Too many receivers?

[Ring 6]

Well, you got certain people who take a comment about Edelman that was made in week 14 and referenced weeks 12 and 13 and they blow it out of proportion to encompass the entire season while ignoring the fact that Edelman wasn't used much other than on punt returns because he was behind Welker, Moss/Branch, Tate, Gronkowski, Hernandez, and Faulk/Woodhead when it comes to receiving.. I mean, when you're 7th on the receivers dept chart, you should be putting up 40-50 catches and 700 yards because TFB is throwing the ball.. didn't you know that??

I think the fact that he couldnt earn being more than the 7th option (tied with 3rd string RB Morris and 1 catch ahead of 3rd TE Crumpler) IS the issue.
Its not a complement to him that he couldn't earn playing time

 

[supafly]

Maybe I should have been here earlier after this deal to catch the giddy reactions... gotta say, surprised to see reactions like this one... I'm not sure I can imagine any other fanbase picking up Ochocinco, and having a thread called "Too many receivers" that day or a day later

Only here do you see multiple threads every single week on the "exceptional NEED for an added outside WR," then we actually get one that many want and predicted--and suddenly the next thread is "Too many receivers." LOL.

(no offense to the thread starter, as I too agree that it is at least a reasonable question)

The great thing is that we are now having MANY positional discussions at QB, WR, RB, TE, DL, CB, S etc where we are wondering exactly 'HOW' all of these guys are going to make the roster. In the meantime Belichick just continues to do his job exceptionally well, as he has now gone out and made some serious competition at many positions--which is what we all wanted.

 

[RayClay]

Maybe I should have been here earlier after this deal to catch the giddy reactions... gotta say, surprised to see reactions like this one... I'm not sure I can imagine any other fanbase picking up Ochocinco, and having a thread called "Too many receivers" that day or a day later

If we needed another receiver and we have one now (whoever, maybe a current player) then we don't have too many.

Binkies are fun, but you need to address weaknesses that have been exploited.

 

[Ring 6]

What ever happened to all those off season rumblings of Welker being traded? This actually makes sense considering Edelman is a younger Welker, and comes at a much reduced salary.

Lets trade Brady because Hoyer is a younger cheaper Brady.

 

[Ring 6]

Too many receivers? No.

They may still need one more.

Johnson
Branch
Welker


That's the 3 you keep

Edelman
Tate
Price

That's the 3 you might need to upgrade.

There may be potential in that bottom 3, but there is nothing reliable and nothing you cant do without either.

 

[strngplyr]

Lets trade Brady because Hoyer is a younger cheaper Brady.

Forget that, trade them both, we have Ryan Mallet.

 

[RayClay]

In the BB house of "buy low sell high" I have to assume that Welker is being shopped. We have both Branch and Edleman that can play the slot, and we know how BB values his 2nd rd picks! Tate/Price could earn a spot taking over Slater's duties on ST but BB obviously hasnt been happy with his 3rd WR for a long time now.
11-?????
10-Tate--Holt got hurt
09-Galloway
08-Gaffney
07-Stallworth
06-Gabriel
05-T.Brown
04-T.Brown
03-Givens
02-Branch
01-C.Johnson/T.Glenn

Obviously we have been fortunate that injuries havent hit this position recently. A year off knee surgery into a contract year, a WR over 30....better to trade Welker than give up on Tate/Price/Edleman and see them succeed with other teams.

BB doesn't trade proven performers hoping for maybes to come through.

Who cares if they succeed with other teams if they can't crack the production lineup here?

Lots of other "potential" players become available elsewhere too. Performers rarely do.

 

[supafly]

I think the fact that he couldnt earn being more than the 7th option (tied with 3rd string RB Morris and 1 catch ahead of 3rd TE Crumpler) IS the issue.
Its not a complement to him that he couldn't earn playing time

Edelman is a puzzling situation to me at times. We've all seen the great potential, shiftiness, possible future player here--etc.

I wonder if the overall change in the offense last yr, with the trading of Moss, the emergence of the TE's, and the return of Branch, could have contributed to his lack of targets?

Obviously, we all agree that he lost some of Brady's confidence with some untimely drops, but on the other hand, I wonder to what extent??

Personally, I would rather keep him 100x over, rather than see him become the possibility of a casualty. I think there is a place on this team for him, not just as a backup WR, but the obvious punt returning abilities, as he does provide some versatility and value.

That said, I do not agree with those who say that he 'could just step in and take over WWW's role,' as I feel that there would be significant dropoff not only in talent and experience, but also in QB/WR chemistry and trust.

One way or another, I personally do not feel as though he should be worried about losing a spot on the roster, I would think it would be Branch before him. There's also the possibility that BB knows something that we don't, such as one of Tate/Price not being able to pick up the system well enough, not giving their all, etc. (I know this thinking is a stretch, but I would still think that it may be a slight possibility). The bottom line is that I think Edelman will stay, and possibly even be here for awhile down the road.

 

[andrewgarrr]

Brady, Hoyer, Mallett (3)
Green-Ellis, Woodhead, Vereen, Ridley, Morris (5)
Welker, Chad, Branch, Tate, Price, Edelman (6)
Gronkowski, Hernandez, Smith (3)
Vollmer, Mankins, Koppen, Light, Connolly, Solder, Cannon, Orhnberger/Wendell/Levoir (8)
Wilfork, Wright, Warren, Haynesworth, Brace, Deaderick, Stroud/Pryor/Love (7)
Mayo, Spikes, Fletcher, Guyton, Ninkovich, Cunningham, Moore/Carter/Murrell (7)
Bodden, McCourty, Arrington, Butler, Dowling, Chung, Meriweather, Sanders/Page (8)
Gostkowski, Long-snapper, Mesko (3)

50.

 

[supafly]

BB doesn't trade proven performers hoping for maybes to come through.

Who cares if they succeed with other teams if they can't crack the production lineup here?

Lots of other "potential" players become available elsewhere too. Performers rarely do.

I couldn't imagine why he'd want to trade Wes..although I hear others talk about it here.

To me, Welker represents everything we really could ask for in a player, and is still the 'typical Patriot.' I think he will re-up on a much more reasonable deal than some here think, and if I had to guess I'd think he'd be damn happy with 6 million per on an extension.

Just knowing where Welker will be, and the overall trust/chemistry and being able to correctly read and change routes has got to make Brady feel as though this offense still revolves around 83 in a very major way.

To those who feel that Edelman is now somehow 'ready' to take over the role of 83--please explain your rationale, as I could use a good laugh..

 

[andrewgarrr]

I couldn't imagine why he'd want to trade Wes..although I hear others talk about it here.

To me, Welker represents everything we really could ask for in a player, and is still the 'typical Patriot.' I think he will re-up on a much more reasonable deal than some here think, and if I had to guess I'd think he'd be damn happy with 6 million per on an extension.

Just knowing where Welker will be, and the overall trust/chemistry and being able to correctly read and change routes has got to make Brady feel as though this offense still revolves around 83 in a very major way.

To those who feel that Edelman is now somehow 'ready' to take over the role of 83--please explain your rationale, as I could use a good laugh..

He's white and short.

 

[Ring 6]

Edelman is a puzzling situation to me at times. We've all seen the great potential, shiftiness, possible future player here--etc.

I wonder if the overall change in the offense last yr, with the trading of Moss, the emergence of the TE's, and the return of Branch, could have contributed to his lack of targets?

Obviously, we all agree that he lost some of Brady's confidence with some untimely drops, but on the other hand, I wonder to what extent??

Personally, I would rather keep him 100x over, rather than see him become the possibility of a casualty. I think there is a place on this team for him, not just as a backup WR, but the obvious punt returning abilities, as he does provide some versatility and value.

That said, I do not agree with those who say that he 'could just step in and take over WWW's role,' as I feel that there would be significant dropoff not only in talent and experience, but also in QB/WR chemistry and trust.

One way or another, I personally do not feel as though he should be worried about losing a spot on the roster, I would think it would be Branch before him. There's also the possibility that BB knows something that we don't, such as one of Tate/Price not being able to pick up the system well enough, not giving their all, etc. (I know this thinking is a stretch, but I would still think that it may be a slight possibility). The bottom line is that I think Edelman will stay, and possibly even be here for awhile down the road.

You lose me with the idea the Branch, a VERY productive WR last year would be cut to keep a good athlete would returns kicks as we are attempting to turn into a role playing WR.
Look, I understand the whole underdog thing, but Edelman is a guy who either makes the team on special teams, or because the last guy he is competing with at WR is a stiff. The guy caught 7 passes all year in a Tom Brady offense. What expectations could you possibly have and how long will you wait? Players being converted to a new position who digress in year 2 are not future stars.
I hope he is here, because he will add to special teams. But he isnt beating out a REAL WR unless we are so deep that the guy kept wont see the field as a WR and its a st decision.

 

[supafly]

Brady, Hoyer, Mallett (3)
Green-Ellis, Woodhead, Vereen, Ridley, Morris (5)
Welker, Chad, Branch, Tate, Price, Edelman (6)
Gronkowski, Hernandez, Smith (3)
Vollmer, Mankins, Koppen, Light, Connolly, Solder, Cannon, Orhnberger/Wendell/Levoir (8)
Wilfork, Wright, Warren, Haynesworth, Brace, Deaderick, Stroud/Pryor/Love (7)
Mayo, Spikes, Fletcher, Guyton, Ninkovich, Cunningham, Moore/Carter/Murrell (7)
Bodden, McCourty, Arrington, Butler, Dowling, Chung, Meriweather, Sanders/Page (8)
Gostkowski, Long-snapper, Mesko (3)

50.

You're on the right track, no doubt..There's plenty of ways that we can keep most of the players that we want/need, especially at WR AND RB.

It'd be hard to find someone to agree on the 53 man predictions, but this isn't too bad at all.

If I had to nit-pick, I'd say that you need at one more OLB, one more OL, and one more safety. That said, Cannon may very well start on PUP, so we'd need to shift around only 2 positions instead of 3. There's always the possibility that only 2 ST-only players will stick this yr, and that you still have room for additions at

--OLB (can't have only 3 IMO)

--OL (maybe...)

--S (can't have only 3 IMO, as 3 are on the field in big nickle situations already. This one definitely needs an addition, unless you are somehow assuming that Dowling can be the 4th safety when needed. I will not make that assumption, at least not until next yr. Definitely not in his rookie yr)

(choose 2 out of 3)--subtract Cannon (PUP) and you'd still have 51.

I'd choose my 2 out of 3 (minus Cannon PUP) at OLB and S, thus leaving 2 ST-only positions for Slater and (hopefully T.White)...the other gunner can be a DB.

 

[supafly]

You lose me with the idea the Branch, a VERY productive WR last year would be cut to keep a good athlete would returns kicks as we are attempting to turn into a role playing WR.
Look, I understand the whole underdog thing, but Edelman is a guy who either makes the team on special teams, or because the last guy he is competing with at WR is a stiff. The guy caught 7 passes all year in a Tom Brady offense. What expectations could you possibly have and how long will you wait? Players being converted to a new position who digress in year 2 are not future stars.
I hope he is here, because he will add to special teams. But he isnt beating out a REAL WR unless we are so deep that the guy kept wont see the field as a WR and its a st decision.

I recognize your thinking here Andy. To answer the question, I would lean more towards Branch due to his tendency for injury and age, although I realize that you aren't going to agree with me.

I would really like to give Edelman at least one more yr to see if he leaned more towards the first yr's hyped potential, or more towards last yr's downward curve. Like I said, I wonder if there is any chance that the overall change in approach (Moss being traded, TE re-emergence, and Branch acquisition) had anything to do with him having a hard time seeing the field?? I am sure it had SOMETHING to do with it, in some form, but I don't suppose we'll find out any time soon exactly, to what extent?

As far as many comparing Wes to Edelman, I would think that Edelman could possibly take over some of Branch's receptions and value before taking over Welker's.

It's not that I am bagging on Branch/down on Branch, it's just that IF a move had to be made towards the future, I would want to give Edelman one more yr to see which way he leans, as explained.

Thankfully, I don't have to make these decisions, as BB knows best and makes the big bucks to do so

In a perfect world, I want to keep all 6, and take away one of the ST-only roles, as I feel that Slater, either White/Murrell/Carter even, could pair with an actual positional CB as the 3 ST-only guys. (Edit: I guess if the 3rd guy would be an actual positional CB, he would not be a ST-only guy, and we'd only have 2 actual straight up ST-only positions..but you know what I mean)

 

[Fencer]

Brady, Hoyer, Mallett (3)
Green-Ellis, Woodhead, Vereen, Ridley, Morris (5)
Welker, Chad, Branch, Tate, Price, Edelman (6)
Gronkowski, Hernandez, Smith (3)
Vollmer, Mankins, Koppen, Light, Connolly, Solder, Cannon, Orhnberger/Wendell/Levoir (8)
Wilfork, Wright, Warren, Haynesworth, Brace, Deaderick, Stroud/Pryor/Love (7)
Mayo, Spikes, Fletcher, Guyton, Ninkovich, Cunningham, Moore/Carter/Murrell (7)
Bodden, McCourty, Arrington, Butler, Dowling, Chung, Meriweather, Sanders/Page (8)
Gostkowski, Long-snapper, Mesko (3)

50.

6 non-rookie OL is light, especially when the rooks haven't had an offseason.

3 safeties is light.

3 OLB feels light.

There usually are 2 ST-only guys as well.

That gets us up to 55, although one of the WRs you cited is expendable.

 

[patsfan-1982]

#1 Chad Ochocinco,
#2 Deion Branch,
#3 Wes Welker, starting at slot WR
#4 Brandon Tate, WR/KR
#5 Julian Edelman, WR/PR
#6 Taylor Price, will be inactive for almost every game
#7 Matthew Slater, ST only


does are the WR's for 2011

 

[Fencer]

#1 Chad Ochocinco,
#2 Deion Branch,
#3 Wes Welker, starting at slot WR
#4 Brandon Tate, WR/KR
#5 Julian Edelman, WR/PR
#6 Taylor Price, will be inactive for almost every game
#7 Matthew Slater, ST only


does are the WR's for 2011

That looks like too many WRs.

We need depth at QB (there's a valuable rookie to keep).
We need depth at OL (there will be two rookies).
We need depth at RB (ditto).
We have reason for depth at TE (embarrassment of riches, although the last time we were that embarrassed we jettisoned Dave Thomas).
We need depth at DL (Haynesworth and Wright are big question marks because of their heads, in very different ways).
We need depth at OLB (everybody is a question mark).
We have an embarrassment of riches at safety.
One can never have too many QBs.

We have to skimp somewhere.

 

[NEPats1]

Is this a little premature from Reiss?

Uphill climb for Price at receiver. With the Patriots trading for Chad Ochocinco, this is going to make it a challenge for Price, the 2010 third-round draft choice from Ohio, to make the roster if everyone is healthy. Price essentially had a red-shirt year as a rookie, playing in just the season finale after missing spring camps because Ohio had yet to graduate, and his future has been a hot topic of discussion this offseason. With Ochocinco, Deion Branch, Wes Welker, Brandon Tate and Julian Edelman all likely to stick, Price is in a tough spot. If the Patriots' decision-makers thought Price was ready to emerge, I don't think they would have traded for Ochocinco.

Quick-hit thoughts entering Day 2 - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

 

[supafly]

Is this a little premature from Reiss?

Absolutely it is..

We haven't seen anything at all from Price, and he is a relatively high draft pick.

If it's Price that goes, I'll be surprised. It must have meant that he is not adjusting properly to the read/react route running, but I have no idea how that'd be the case when he hasn't even really seen live game reps.

If it is b/c someone is not picking up the offense, I have my opinion on who that may be, and it's not Taylor Price..

There's many possibilities IMO--

1. They keep 6 WR's, and Slater's ST only role is done (doubtful IMO)

2. They trade someone, but who exactly? And please don't say Welker...

3. They move on from Branch, and look towards the future. Yes, I understand that he had a decent role here, but that may have been a "2010" role. As far as looking towards the future, he is certainly the one who is sticking out, at ;east to me. Do many here actually feel as though he was going to be re-signed next yr. I doubt it.

4. They are done with the Brandon Tate project--for reasons unknown to us, but well known to Belichick. There's the possibility that he is not a hard worker (speculation, and unfair speculation at that). There's the possibility that he does not pick up the system well, or has not won over the trust of Brady. There's the possibility that Belichick does not think that he has enough use in this offense moving forward in terms of his skill set. Or maybe the rumors that he is not adjusting well to the NFL/NEP read and react routes are indeed true. I have heard that he is not exactly the brightest bulb on the team, but again...they are just rumors, which mean absolutely nothing.

5. Edelman's transformation to WR took a significant amount of steps backwards, so much that the coaches feel that he does not have enough to offer here

Whatever the case, Price's speed and all around downfield threat + potential for the future as a young, fast, valued rookie contract guy should be just fine. I can't imagine BB just getting rid of him without at least giving him the opportunity to work first?!!! That just doesn't sound like a Belichick type move to me at all.

Yes, Reiss is totally jumping the gun and entirely off-base IMO.

If I had to make a choice as to who may go it'd be either Slater, Tate, or Branch--yet each one has reasons why they wouldn't specifically make sense.

 

[supafly]

#1 Chad Ochocinco,
#2 Deion Branch,
#3 Wes Welker, starting at slot WR
#4 Brandon Tate, WR/KR
#5 Julian Edelman, WR/PR
#6 Taylor Price, will be inactive for almost every game
#7 Matthew Slater, ST only


does are the WR's for 2011

Taylor Price will be 'inactive for almost every game?'

Again...for the 2nd yr in a row out of 2 yrs???

Sure am glad that we wasted a high pick on him, so that we could sit back wondering if he has anything to offer or not.

No way Taylor Price is inactive for almost every game for the 2nd yr in a row, without even the possibility to show us anything at all. To me, that makes absolutely no sense at all.