Discussion in 'Visiting Locker Room' started by AndyJohnson, Jan 21, 2008.
Cant believe Im the first to post this.
Tom Coughlin's face is made of glass.
(my first mog comment!)
Without the grittest teammate ever in Rivers and Chambers and Gates making an amazing passing game, LT wouldn't get such a high YPC.
No way! He's always on the field except when he's injured!
It's amazing when it's somebody else's guy, it's "whew. Good thing he got hurt and he's on the bench..."
When it's our guy, it's "If that p u s s y would hurry up and HEAL already you couldn't MAKE that excuse"
this is the second thread you created where you were hating on Charger players. Not sure what you're trying to do but first you say "Rivers shouldn't be looked at as heroic" then you say "LT is made of glass". This is hating 101 and it's sore winning. We were banged up bro, you weren't. Take the win with class and move on to the Superbowl.
NOTA BENE it is the Pats Fans board, it is what we do.. go to the Chargers Bored and do your thing here, it is a free country.
Roosevelt Colvin and Sammy Morris weren't playing yesterday, were they?
Hey man, sorry, but this is a patriots-joke thread. You weren't here for our Maroney-bashing phase earlier.
In short, some vocal minorities thought that all of our recent draftees (CJ, Maroney) were made of glass because they were injured all the time. It's not charger-hate.
Yeah but its a very classy glass.
Check it out.. Chargers fans still in the house.
Actually as I recall Dojo was fairly cool during the runup and after the game. Great to have you here, dude... but if you're gonna be a regular, you might need to grow a thick skin.
On the bright side... when Junior finally gets his ring, he'll believe in his heart that he is always a Charger, except a special different kind of Charger, one with a SB ring.
I just finished watching the game and I think people that are questioning LT's toughness aren't thinking this thing through. You think that because both LT and Rivers were doubtful, and because Rivers played through the pain, then LT is a whimp and doesn't have heart?
Rivers is a quarterback. The most important part of his body in order to be successful at his position is his throwing arm. Does he need his legs? Absolutely. Scrambling and moving the pocket is part of his job. But he doesn't need to be fast at his position. He can limp around, as he did yesterday and still be effective. Can he play with an injured throwing arm? Unlikely.
LT is a running back. The most important part of his body in order to be successful at his position are his legs. Does he need his arms? Absolutely. To stiff arm and hold on to the ball. But he can't be effective if he doesn't have healthy legs. Speed and power are the most important things for a good RB, which are influenced by the health of the knees.
Nance said yesterday during the broadcast that LT said he was 90%. That extra 10% is what makes him the best RB in the league. Without that 10%, he's above average but still far from his normal self.
MOST TELLING SIGN: 2nd Drive of the game for the Chargers. 3 & 5 around the Patriots 40 yd line. Harrison blitzes. LT goes to pick him up. Harrison does a spin move. LT has NO LATERAL MOVEMENT to slow Harrison down. Harrison forces an errant pass.
Michael Turner is definitely an above-average RB. I believe that a healthy Turner was better than an injured LT. On the first play of the Chargers' 3rd Drive, Turner ran for 11 yds. All 11 yds were after first contact. Michael Turner was definitely the better option at RB in such a physical playoff game.
If LT played hurt, he would be hurting his team. I think that the coaching staff for the Chargers wanted their best 11 guys on the field on offense. Why wouldn't they put an injured-LT out there if he was still their best RB option? Probably because he wasn't.
On a side note in the SB the Pats play against Plexi Glass.
I think not!
Danny88 is made of glass!
NSA is made of glass!
PF1996 is made of glass!
HBM is made of glass!
AquaMoronForever is made of glass!
Marvin Harrison is made of glass!
On a side note, Peyton Manning is the greatest choke artist in the history of the NFL. Another one and done for NaPolian's Gomer!
Made of glass is an inside joke, and really has nothing to do with Tomlinson.
Saying Rivers isnt heroic is not hating. He played with an injury. That is normal, not heroic.
Norv addressed it in his post-game. According to him, it was a pain issue for LdT, who purportedly had no problems with it during practices. LdT, on the other hand, after claiming that he was 90% before the game, was claiming it was an MCL sprain after the game. Like it or not, there are only 2 options here. Either the Chargers are 'cheaters' who blatantly lied on the injury report, and should be fined and lose a 1st round pick, or LdT couldn't handle the pain.
....er, glass #2....
LdT couldn't handle the pain? Does that mean anyone that is injured should be expected to play to their normal standards, regardless of any pain?
Everyone lies on injury reports. You're just holding LT to a different standard.
The ultimate question is:
WERE THE CHARGERS BETTER WITH LaDAINIAN OR MICHAEL TURNER AT RB?
Based on the production of LT in his limited time, Turner was the right choice. That doesn't mean that LT doesn't have heart. It's what was best for the team.
"LT tried to go, and he just couldn't go," Turner said. At one point, it was reported that he had "soreness" in his knee and "could return," and a sideline report called the former MVP's being on the sideline a coach's decision. But after the game, Turner defended Tomlinson by saying: "The guy was not able to go. The doctors and trainers said he couldn't go."
Tomlinson hyperextended his left knee early in last week's upset of the Colts, but after an MRI, he practiced Thursday and Friday and was not included in Friday's injury report. But when he caught a swing pass from Rivers for 1 yard on the second possession, he said he sensed he had lost his explosiveness and felt "helpless." Tomlinson also said he tweaked the knee on his 3-yard run to open the game and that he has a sprained MCL.
"From getting it reinjured the first play, I just knew I didn't have it," he said. "I'm kind of at a loss for words."
But you're still right. You know LT's body than he does or the doctors. Based on your logic, when Tom Brady left the 2001 AFC Championship Game in Pittsburgh with a high ankle sprain, he showed he didn't have heart and that he couldn't handle the pain, right?
Well, there's something more nefarious to consider...
What if he is made of glass, but basically everybody should be?
I mean, you can give a guy a pain shot and/or anti-inflammatory and send his happy butt back on the field, right? And they pretty much do this most of the time, from what I understand.
What if he valued his long-term viability enough to say "screw that. Pain is there for a reason. If it hurts that much I shouldn't be on the field."
Well I have a hard time condemning that... the only problem is, the rest of the league will pretty much take the shot and play.
I think this might be something like the dilemma you saw playing on Turner's face when asked (repeatedly) about Tomlinson. Maybe the grown, not-insane man agrees with LT, but then, the football coach knows other guys would've done whatever it took.
I'm not coming down hard one way or another. If the scenario is something like I described, you guys tell me what the "answer" is.
LdT WASN'T ON THE INJURY REPORT. HE PRACTICED WITHOUT RESTRICTIONS ON BOTH THURSDAY AND FRIDAY.
I hope the use of capital letters helps you to actually read the words. Not listing him on the report is far different from listing him as questionable when he's probable, etc... Either the Chargers were 'cheating' or LdT couldn't man it up and should never look Rivers or Gates in the face again.
None of us really know the answer. I disagree though that LT should be defended by saying you were better without him, as if to imply some grandiose benevolence in him begging out. We do not know if he asked out or was benched. IMO, if he could play the first 2 series, he could have tried to get back out there again. I find it hard to believe Turner would tell him he cannot play another snap.
If what you are implying were correct, that Tomlinson for the good of the team decided to not play because he was less than 100%, why did he act like a child on the sidelines and not act like a teammtate supporting the other players?
First of all, I'm a Pats fan, not a Chargers fan. Read my last post that has the article from Yahoo. His post game comments said he reinjured his knee on the first play of the game. "IMO, if he could play the first 2 series, he could have tried to get back out there again."??? What would have satisfied you? Play a whole half and then realize that a 100% Michael Turned was the best option? Fortunately, I have the entire Chargers coaching staff of my side of this argument, including LT.
They wanted what was best for their team in order to win. If that was benching LT, then that was the move to make.
Second, Tomlinson not playing for the good of the team and how he acted on the sidelines are in no way related. Were you expecting him to act like a cheerleader? This reminds me of Bobby Knight's comment about a "game face". How is he supposed to act? Did he not seem enough in to the game to make you think that he wanted to win? Were you watching him the whole game?
So a team that lied about the injury report wouldn't later lie about why LdT was sitting his ass on the bench instead of playing football?
Hey, did you know that the word gullible is not in the dictionary?
Where did the Chargers lie about their injury report? L.T. wasn't listed on Friday. He said he reinjured his knee on the first play of the game. You have no way to prove otherwise. Considering he completed a full practice on Friday, why wouldn't he be able to go on Sunday?....UNLESS HE GOT HURT ON THE FIRST PLAY OF THE GAME LIKE HE SAID!!!
You're basing your argument on speculation. I'm basing it on the facts surrounding the issue. There are no holes in the Chargers story. You can accuse them of lying about their injury report, but it's strictly speculative.
The original argument was that L.T. didn't have heart for not playing. My point was that L.T. wasn't the best option for the Chargers to put them in the best position to win the game. Therefore, him not playing doesn't mean he doesn't have heart or can't suck up the pain.
Should everyone be expected to play regardless of injury? or do they need to meet your standards before they can sit out?
Cleary LT is made out of glass and cannot be counted on. The Chargers need to use their #1 pick on a RB. What good is Tomlinson if he can't carry the team in the big games?
To the uninitiated and/or dim Charger fans:
"Made of glass" is a sarcastic reference that has to do with Maroney-haters on this board. We don't actually think LT is made of glass, brittle, a *****, etc... It was a joke. Relax.
I can't argue this any more. We'll agree to disagree.
But saying that the Chargers need to use their #1 pick on a RB because of ONE GAME! How quickly you forget last season when the league MVP (L.T.) nearly single-handedly beat the Patriots in the AFC Divisional Playoffs. Tomlinson ran for 123 yards and two scores, and caught two passes for 64 yards. I'd classify that as "carrying his team in the big game"?
You just don't understand the game. Go put on your pink hat and pink Brady jersey, just don't pollute these message boards.
You missed the inside joke. I think you are a Chargers fan incognito, btw. If you visited here at times other than when we played the Chargers, you'd know what these posts are about. We'd have a long maroney thread every other day that contained these general themes.
Hmmm... now you're calling conflicting comments "facts" as if they support you. Let me start with a simple fact:
"Hyperextended knee" is NOT a synonymous term for "sprained MCL"
As for the pain thing, I know quite a bit about playing through it. Perhaps you don't. People have different thresholds. In fact, the same person will have different thresholds depending upon circumstances. I don't blame players for that, but I do blame a player for pussing out in a game of that magnitude after just a couple of runs, because sometimes the pain gets easier to deal with when you play through it a bit. LdT attempted a whopping 2 runs and one catch.
Lastly, you're kidding yourself if you think that the best player on the Chargers couldn't have successfully have lobbied his coach to give him another run or two. After all, LdT is the best option for the Chargers, not Turner.
OK, Al Bundy. You played football at Polk High so that qualifies you to comment on LT's health status and threshold for pain. I'll take your word for it.
And you're also right that LT should have lobbied his coach for more playing time, even if Michael Turner was the better option for the team. Seeing how LT ran on his two carries and one reception, he certainly didn't move any piles like Michael Turner did. But again, the big concern for the Chargers coaches was 'How is LT going to be portrayed after the game?', right? It had nothing to do with the best interest of the team.
At this point, I can't argue with ignorance and incompetence. Despite having no evidence other than speculation to support your claim, I concede because in the end, any non-biased football fan that reads this thread knows what the right move was.
From the San Diego Union Tribune:
Whatever the speculation was on TV or the lie the Chargers announced to the media at Gillette Stadium, here's the bottom line from LaDainian Tomlinson:
"It's obvious that I couldn't play. If I could have played, I would have been in there.''
Tomlinson, who suffered a hyperextended left knee in last week's win over Indianapolis, got hit on the same knee on the first play of the AFC Championship Game and said he sprained the medial collateral ligament. The Chargers announced he could have returned to the game, but Tomlinson said that wasn't the case. Coach Norv Turner confirmed that after the game.
"It was just the impact of getting hit that first play, right on it,'' Tomlinson said. "I thought that would be the test, taking a hit on it. I don't know how I get direct hits on it ... it's just been two bad weeks for me. I usually don't take shots like that. It just happened.''
Tomlinson was in for a total of four plays -- two carries, a reception and one play where he stayed into block. He did not play after the Chargers' second series.
"LT tried to go and he just couldn't go,'' Turner said. "The pain in the knee, what he felt, he couldn't push off it and he couldn't go. ... The doctors and trainers said he couldn't go.''
Meanwhile, QB Philip Rivers confirmed he has a partially torn anterior cruciate ligament in his right knee in addition to a sprained MCL. Rivers said he "probably'' would need surgery.
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