Welcome to PatsFans.com

Too Fast, Too Furious?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PatsFanInVa, Jun 28, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2006
    Messages:
    20,531
    Likes Received:
    292
    Ratings:
    +563 / 7 / -9

    Fortune Magazine's out with the results of six months' work of investigation... "Why, that's interesting!."

    The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal - Fortune Features

    Good read.
  2. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2007
    Messages:
    8,550
    Likes Received:
    19
    Ratings:
    +34 / 0 / -0

    Well there you have it then.... According to Fortune 500's investigation, it's all much ado about nothing. They read 2000 documents after all and talked to a few people that have a real incentive to lie.

    No sweat then, we'll just review the other 76,000 documents and be on our way. Oh wait, Holder is refusing to cooperate, and telling a body that has every right to ask for them to pound sand.

    Remember, the cover up ALWAYS overshadows and is worse then the crime itself. Holder is about to find that out.
  3. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    41,788
    Likes Received:
    180
    Ratings:
    +364 / 11 / -27

    Read part of it, and it is way complicated. Without regard, there seems to be a lot of political motivation to pursue Holder and Obama.

    Issa has been flip flopping since last Sunday he said that Obama was not involved, but Tuesday he said he was. This makes great theater, and wonder if they got off the big stage and went to a private room this could be resolved. But we have a congress that is more inclined to focus on this theater than to get results.

    One thing that has become obvious, is that Crybaby Boehner is not all that hot on this issue.. take for example scheduling this today, the same day as the Supreme Court Decision on healthcare.
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2012
  4. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Messages:
    6,140
    Likes Received:
    309
    Ratings:
    +671 / 1 / -1

    #54 Jersey

    The author establishes her stance.

    The hero is described.

    "Gun violence prevention laws". Sounds Orwellian.

    There you have it, right? Poor ATF.

    The baddie is introduced.

    Hit piece on Dodson? Firing off emails at the strapping, sandy-haired, punctilious, and methodical Voth?

    Obvious slant in the article. I suppose it provides the proverbial "other side of the coin" to the type of article that Issa himself would write whilst coming to the opposite conclusion.

    I'm about halfway through, but there's really nothing new so far except an attempt to turn it into a "he said/she said". It's so slanted, one is left to wonder how much Holder et al (or his supporters) were involved in its genesis.
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2012
  5. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    41,788
    Likes Received:
    180
    Ratings:
    +364 / 11 / -27

    I believe the genesis was "Wide Receiver", pursued under a previous administrtion..

    There was a gunwalking tactic used in Minnesota in 1996...

    'Fast and Furious' gun sting had '96 precedent in Minnesota | StarTribune.com

  6. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2006
    Messages:
    20,531
    Likes Received:
    292
    Ratings:
    +563 / 7 / -9

    Nik, I definitely expect better from you. The Obama Administration is now at the genesis of articles in Fortune? Have you seen where his wall street "support" has gone over the last few years?

    Leaving aside the implication that Fortune can be counted on as a mouthpiece for a political point of view, unless maybe it's to run someone against Forbes in a proxy war for the magazine infighting or something -- this is not the magazine you'd choose for the job for a political hit-piece. Additionally, it kicks Obama in the nutsack about 1/3 of the way down, claiming that the administration walked way back from their original position ("nothing to see here") so as not to drag gun laws into this electoral cycle.

    At the very least, it raised the question of why there's no gun-sale database, so you don't have to come up with exotic schemes to try to prevent unlimited gun-running to criminal gangs (in the border context.)

    Finish the article, and I'll talk to you later.

    PFnV

    Gotta get out & get to work. Finish the article, and let me know how you think
  7. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    40,192
    Likes Received:
    196
    Ratings:
    +664 / 2 / -9

    Why didn't the Obama gang want to show the documents, what are they hiding?
  8. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact On the Roster

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    11,268
    Likes Received:
    169
    Ratings:
    +400 / 4 / -10

    exactly......why the pressing need to use executive privilege?

    libbies are going to play the 'politics' card, any yet, the big pink elephant in the room says otherwise.

    without a presentation of all documents, it is a cover up
  9. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    27,125
    Likes Received:
    219
    Ratings:
    +524 / 6 / -2

    Transparency. Anyone remember that word?

    To me, if guns were sold by our government, in a crime sting of sorts, and ended up being found at crime scenes inside our borders (one being used to kill a us border patrol agent), then questions need to be asked, and someone at the top has to lose their job. Is politics a part of this? Oh god yes. It's always a part of everything in DC. Still, at the same time, someone clearly either lied, or fudged the truth, over an operation that resulted in a US patrol agents death.
  10. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    15,675
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -1

    #75 Jersey

    First:
    This investigation by the Fortune journalist took months and began before this whole thing got a big head of steam. The motivation may have been political but there was no detectable bias as far as I could detect. Maybe I missed something. I believe it.

    Second:
    The the whole "Fast and Furious" investigation by Issa & Co. has been fueled by the NRA and other gun rights groups who have this wierd idea that Obama's actively seeking to strip the 2nd Ammendment, and if they haven't yet, they will. Well, they haven't yet. In fact, gun rights have been expanded under Obama, just not enought for the NRA, who would not be satisfied with the protection of the 2nd until every man, woman and child is packing at least one loaded gun without any background check or safety mechanism. That's their margin of error. The NRA employees in Congress are out to get Obama and couldn't be happier to do anything that a) undermines Obama and b) makes them look good to the Teabaggers and Ted Nugent and c) keeps the money coming in from the NRA and "Freedom PACS". Without the base of this conspiracy theory, this case goes nowhere.

    Third:
    THe Democrats look like a bunch of limp-dikt cream puffs again when they are under even the slightest pressure. They demonstrate that they- unlike the Republicans- are incapable of making a stand and protecting their President when he's in trouble. We saw it during Clinton and we're seeing it again. The Republicans do the reverse, which is why we have seen a general drift to the right in this country. Bush goes and sends over 4000 Americans to their deaths for no reason and the Dems fall in line when everyone knew it was a bunch of bulls#!t because of political expedience. Banks need to be dismantled and Wall Street pulls off the biggest heist in history, and they do nothing. In fact, they do the opposite of nothing. They are undisciplined whores and will deservedly be run over in the next general election because they fail to circle the wagons and make a stand.
  11. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    15,675
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -1

    #75 Jersey

    For some reason I can't help think of Donald Rumsfeld when I read this post. Top level accountability, huh? I agree.
  12. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,867
    Likes Received:
    108
    Ratings:
    +239 / 8 / -13

    This IRS agent didn't have access to the document s the committee wants to determine if Holder lied about his and the WH knowledge of this operation. It is a fact that Holder and the DoJ has already had to retract 2 statements made under oath about their knowledge of F & F.
  13. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    40,192
    Likes Received:
    196
    Ratings:
    +664 / 2 / -9

  14. JackBauer

    JackBauer On the Roster

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2005
    Messages:
    16,096
    Likes Received:
    279
    Ratings:
    +650 / 6 / -18

    Except that Issa has already said he doesn't believe that to be the case. Underscoring, once again, what a joke and fraud Issa and his "investigation" really is.
  15. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    27,125
    Likes Received:
    219
    Ratings:
    +524 / 6 / -2

    One thing I remember about Donald Rumsfeld is how early on he talked about how he wanted us to have a smaller, more mobile, highly advanced, rapid force military. I thought he was so right. Then they go and invade and occupy a country which required more or less the opposite. Smart man.





    magenta = sarcasm
  16. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,867
    Likes Received:
    108
    Ratings:
    +239 / 8 / -13

    So why have the program at all.

    They have already lied twice to the committee how many more lies are being hidden?
  17. JackBauer

    JackBauer On the Roster

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2005
    Messages:
    16,096
    Likes Received:
    279
    Ratings:
    +650 / 6 / -18

    If you or Issa believe Holder lied, they are free to bring perjury charges against him. Why haven't they?
  18. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    15,675
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -1

    #75 Jersey

    Because they know things already that they wouln't tell us about the investigation, so that would mean they are lyiong and would, therefor, have to charge themselves with purjury, which would be awkward.
  19. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,867
    Likes Received:
    108
    Ratings:
    +239 / 8 / -13


    Obama lied about Obamacare saying it wasn't a tax he lies everyday, why do you love him?
  20. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    15,675
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -1

    #75 Jersey

    I don't love him. I didn't vote for him. I just don't think every single thing he does is the end of humanity like you and your friends in the Tea Party. Anyone but Obama, and if you like anything about him you LOVE him. That stupid crap sounds like a 10 year-old (apologies to 10 year-olds). Grow up.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>