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Tomase take on 5 things Pats need to do before playoffs

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PatsRI, Oct 16, 2006.

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  1. PatsRI

    PatsRI PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    http://patriots.bostonherald.com/patriots/view.bg?articleid=162524&format=&page=1

    Nothing earth shattering here but a good read:

    "For the Patriots not to make the playoffs, they have to lose the AFC East. That means finishing behind the Jets, Bills or Dolphins.
    Chew on that for a second. If those teams were dwarfs their names would be Crappy, Inepty, and Daunte Culpepper. Two of them jousted yesterday, one week after collectively losing 81-7. We’ll be welcoming Kim Jong-il as our munificent overlord before anyone in that trio surpasses the Pats, who took a two-game lead into the bye."
  2. mosi

    mosi Rookie

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    Good read except for the knock on Dillion. Cory is running almost as good as he did in 2004. His reps are down, which is good as it should keep him fresh come Jan.

    In my opinion, the key to this team is Cory Dillion. L.M is nice, but he a big play guy. Cory is the guy that will get 4-6 yards a pop and give you those nice 5-10 minute drives that win you playoff games.
  3. Willie55

    Willie55 Rookie

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    Unless I missed a kick, didn't the one that he miss, go just wide right. I wouldn't characterize it as a Vandershank.
  4. sieglo

    sieglo Rookie

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    Tomase' balllicking of Vinatieri is absurd. Vinatieri never missed a clutch kick in the playoffs? I can think of a certain Superbowl where he shanked TWO!
  5. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    Looks like Tomase is supporting me in my quasi-agreement with NEM regarding McDaniels' playcalling, though I keep saying that our personnel deserves some of the blame too.

    Everyone's been blasting anyone as anti-Patriotic for suggesting that the team's play and playcalling won't cut it come January but here we have some corroboration of that.
  6. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No it was that far right. He is right about the kid kicker not yet facing his toughest kicking situations.

    But that said, if he took the time to glance at the schedule beyond crappy and inepty and Daunte Culpepper he would see that it would take more than a rookie kicker struggling for this team to end up 11-5 let alone 10-6.

    Getting Jackson on the field and consistently productive, getting the WR's comfortable as a unit, staying healthy on both sides of the ball and playing fundamentally sound across the board on a consistent basis and maintaining focus are the things the Patriots have to concentrate on for the next 11 weeks. If they do that the record will likely get them a playoff bye as well as HFA to start. HFA throughout will be tough with the early loss to Denver, but Denver isn't exactly lighting up the league and after the way they played against Oakland at home last night they could yet fall victim to complacency completing an even easier schedule.
  7. zoostation

    zoostation Rookie

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    Come on. As much as I dislike him for leaving, let's face it...the guy made them when they counted.
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2006
  8. brady et al fan

    brady et al fan Rookie

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    I agree with everything Tomase has to say. The argument is worn out at this point but as he says, the Pats never blew anyone out in the championship runs and counted on AV to make the big kick under the worst and most pressure filled situations imaginable. Don't minimize how valuable he was in all of those years. I remain very concerned about the kid we have now when the game is on the line.

    I'm also concerned about our lack of playmakers on defense. A few turnovers last game was nice but lets face it, we don't have a Ty Law and Rodney is not the Rodney of old. Nor is Bruschi the Bruschi of old and who is our Willie McG?
  9. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think you're reading into things what you need to believe you see as corroboration to rationalize even quasi-agreeing with NEM, as well you should. :bricks:

    Tomase acknowledged the critics, he didn't validate the criticism. In fact he gave ample reason why it isn't really justified. The offense has been limited due to inability to execute much of the playbook or even select portions of it on a consistent basis. Much of that relates to the loss of the #1 and #2 and #3 and #'s 5 through whatever WR options of the last 3 years, coupled with their inability to get Jackson, their lone serious deep threat, or Gabriel on the field or even practicing consistently due to health and learning curve issues. The only consistently productive WR on the roster through week 5 has 6 years in the system and 5 with Brady, but he was the 4th option last season at age 35 and he is temporarily back to splitting time on defense because of injuries in the still struggling secondary. Dillon has been hampered just enough by a nagging injury to throw a monkey wrench into a couple of game plans.

    Will this game planning and playcalling fly in January - I don't believe anyone is contending it will. But this isn't January, it's October and the season and the team and this offense full of new players is still evolving. NEM has no patience for or appreciation of the process. Never has through three championships in 5 seasons, and likely never will. He pronounces them the bestest ever every July, and then rails against whomever the OC is when they don't live up to his irrational expectations from the first pre season game on. You remember the pre season don't you Joe? That was where he wailed for BB to start the backup QB instead of Brady so he could get a lot more meaningful reps with the first team for evaluation purposes....:rolleyes:
  10. JR4

    JR4 In the Starting Line-up PatsFans.com Supporter

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    One BIG thing they need to do ( don't know that they will )

    PROVE that this OLINE can block well enough against good run defenses to
    get even close to 4 yds/carry.

    They will meet these kinds of teams in the playoffs. This OLine can do
    great against decent run defenses. I want to see them run well against a
    good run defense.

    Not much to test them in the schedule that's left but they have some
    decent run D's yet to play.

    Vikes, Lions and Jags are allowing 3.5yd/carry or less.

    These teams haven't played all top run offenses but they they have
    each played some teams that can run.

    You would think Chicago but as of now they are allowing 3.9 yds/carry
    and they haven't faced a top 15 running game yet.

    Jacksonville should be a good indicator - they played 3 top 10 running
    games so far and allowing only 3.5yds/carry.

    PATs running game is not as good as some think. At 3.9/yd per carry
    it ranks about middle of the road. There needs to be improvemnet here
    and I think it has to do with the OLine ... I just hope it is just more
    playing time together is what they need.

    By the time they face Jacksonville it should be what it will be.
    But by that time one or both teams my have clinched a playoff berth
    so that may not even be a test.
  11. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    As I said, both playcalling and personnel is the issue - which is effectively what Tomase is saying by going out of his way to write about it.

    Surely you understand that these guys are reporters - they need to be balanced - but make their opinions known by choosing what to write about.

    Tomase is clearly concerned about playcalling and personnel, just in the same way he's clearly concerned about what Gostowski will do in the cold weather.
  12. The End Zone

    The End Zone Rookie

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    What? You have "corroboration" of that because John Tomase agreed with you. Excellent. Well my mom agrees with me that you're wrong. How's that? What do you want him to do send the great Troy Brown (whom I respect and admire more than ANY Patriot) on a double move. He's running the 40 at like 7.3 seconds right now. Reche Caldwell doesn't have the requisite speed. You want to run him on a reverse or somthing? I don't buy this argument at all. You do the best with what you have and try to keep the defense honest as best you can. He'll open the playbook a bit wider as Gabriel and Jackson absorb more of it. I also don't buy the argument that you're right becuase something you thought was echoed in the Herald. That's like saying "See I told you Tinkie Winkie is gay!" becuase Jerry Falwell said so. Perhaps that's a bit unfair to Tomase
  13. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Lets see...
    Right Tackle = Rookie = Learning Curve.
    Right Tackle + Right Guard = 5 regular season games + 4 preseason games = 9 games together.
    Left Tackle + Left Guard = 5 regular season games + 4 preseason + 2 05 regular season games + 4 05 preseason games = 15 games
    Center + Left Guard = 5 regular season games + limited preseason work + 7 05 regular season games + 4 05 preseason games = 16 games
    Verdict: the offensive line is still developing their chemistry FIVE games into the season. Please panic more slowly oh children of NEM's reasoning.

    WR Troy Brown + QB Tommy Brady = excellent chemistry.
    WR Reche Caldwell + QB Tommy Brady = solid baseline (note trust on critical downs).
    WR Doug Gabriel + QB Tommy Brady = 4 games of feeling out, improving development noted.
    WR Chad Jackson + QB Tommy Brady = rookie + limited by injury = it is what it is, and we won't know what that is much before next season.
    WR Jabar Gaffney + QB Tommy Brady = who dat?

    The O-line is the key to the offense, it's hard to complain about the pass protection and the run blocking is improving. This unit will be up to post-season standards at the right time - there's a history here you know.

    The WRs and Tommy are showing me signs of hope, take some downers and chill if you can't handle sausage making.
  14. Murphys95

    Murphys95 Rookie

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    Wow. The Patriots were notoriously unbalanced early on last season, passing on 60% of their plays in the first 5 games. This year the Patriots have an entirely new mindset - running on 52% of their plays. Balance? What is Tomase talking about? Is he referring to balance as in a 3-3 Patriots record after 6 games last year? This attack on the playcalling is shortsighted IMO.
  15. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    Wow! So everyone here really thinks that the way the team has been playing as of right now is good enough to win the Super Bowl????!!!!

    :eek:

    I'd always pegged Patriots fans as being able to see through their red, white and blue colored glasses.

    I had no idea suggesting that the team needs to improve from where we are currently would be met with such anger and denial.
  16. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    I think criticisms of McDaniel's playcalling go a little bit beyond how many running plays and how many passing plays the OC calls.

    Even if that were the case, one would need to look beyond the split of runs and passes to determine how effective the running game and passing game is.

    In the case of the passing game, I might be mistaken but I believe our completion rate is among the lowest in the AFC. The running game, thanks to Dillaroney, has been more effective, but has yet to prove it can dominate a team that is good against the run.

    Hence the criticisms of playcalling and personnel.
  17. psychoPat

    psychoPat Role Player PatsFans.com Supporter

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    In a few weeks Patrick Pass
    will be sending one of these lads
    to the unemployment office.
  18. Oswlek

    Oswlek Rookie

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    This is very much an oversimplification of the argument. At first I thought that you were just trying to be brief in your other posts on this point, but now it seems as if you might be setting up a strawman. No one has claimed that the Pats playcalling has been beyond reproach. Nearly every single person who has disagreed with NEM has also said that the playcalling needs to be more diverse.
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2006
  19. Murphys95

    Murphys95 Rookie

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    I think Brady's completion percentage is a fair point, and can make for an interesting discussion in and of itself. But we are watching a new offense evolve in New England, and the percentage of run-to-pass plays are a significant indicator of that. Tomase used the words "one-dimensional" and claimed the Patriots needed a more balanced offense. What's more balanced than a 52/48 ratio of run to pass? I think it's worthwhile to point that out in light of Tomase's comments.

    This 2006 offense is averaging a mere 1 point fewer per game than last season - yet it is vastly different in its makeup. I'm excited to see how this offense matures. Teams typically begin to forge their identity in October and November, so I expect growing pains.

    I'm sorry - for a team that is 4-1 (and seemingly improved over last season), I don't see the need to question the playcalling at this point. Besides, until I'm privy to the Patriots offensive game plan and what each play is designed to accomplish - I'm not going to pretend I know any better than Josh McDaniels. That's just my 2 cents.
  20. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    Again, I think you've just slightly misinterpreted the concerns of Tomase and others in their view of "unimaginative playcalling"... its not simply about how many times they put the ball in the air or on the ground. It's HOW they do it - hence his noting the 12 yard bungee cord, or, in terms of the misplayed routes, and the lowest in the NFL 53% completion rate.

    If run/pass balance were all we were talking about for "balance" it wouldn't matter if Brady had a 10% competion rate, as long as we were running it 50% of the time - obviously THAT would generate a high degree of criticism regardless of how often the ball were run, and THAT would firmly establish that the playcalling, personnel or both were seriously flawed. Thankfully its no where near that bad - but still the worst completion rate in the NFL.

    Ron Jaworski has similar comments in the Globe today

    http://www.boston.com/sports/footba...06/10/16/new_look_patriots_are_turning_heads/

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