2046]

Nobody gestures as wildy and needlessly as Peyton Manning. It's a beautiful sight to behold! And his vocals are to die for:

"Omaha! Omaha!"

That's so much sexier than Brady's boring old "51's the Mike".


Reality:

Brady and Manning are elite QBs. Both have significant input into weekly game plans. Both have a lot of freedom to make changes at the line. Neither calls his own plays, for the most part (I'm leaving out hurry up situations, obviously).

I can't agree with you on that one. I used to consider Manning elite but elite has to include the composure it takes to stand in the big moments and deliver and he does not have that.

 

[Joker]

manning is like an OC on the field....on top of being an amazing QB.....its awe inspiring to watch

but brady is great, too

Come up for air for krissakes...wait, don't tell me...Paytie had Uncle John's pizza for lunch, right? ..