Tomase: Seymour may be a while

[The Boston Patriot]

Dude, read the post you just quoted. Good Christ, you people. I even made it clear I was NOT comparing their production in a comprehensive way. I'm merely pointing out - I'd thought unnecessarily - that 3 TDs is not "nothing."

And I pointed out that 3 TD's is not 'something' I would be touting from the
highest treetops either. In fact it is pretty mediocre for a WR on this team.

 

[PatsFan37]

So let's just assume for a moment that Richard's out for another month. What would the impact be on the team? My biggest concern is that we're forced to overuse the rest of the line and they start to wear down and risk injuries themselves.

Another impact may be apparent as soon as Sunday (not that he would be available anyway) against a team with an offense that comes to life in the second half. One reason for the Dallas second-half surge is that their large and physical OL wears down their opponent's DL.

Having Seymour in the rotation keeps the team strong in the second half and prevents a team with a lead from grinding out the clock.

I agree with you on Tomase's record with injuries (and on gritting the teeth -- especially in that chat vis-a-vis spygate).

I agree with those who said Seymour is still a dominant DL and has been unlucky with injuries. He will be a force when he is back. There's a reason the Browns ran at Green last week.

 

[dhamz]

If Seymour is such a dog, why is it the Bradys, Bruschis, Harrisons, Vrabels, etc. of the team go out of their way to praise him all the time? In Rodney's first day back he was on Dale and Holley talking about how close he is to Seymour, how much he respects him, and how they had been leaning on each other while both struggling with wanting to be playing and not being on the field. Holley said he heard Rodney tell a grup of school kids the same thing a few days earlier in a private setting.

Are those the type of guys to praise another player who isn't dedicated to the team like so many are accusing Seymour of being?

 

[Seymour93]

Why does Seymour milking an injury make no sense?

Because unlike Jackson, Seymour has a reputation at stake.

 

[danny88]

And I pointed out that 3 TD's is not 'something' I would be touting from the
highest treetops either. In fact it is pretty mediocre for a WR on this team.

Thats what im sayin :rocker:

 

[danny88]

Because unlike Jackson, Seymour has a reputation at stake.

I know but what does he care if everyone thinks he is to injured to play. The homers are not going to question big Sey.

 

[jays52]

Seymour can still play ball, and still plays ball well. Watch the way he plays...he still keeps his hips low, engages with his hands, is aware of the quarterback (ie; bats down balls) routinely handles the doubleteam. I think people who say that Sey is dogging it don't really understand the way the scheme and the whole game works. Note how well the linebackers to his side play in run situations and in the pass rush. It's because HE'S DOING HIS JOB AS A 2-GAP END!!!. There are many ways a player can be dominant, and with this scheme it's often subtle.

 

[The Boston Patriot]

Nobody? Nobody wants to talk about the potential significance of Seymour's absence rather than turning this into yet another Chad Jackson slugfest?

I'll try my best to be as inflammatory as possible since I am not now, nor ever
have been a Big Sey suckup. When he was good, he was very, very good.
He is not very, very good now for whatever reason. That is reality.

So, here goes:

I am concerned about Seymour. His performance has slipped precipitously on
the field. Whether that is due to injury, or attitude, or whatever, it is a huge
cause for concern. I have not seen any significant emphasis by an opponent on
containing him when he is on the field. The next time I see him in the backfield
of an opponent during a play I might not recognize him since it's been that long.
It is pretty much common knowledge that he is living off his past reputation.
Current performance (and availability) is pretty ordinary and there is no way he is
earning his big green. Thanks for the memories Sey, but you're just another
lineman these days, and an injured one at that!

 

[cstjohn17]

3...2...1... we should trade Seymour. I can hear it now, look at his stats, he's not even in the top of the best linemen. Yada, yada, yada. Because he's not on the field, and there is speculation that he will not be activated after week 6, he becomes a malcontent or lazy. Hey why not, since Asante is making picks someone has to be the whipping boy.

I will bite, initially I said they should trade him after the season for two number 1 picks. More of a sell high approach than anything else. This is not feasible the way his contract is structured.

Personally I think he is great, I can't wait to see the big 3 on the field at the same time (Warren, Wilfork, Seymour). With our depth we should be able to keep a good rotation going all season long. When he comes back our run defense will get even better which by extension will help the pass defense.

 

[danny88]

I'll try my best to be as inflammatory as possible since I am not now, nor ever
have been a Big Sey suckup. When he was good, he was very, very good.
He is not very, very good now for whatever reason. That is reality.

So, here goes:

I am concerned about Seymour. His performance has slipped precipitously on
the field. Whether that is due to injury, or attitude, or whatever, it is a huge
cause for concern. I have not seen any significant emphasis by an opponent on
containing him when he is on the field. The next time I see him in the backfield
of an opponent during a play I might not recognize him since it's been that long.
It is pretty much common knowledge that he is living off his past reputation.
Current performance (and availability) is pretty ordinary and there is no way he is
earning his big green. Thanks for the memories Sey, but you're just another
lineman these days, and an injured one at that!

This post says it all.

 

[dtbrks]

I thought in Rees's notebook that he mentioned both players "ramping up", Seymour and Brown

Return engagement
Belichick, in an interview yesterday on Sirius NFL Radio, said defensive end Richard Seymour and wide receiver Troy Brown, both of whom are on the physically unable to perform list, have stepped up their work in hopes of a return to action.

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2007/10/12/on_the_job_training_going_well/

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The sad truth in all this is while Richard is a rare talent of tremendous value in this system when healthy, he isn't durable and he doesn't rebound quickly from injury and he doesn't play nearly as well through injury as some players can and do. I think they love what he brings on the field when he brings it. I think they are a little less enamored of his leadership and locker room value than they had hoped to be.

I think that is why they compromised with him both on his rookie deal and his extension, which only added 3 years at top DE compensation and could be rendered cap friendly when rolled onto the end of that rookie deal. And I think he accepted that compromise because in 2006 he had his own injury related concerns about his potential value as a FA entering the 2007 season or beyond.

I think long term the jury is out on Seymour finishing his career here or entering the HOF solely for that reason. If he returns after week 10 he will have missed 19 games, or an entire championship season in his first 7 years in the league. I don't think he's milking his injury, I just think he is what he is. I do think he was reluctant to take chances prior to the extension. I think he was willing to once it was in hand, which is why he played through some injuries last season, but has been unable to this season because his body did not respond well to surgical efforts to finally correct a knee condition that likely pre existed the extension. I'm not sure he will age out well at his position.

Of course as they say opinions are like *******s, we all have them. Including patsox23 who likes to liberally sprinkle his with personal insults because anyone whose opinion differs from his, painstakingly formed from 3,000 miles away with selective assistance from mediots whose insight he has determined to be valid, is obviously a moron.... But that's just MHO.

 

[letekro]

Kind of the like the excuses you make for Chad Jackson and Maroney? You call me negative , yet all you do is defend every player on the team no matter the circumstance.

It could never be a patriot would maybe milk and injury! No never!

Are you serious???? What excuses? Torn ACL, pulled groin, shoulder surgery - those are excuses??? Hah, you're a joke.

 

[captain stone]

The sad truth in all this is while Richard is a rare talent of tremendous value in this system when healthy, he isn't durable and he doesn't rebound quickly from injury and he doesn't play nearly as well through injury as some players can and do. I think they love what he brings on the field when he brings it. I think they are a little less enamored of his leadership and locker room value than they had hoped to be.

I think that is why they compromised with him both on his rookie deal and his extension, which only added 3 years at top DE compensation and could be rendered cap friendly when rolled onto the end of that rookie deal. And I think he accepted that compromise because in 2006 he had his own injury related concerns about his potential value as a FA entering the 2007 season or beyond.

I think long term the jury is out on Seymour finishing his career here or entering the HOF solely for that reason. If he returns after week 10 he will have missed 19 games, or an entire championship season in his first 7 years in the league. I don't think he's milking his injury, I just think he is what he is. I do think he was reluctant to take chances prior to the extension. I think he was willing to once it was in hand, which is why he played through some injuries last season, but has been unable to this season because his body did not respond well to surgical efforts to finally correct a knee condition that likely pre existed the extension. I'm not sure he will age out well at his position.

Of course as they say opinions are like *******s, we all have them. Including patsox23 who likes to liberally sprinkle his with personal insults because anyone whose opinion differs from his, painstakingly formed from 3,000 miles away with selective assistance from mediots whose insight he has determined to be valid, is obviously a moron.... But that's just MHO.

And that's all that some of us are saying.

 

[PantsB]

Seymour's career

Year Team Games/Starts
2001 Patriots 13/10
2002 Patriots 16/16
2003 Patriots 15/14
2004 Patriots 15/15
2005 Patriots 12/12
2006 Patriots 16/15


Yeah major durability issues.

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

Seymour has played his last game as a Patriot.

Jarvis Green is cheaper and better.

Seymour will net us at least a second rounder.

Wherever he goes needs to have a really big trainer's table.



(Just kidding - er - hoping!)

 

[shakadave]

My biggest concern is that we're forced to overuse the rest of the line and they start to wear down and risk injuries themselves.

(Within this thread, there's a good conversation about Seymour here.)

This is my exact concern, too. With lots of healthy players, the health of the team is almost self-perpetuating, because nobody has to play to the point of exhaustion, and injuries are minimized. Now that we have Jarvis Green working so hard, he's 10 times likelier to get injured.

Seymour is still an elite player if and when he's on the field. His annual injuries are a regular enough phenomenon to call him injury prone for sure. Maroney may be the Seymour of the offense.

 

[patsox23]

So I'm a homer because I think Richard Seymour isn't dogging it and isn't now a bad player? Got it. Thanks, guys. Solid arguments.

 

[JackBauer]

Im concerned about big Sey. Since he got the green he has been different.

Really? How, exactly, has he "been different"? What the heck does that even mean?

 

[dhamz]

Seymour's career

Year Team Games/Starts
2001 Patriots 13/10
2002 Patriots 16/16
2003 Patriots 15/14
2004 Patriots 15/15
2005 Patriots 12/12
2006 Patriots 16/15


Yeah major durability issues.

To sum it up, prior to this year Richard Seymour had played 90.625% of the regular season games in his career. That doesn't make him an ironman but it is hardly bad for a guy playing Dline.