Too much scheme...

[Ring 6]

This team had little shot at jump balls with Gronkowski out, or deep completions not as a result of huge defensive errors.

Jump balls? Who throws jump balls as a good decision?
We completed more deep passes than most teams actually.
In the divisional round Brady hit both Welker and Vereen deep up the sidelines for a 50 yard gain and a TD. Did those not happen?

 

[Tunescribe]

In the end, too much scheme, too much time being smart. Hopefully next year they can simplify things and go out and make plays. Maybe they need more talent to play this style but in the current state they expect almost perfect execution which becomes increasingly difficult as the competition gets more intense.

How on earth did you reach this conclusion? It makes no sense whatsoever. Would you rather that the Patriots NOT scheme, be stupid and get 0 yards? It's all about creating mismatches, which the "scheme" and pre-snap/post-snap reads are all about. They were the No. 1 offense in the league because of this. They blew out the Texans in the playoffs and got more than 400 yards against Baltimore, stumbling in the red zone. They got beat by a really good team, not by "too much scheme."

 

[PatsFanInVa]

You are about to get bombarded by people telling you that this team can't do anything without Welker and that we don't need an outside receiver :bricks: good luck my friend, I agree with you whole heartedly

Not me. I'm going to go after him for diving in too deep on the whole knights templar thing and actually reading Holy Blood, Holy Grail.

Everything has something to do with the Templars.

 

[Nikolai]

So the solution to our problems is to adopt the Rex Ryan strategy on offense?

 

[Off The Grid]

Too Many Mind, AlgrenSon!!

Be The Ball, Danny...

Respectfully submitted: If you thinking that our Scheming to create mismatches and decipher the Defense is anything less than Brilliant ~ much less Part of the Problem ~ then you've been thinking about this too hard.

 

[Brady2Moss]

The point is they have to try incredibly hard to move the ball a few yards and when they run into a good team that doesn't allow YAC and blow assignments they struggle heavily. I think 13 points against an old defense says enough about this teams offensive ability. Something needs to change.

 

[Ring 6]

The point is they have to try incredibly hard to move the ball a few yards and when they run into a good team that doesn't allow YAC and blow assignments they struggle heavily. I think 13 points against an old defense says enough about this teams offensive ability. Something needs to change.

So you want them to not try hard to gain yards? This is an insane point of view.

 

[Tunescribe]

The point is they have to try incredibly hard to move the ball a few yards and when they run into a good team that doesn't allow YAC and blow assignments they struggle heavily. I think 13 points against an old defense says enough about this teams offensive ability. Something needs to change.

The scheme was stupendously successful this past season. What needs to change offensively: healthy Gronk, more WR speed (w/reliable hands) on the outside.

 

[Ring 6]

The point is they have to try incredibly hard to move the ball a few yards and when they run into a good team that doesn't allow YAC and blow assignments they struggle heavily. I think 13 points against an old defense says enough about this teams offensive ability. Something needs to change.

You realize that your argument is now that the reason you feel you are right that the problem is shifting and motion is that the offense was only the 3rd highest scoring in NFL history then scored 41 points in the divisional round before gaining 428 yards but fing up in the red zone and scored 13 therefore something is wrong with the offense, and BOOM your idea is right.

 

[DocHoliday]

Jump balls? Who throws jump balls as a good decision?
We completed more deep passes than most teams actually.
In the divisional round Brady hit both Welker and Vereen deep up the sidelines for a 50 yard gain and a TD. Did those not happen?

Ask the Giants and Ravens.

You spend so much time browbeating and pidgeonholing you missed the overall point. It's not that the team is TOO SMART and that we need to 'get dumb' (I know you really don't think he said that, you're just looking for something to attack).

It's that the offense without Gronk doesn't have what it takes to score when the 'smart' plays are taken away. We all know this - when the high powered New England offense just... stops the handful of times every year, and we're all left to wonder how it all worked with a couple short runningbacks, a solid possession receiver, an athletic slot receiver, and a small, quick TE by the end of the season.

Frankly it's a testament to the scheme and Tom Brady it does so much. But in the end, too little depth.

 

[Ring 6]

The scheme was stupendously successful this past season. What needs to change offensively: healthy Gronk, more WR speed (w/reliable hands) on the outside.

The game plan for the AFCCG was weak, IMO.
We shouldn't need Gronk or any other WRS than we had to beat that team.

 

[Brady2Moss]

You realize that your argument is now that the reason you feel you are right that the problem is shifting and motion is that the offense was only the 3rd highest scoring in NFL history then scored 41 points in the divisional round before gaining 428 yards but fing up in the red zone and scored 13 therefore something is wrong with the offense, and BOOM your idea is right.

The point is they need to try insanely hard to get a few yards because they do not have the physical talent to get them otherwise. There are deficiencies in physicality and speed in our receivers that only get open due to scheme.

You can keep drinking the Koolaid I literally laugh out loud at some of the homer posts on this board waving the shiny 3rd highest scoring offense and all the other 500+ point BS when we get bounced out of the playoffs EVERY YEAR against the same type of team.

I was agreeing with the OP, the lack of ability to get open against good defenses is a huge problem and part of it is because they don't have the physical talent to get open without extra scheming. It is fine against the Dolphins, Bills, and Jets totally inept teams that do not have the talent or coaching to keep up.

From the same people for the last 3 years I've seen essentially the same post bashing anyone saying the offense is a problem

-highest scoring blah blah
-we just screwed up! (red zone, welker drop last year, brady int 2010), at what point do you finally give up and realize the offense is a problem in the playoffs?

People are out of their minds if they think 13 points is acceptable ever in the playoffs when your Quarterback takes about 1/6 of your cap space.

 

[Ring 6]

Ask the Giants and Ravens.

Why? They dont throw jump balls.

You spend so much time browbeating and pidgeonholing you missed the overall point. It's not that the team is TOO SMART and that we need to 'get dumb' (I know you really don't think he said that, you're just looking for something to attack).

Nah, thats the opposite of being too smart.

It's that the offense without Gronk doesn't have what it takes to score when the 'smart' plays are taken away.

There just isnt such a thing as a 'smart play'

We all know this - when the high powered New England offense just... stops, and we're all left to wonder how it all worked with a couple short runningbacks, a solid possession receiver, an athletic slot receiver, and a small, quick TE by the end of the season.

Too little depth.

Teams have bad days. This team in fact moved the ball up and down the field all day, and had a handful of bad plays. If you took the 6 trips inside the 25 and replayed the game, each drive, from when they got inside the 25, 100 times, they would have averaged over 30 points a game.
When a team just doesnt make plays in one game that it is in postion to make and usually does that last thing it is a condemnation of is the system. You remember the system, the one that scored the 3rd most points of any team in NFL history.

 

[Brady2Moss]

You remember the system, the one that scored the 3rd most points of any team in NFL history.

This is the worst argument ever it does not matter what they score in the regular season when they pad their stats against mediocre competition.

Playoff output since 07 when this amazing system was changed to its current Welker-centric form:

31 - Jags
21 - Chargers
14 - Giants
14 - Baltimore
21 - Jets (Garbage time touchdown really was 14)
45 - Denver
23 - Baltimore
17 - Giants
41 - Texans
13 - Ravens

3 Good playoff performances in the last 4 playoff runs, that is your amazing system. Not to mention the Jags, Denver, and Texans were crap teams by the time we faced them in the playoffs.

 

[Ring 6]

The point is they need to try insanely hard to get a few yards because they do not have the physical talent to get them otherwise. There are deficiencies in physicality and speed in our receivers that only get open due to scheme.

Keep changing the adjective but you are still wrong. Please explain how send a man in motion is trying insanely hard

You can keep drinking the Koolaid I literally laugh out loud at some of the homer posts on this board waving the shiny 3rd highest scoring offense and all the other 500+ point BS when we get bounced out of the playoffs EVERY YEAR against the same type of team.

And I laugh out loud at the childish crying about it. We have a tremendous offense. Tremendous offenses have bad days.
The only way the teams are the same is that they scored more points than we did.

I was agreeing with the OP, the lack of ability to get open against good defenses is a huge problem and part of it is because they don't have the physical talent to get open without extra scheming.

There is no extra scheming

It is fine against the Dolphins, Bills, and Jets totally inept teams that do not have the talent or coaching to keep up.

And Houston is inept. Let me get this straight. Teams we beat are inept. Teams we lose to are all the same. In other words, create conclusion then pretend data fits.

From the same people for the last 3 years I've seen essentially the same post bashing anyone saying the offense is a problem

How is disagreeing bashing?

-highest scoring blah blah

is it not?

-we just screwed up! (red zone, welker drop last year, brady int 2010), at what point do you finally give up and realize the offense is a problem in the playoffs?

Do we win if Welker makes the catch in 11? If Brady doesnt throw the only pick ive ever seen him throw on a screen in 10, or if we execute in the red zone this year?
REASONS are not excuses.

People are out of their minds if they think 13 points is acceptable ever in the playoffs when your Quarterback takes about 1/6 of your cap space.

Who said that 13 points was acceptable? Who said losing was accpetable?
Your ridiculous idea about what caused 13 points is stupid is not the same as 13 points is acceptable.

 

[Ring 6]

This is the worst argument ever it does not matter what they score in the regular season when they pad their stats against mediocre competition.

I am comparing them to every regular season ever.

Playoff output since 07 when this amazing system was changed to its current Welker-centric form:

31 - Jags
21 - Chargers
14 - Giants
14 - Baltimore
21 - Jets (Garbage time touchdown really was 14)
45 - Denver
23 - Baltimore
17 - Giants
41 - Texans
13 - Ravens

3 Good playoff performances in the last 4 playoff runs, that is your amazing system. Not to mention the Jags, Denver, and Texans were crap teams by the time we faced them in the playoffs.

Thats 24 points per game, which is a very good post season average.

 

[Brady2Moss]

I am comparing them to every regular season ever.


Thats 24 points per game, which is a very good post season average.

Lol ya brought up by 45, 41, and 31 points against crap competition. Acting like Houston was a big challenge is laughable they were awful down the stretch they started 10-1 and went 3-4 to end the year.

You can keep acting like the offense isn't a problem and making excuses I don't care. Stop picking out one thing I never said man in motion ever in any of my posts you've picked this out of one guys posts and are assigning it to everyone that disagrees with you. It's a gimmick offense that has trouble playing when another team is prepared as seen countless times in the playoffs. Flood the middle and this team is in for a long day.

And ya it is the highest scoring offense of all time at the end of the day no one gives a crap it never is the highest scoring offense in the playoffs or anywhere close to it, it actually craps out of the playoffs worse than most teams, if I look back on our last few years I bet our points scored in the last game of each season was amongst the lowest for all playoff teams.

I'm done with this argument the results speak for themselves. Team has won nothing since having Welker as the focus of the offense. Here's to hoping Welker is off this team next year so that they are forced to make a move that will drop us to 450-500 points in the regular season, but a team capable of scoring 28 points against good teams in the POs.

 

[Ring 6]

Lol ya brought up by 45, 41, and 31 points against crap competition. Acting like Houston was a big challenge is laughable they were awful down the stretch they started 10-1 and went 3-4 to end the year.

But Baltimore was when they started 9-2 then went 1-4 down the stretch?

You can keep acting like the offense isn't a problem and making excuses I don't care. Stop picking out one thing I never said man in motion ever in any of my posts you've picked this out of one guys posts and are assigning it to everyone that disagrees with you. It's a gimmick offense that has trouble playing when another team is prepared as seen countless times in the playoffs. Flood the middle and this team is in for a long day.

Please explain to me how it is a gimmick offense

And ya it is the highest scoring offense of all time at the end of the day no one gives a crap it never is the highest scoring offense in the playoffs or anywhere close to it, it actually craps out of the playoffs worse than most teams, if I look back on our last few years I bet our points scored in the last game of each season was amongst the lowest for all playoff teams.

Every year 20 teams do not make the playoffs, 11 lose in the playoffs, and 1 wins the SB. The Patriots have been to 2 of the last 6 SBs, losing each by 1 play. They have been to 4 of the last 7 AFCCGs. They have won their division 9 of the last 10 years. It is a circular argument to say they were worse in their last loss of the season than in their wins.

I'm done with this argument the results speak for themselves.

You were done before you started.

Team has won nothing since having Welker as the focus of the offense.

More games than any other team
2 AFC Championships
5 of 6 AFCE titles
5 postseason wins
is your idea of NOTHING?

Here's to hoping Welker is off this team next year so that they are forced to make a move that will drop us to 450-500 points in the regular season, but a team capable of scoring 28 points against good teams in the POs.

Great plan!!!! Lets make the offense worse, That will surely add to more points in the season.
I think that you are very consistent now. Smart offense is bad, get stupid. Smart ideas are bad, adopt stupid ones.

 

[DocHoliday]

Why? They dont throw jump balls.


Nah, thats the opposite of being too smart.


There just isnt such a thing as a 'smart play'


Teams have bad days. This team in fact moved the ball up and down the field all day, and had a handful of bad plays. If you took the 6 trips inside the 25 and replayed the game, each drive, from when they got inside the 25, 100 times, they would have averaged over 30 points a game.
When a team just doesnt make plays in one game that it is in postion to make and usually does that last thing it is a condemnation of is the system. You remember the system, the one that scored the 3rd most points of any team in NFL history.

Jump ball to Bolden in the endzone. Covered by two DBs just caught it over the top.

There are "smart" plays - it's the free yards when you run super no huddle and get uncontested yards/points. It's a kick in the gut when it stops working though.

Teams have bad days? So apparently this offense just has a bad day everytime it goes into the playoffs and faces quality defenses.

It's an amazing offense - except when it loses Gronk and the no huddle stops working.

When people - rightly or wrongly, possible or not - talk about getting rid of Welker to make room (cap wise) for a tall speedy guy they are indeed conceding the offense will score less points.

The idea is that while it would no longer pile on 40 points on 90% of the league, it wouldn't be reduced to a pathetic mess by the other 10% with an injury or two.

Aside from the availability of such players, I'd trade a couple PPG for that, wouldn't you?

 

[Joker]

I saw the Boldin "jump ball" catch up close...I mean real close, like 15 yards away...I don't recall it being a jump ball..from field level, Flacco threw it right to Boldin's hands with both DB's looking up helplessly. They were outmatched physically. To me, the only way to stop that play is at the LOS with a pass rush...now THAT is something we all never saw that day, on TV or in person.