Tomase's Roster Thoughts

[PatsSteve1]

http://patriots.bostonherald.com/patriots/view.bg?articleid=1019317

Another media guy seeming to count Reche out.

 

[JDSal45]

http://patriots.bostonherald.com/patriots/view.bg?articleid=1019317

Another media guy seeming to count Reche out.

Where the hell did Tomase get this?

"Rivers, on the other hand, has experience as a blocker, filling the role for five years between the Giants and Jaguars. He caught a career-high 24 passes for the Jags last year, but blocking is the 6-foot-4, 250-pounder’s forte, which should give him an edge over Mills"

First of all, Rivers has never played for the Jaguars. So he certainly didn't catch 24 passes for them last year. Secondly, Rivers was out of the league after camp last year except for ten days he spent with the Saints in Decemeber (not playing in any games). So he didn't catch 24 passes for anyone last year.

In short, once again a media member has not done his homework.

J D Sal

 

[Seymour93]

Where the hell did Tomase get this?

"Rivers, on the other hand, has experience as a blocker, filling the role for five years between the Giants and Jaguars. He caught a career-high 24 passes for the Jags last year, but blocking is the 6-foot-4, 250-pounder’s forte, which should give him an edge over Mills"

First of all, Rivers has never played for the Jaguars. So he certainly didn't catch 24 passes for them last year. Secondly, Rivers was out of the league after camp last year except for ten days he spent with the Saints in Decemeber (not playing in any games). So he didn't catch 24 passes for anyone last year.

In short, once again a media member has not done his homework.

J D Sal

I think Tomase got Rivers confused with fellow TE Brian Jones. Brian Jones spent his first two seasons in the league with the Jaguars. Rivers on the other hand caught 24 passes, however it wasn't last season, it was the season before last with the Texans. So basically Tomase got his lame AFC South teams mixed up and was off by a year with one stat.

Tomase's point, though, about #3 TE is spot on. Rivers didn't miss a beat against Carolina on Friday night. He was in with the 1st team offense and did most of the blocking you'd see from the likes of Daniel Graham and Kyle Brady. Mills, meanwhile, did not see a snap until the second half.

 

[PatsSteve1]

According to this, Rivers caught 24 with the Texans last year and was with the Giants before that:

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/playerstats.asp?id=5784&Submit=Go

 

[patsox23]

http://patriots.bostonherald.com/patriots/view.bg?articleid=1019317

Another media guy seeming to count Reche out.

Yes. Another guy who has been watching practice and the games, and has come to the same conclusion a lot of us have: Caldwell is VERY likely on the outs at WR. Here's one of the more obvious - but somehow vociferously ignored - aspects of proof:

"it’s hard to miss that Caldwell has spent the preseason working with the second team"

And yet somehow there's a cadre of posters here, who keep running down the possibility of Washington make the team over Caldwell because Caldwell, they argue, deserves to make the 53 based on "what he did last year." (Ahem.) Meanwhile, after a slow start, KW has worked hard, improved, been around the ball on KR's and PR's, made a few plays in the passing game, and has gotten the attention of the Pats' coaching staff, and most posters here.

It amazes me that so many seem to dismiss the fact that BILL BELICHICK and his coaches are STARTING Kelley Washington and have Caldwell - a guy I defended all last year, and whom I still like - running with the 2's. The writing's on the wall, fellas. Join us here in the light.

 

[Seymour93]

According to this, Rivers caught 24 with the Texans last year and was with the Giants before that:

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/playerstats.asp?id=5784&Submit=Go

That was back in 2005. Last season Rivers was signed by the Raiders during the offseason but was a TC cut, then New Orleans signed him in December but they released him a week later.

http://www.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=playerbio&bio=32573

 

[PATRIOT64]

Caldwell will likely be cut - Bug eyes needs to find a new team,maybe the Titans grab him or the Vikings

Moss,Stallworth,Welker,Washington,Gaffney are the total final WR Corps

You heard it here first

 

[Fencer]

I don't think the fact that Caldwell had been running with the second team makes it obvious he'll be cut. All that makes obvious is that Washington is being given every chance to supplant him. Whether Washington succeeded is based on evaluations of his play and practices.

Anyhow, the closest thing to a surprise or contrarian viewpoint in Tomase's article, I think, was his belief that Mitchell not only will make the team, but is a near-lock.

And the closest thing to an astute comment was his observation that if Seymour starts out the year on PUP, it opens a spot for Rashad Moore, given that Mike Wright and LeKevin Smith swing between DE and DT.

Well, another interesting comment was that he seems to feel Smith has pretty completely transitioned to DE, like so many other rookie Pat NTs before him.

 

[Kdo5]

Caldwell will likely be cut - Bug eyes needs to find a new team,maybe the Titans grab him or the Vikings

Moss,Stallworth,Welker,Washington,Gaffney are the total final WR Corps

You heard it here first

Nice Caldwell stepped up last year and his catches GOT us to the AFCCG and some Pats fans treat him like garbage. Pretty much the Boston media treated him like sh*t all year round.

 

[Julius]

With Gaffney,Brown, being hurt Caldwell is the most experienced WR in the Pats system. This has to count for something. I still don't trust Stallworth to make the correct adjustment if there is a blitz or something. If Gaffney is healthy then yes Caldwell is probably gone.

 

[Water Boy]

Nice Caldwell stepped up last year and his catches GOT us to the AFCCG and some Pats fans treat him like garbage. Pretty much the Boston media treated him like sh*t all year round.

I trust whatever decision BB makes, but I think Caldwell does bring some value to the team. The reports in the preseason are that Caldwell has been very solid blocking downfield.

 

[captain stone]

Yes. Another guy who has been watching practice and the games, and has come to the same conclusion a lot of us have: Caldwell is VERY likely on the outs at WR. Here's one of the more obvious - but somehow vociferously ignored - aspects of proof:

"it’s hard to miss that Caldwell has spent the preseason working with the second team"

And yet somehow there's a cadre of posters here, who keep running down the possibility of Washington make the team over Caldwell because Caldwell, they argue, deserves to make the 53 based on "what he did last year." (Ahem.) Meanwhile, after a slow start, KW has worked hard, improved, been around the ball on KR's and PR's, made a few plays in the passing game, and has gotten the attention of the Pats' coaching staff, and most posters here.

It amazes me that so many seem to dismiss the fact that BILL BELICHICK and his coaches are STARTING Kelley Washington and have Caldwell - a guy I defended all last year, and whom I still like - running with the 2's. The writing's on the wall, fellas. Join us here in the light.

If both Caldwell and Washington were first-year players with the NEP, then I might agree that Washington has the upper hand.

However, do we really want to start the season with just one WR (Gaffney) who has game experience with TB? Remember, this was the case last year (Troy Brown) as well.

Keep in mind, too, that Gaffney's return for Opening Day is by no means a sure thing.

And who knows, maybe Washington is being showcased, whereas BB and TB know what Caldwell can do.

Perhaps TB himself will make the final call, and choose familiarity over potential.

It is warm here in the light, but I can't stay...not yet.

 

[patchick]

I've felt from the start that Caldwell's spot is safe. But if the Patriots decided that Washington had progressed so far so fast that they didn't need the security blanket of a Pats-experienced WR, that could only be considered a good thing.

(Either way, they'd be cutting a guy who would have been a certain starter last year! Ahhh.)

 

[MetalBleachers]

If both Caldwell and Washington were first-year players with the NEP, then I might agree that Washington has the upper hand.

However, do we really want to start the season with just one WR (Gaffney) who has game experience with TB? Remember, this was the case last year (Troy Brown) as well.

Keep in mind, too, that Gaffney's return for Opening Day is by no means a sure thing.

And who knows, maybe Washington is being showcased, whereas BB and TB know what Caldwell can do.

Perhaps TB himself will make the final call, and choose familiarity over potential.

It is warm here in the light, but I can't stay...not yet.

I'm with you. Washington's being "around the ball" on ST has resulted in exactly one tackle, equal to Gostkowski and one fewer than - can you believe it? - Reche Caldwell.

http://www.nfl.com/teams/newenglandpatriots/statistics?team=NE

 

[mgteich]

So you don't trust Stallworth to make adjustments! That won't keep him from starting.

In the end, the issue is who will start and be the #2 while Moss is recuperating. Caldwell and Washington are the nominations. I see to be the only one who would keep them both and cut Gaffney. After all, jackson an/or Brown will be available at mid-season.

With Gaffney,Brown, being hurt Caldwell is the most experienced WR in the Pats system. This has to count for something. I still don't trust Stallworth to make the correct adjustment if there is a blitz or something. If Gaffney is healthy then yes Caldwell is probably gone.

 

[Rob0729]

The fact of the matter is that Belichick did some new wrinkles to the depth chart on Friday night. Prior to Friday, Washington was the slot WR in the second unit with Caldwell being one of the outside WRs. Other changes I saw on Friday was that Mike Richardson was higher than Merriweather playing the nickel/slot. Does that mean Richardson has overtaken Merriweather on the depth chart for the regular season.

I have a potential theory about Washington starting that may explain him moving ahead of Caldwell on the depth chart. Primarily for the first two drives, the Pats ran the ball almost exclusively. Belichick knows Caldwell is a good run blocker. Washington has always had that as a negative. Belichick could have been auditioning Washington's run blocking skills.

It is safe to say that Belichick did approach this game differently than most coaches approach the third preseason game. He started the offense not to show they can put together a successful drive like they would in a regular season, but to get the rust off Maroney. He might have approached this game as a chance to check out a few other players too.

 

[JDSal45]

I think Tomase got Rivers confused with fellow TE Brian Jones. Brian Jones spent his first two seasons in the league with the Jaguars. Rivers on the other hand caught 24 passes, however it wasn't last season, it was the season before last with the Texans. So basically Tomase got his lame AFC South teams mixed up and was off by a year with one stat.

Exactly. Something you shouldn't do it if you're a major newspaper reporter. If he can't even get basic, extremely basic facts right about the team you're reporting on and its players, why should we even pay ten seconds of attention to his opinions? I wouldn't, not for someone so sloppy at their job.

J D Sal

 

[JDSal45]

According to this, Rivers caught 24 with the Texans last year and was with the Giants before that:

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/playerstats.asp?id=5784&Submit=Go

No, that was in 2005. He didn't play any games "last year"

J D Sal

 

[cstjohn17]

Interesting I didn't know that Richardson had a cast on, IMO this takes him out of the mix for the 53 man roster.

"Rookie Mike Richardson had at least worked himself into the conversation with a solid preseason, but he was spotted in a cast and sling after Friday’s game and could end up on the practice squad or injured reserve."

Most of his analysis is accurate, I could make a case that both Rivers (or some other JAG) make the roster along with Mills but as with all of these predications the first 48 or so are pretty solid, the final few spots are the only debate. Again, high class problems to have when we are discussing:
- 3rd TE (Rivers or Mills) with a very good player (Thomas) to come off PUP (lost in all this was Thomas was reported to be running with a trainer on the field before Friday's game, this is good news)
- 5th or 6th WR (Caldwell really seems like he is on the outs when he didn't get any reps with the #1 offense, Gaffney his injury may prove to be costly otherwise he makes the team and everyone's favorite Kelly 'ok a a few things not really good at any' Washington
- 7th and 7th DL - I think Smith has pretty much wrapped it up, Moore looekd ok as a backup NT but is so one dimensional that it seems like a wasted roster spot. Maybe Moore doesn't get picked up and ends up on our top secret 'shadow' roster
- 9th or 10th defensive back - Welsey, Mitchell, Baker, James - take your pick
OL - 8th or 9th positions may shift if Hoch or Yates are too banged up

As a side note I wish Reiss, Thomase, etc. would follow mgteich's lead and present their picks grouped by offense, defense and sorted by position. It is much easier to follow than the formats presented in the papers.
Example - http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showpost.php?p=485357&postcount=1

 

[letekro]

Yes. Another guy who has been watching practice and the games, and has come to the same conclusion a lot of us have: Caldwell is VERY likely on the outs at WR. Here's one of the more obvious - but somehow vociferously ignored - aspects of proof:

"it’s hard to miss that Caldwell has spent the preseason working with the second team"

And yet somehow there's a cadre of posters here, who keep running down the possibility of Washington make the team over Caldwell because Caldwell, they argue, deserves to make the 53 based on "what he did last year." (Ahem.) Meanwhile, after a slow start, KW has worked hard, improved, been around the ball on KR's and PR's, made a few plays in the passing game, and has gotten the attention of the Pats' coaching staff, and most posters here.

It amazes me that so many seem to dismiss the fact that BILL BELICHICK and his coaches are STARTING Kelley Washington and have Caldwell - a guy I defended all last year, and whom I still like - running with the 2's. The writing's on the wall, fellas. Join us here in the light.

Duly noted. But it is really possible to "vociferously ignore" something?