Tom Brady Was the Most-Hit QB in the League, from 2006-2007

[maverick4]

The offense will be better than 2007 and yet probably will break none of the passing, receiving, and tochdown records. Yey it will be better because we will be able to run.

I agree. I think this 2009 offense will be even better than the 2007 offense, but not in terms of total points. It will be more unstoppable in key moments and in big games when we need a key 3rd down or late score; it's too balanced and stacked at TE and RB this year. The only thing that could derail it is reverting back to the same offense where Brady got repeatedly pounded into the dirt and we had 3+ receivers on the field over half the snaps.

The fans need to get over the Colts-fan mentality of obsessing over total yards of offense or points. Just because we have the firepower at WR doesn't mean 3+ receivers need to be on the field over half our plays.

 

[maverick4]

Ummm... how is it myopic when I'm talking about other factors?

I even gave you that argument, saying given that the number of pass attempts influences number of hits, what then? You continue to say nothing, because you'd rather troll.

 

[Deus Irae]

I agree. I think this 2009 offense will be even better than the 2007 offense, but not in terms of total points. It will be more unstoppable in key moments and in big games when we need a key 3rd down or late score; it's too balanced and stacked at TE and RB this year. The only thing that could derail it is reverting back to the same offensive where Brady got repeatedly pounded into the dirt and we had 3+ receivers on the field over half the snaps.

The fans need to get over the Colts-fan mentality of obsessing over total yards of offense or points. Just because we have the firepower at WR doesn't mean 3+ receivers need to be on the field over half our plays.

Here we go again..... how many times did Manning get hit? How about Drew Brees? Manning had roughly the same number of pass attempts as Brady, and Brees had significantly more.

 

[maverick4]

Here we go again..... how many times did Manning get hit? How about Drew Brees? Manning had roughly the same number of pass attempts as Brady, and Brees had significantly more.

Why do you keep changing the subject and hijacking this thread? Whatever the factors are that go into hits, the fact is Tom Brady was hit the most his last two years in the league. And you refuse to talk about anything related to offensive adjustments to prevent more league-leading hits on our post-injured star.

Stop hijacking this thread, troll.

 

[Clonamery]

Ummm... how is it myopic when I'm talking about other factors? The reality is that you're the one who's only looking at one thing, and viewing it in a vacuum.

Hey, I was on your side until you started talking about vacuums. What's that got to do with QB hits? You lost me...you just lost me.

 

[unoriginal]

Being that Tom gets hits less than 8% of the time he throws the ball, if we were to reduce the number of times he thew the ball from 2007's high of 578 times to around what Joe Flacco did last year (~430), we'd save about 8 hits on Brady's body compared to the 2007 season.

 

[Deus Irae]

I even gave you that argument, saying given that the number of pass attempts influences number of hits, what then? You continue to say nothing, because you'd rather troll.

I'm not trolling. You're setting up a false argument, and you used it to take a swipe at McDaniels. Brady didn't have significantly more attempts than other passing QBs during that time period, and the Patriots were 9th in rushing attempts in 2007 and 6th in 2006, while being 12th in pass attempts in 2006 and 5th in 2007. In other words, they went 6 (499)/12 (527) and 9 (451)/5 (586) in the respective seasons. That's correct.... in the year that's so very famous for passing the ball all over the place, the disparity in ranking was less than it had been the year before.

Now, which year was Brady hit more, and why? Were the percentages different? How much was a factor of game plan and how much was a factor of surrounding talent? Does Brady hold the ball extra long when men aren't open in order to wait until he can make a play?

As I keep trying to get through to you, it's about more than just a myopic (See, this is how the word is supposed to be used) look at the number of hits taken.

 

[Rob0729]

Pressure on Pats' O-line to protect rebuilt Brady - AFC East - ESPN

QB's who were the most hit in 2006 and in 2007, totals:

Tom Brady Patriots 86
Carson Palmer Bengals 86
Brett Favre Packers 78
Kurt Warner Cardinals 72
Steve McNair Ravens 70

This was clear to anyone who regularly watched the Pats that Brady pre-injury was regularly taking a beating on the field. With Brady coming back from major knee injury, reducing the hits will be even more important. Hopefully our new coordinator won't be as negligent with the minimal protection and obsessed with repeated spread passing formations.

Ahh, it's been a while since Maverick McDaniels bashed. Must have gone through withdrawls.

Maybe Bill O'Brien is a hypnotist or have the Vulcan mind meld or something to convince Brady not to hold onto the ball until the last second to allow his receivers to get open to make the big play.

Funny me, I always thought it was a strength of Brady's game that he would hold onto the ball to the last possible minute to make the big play, but apparently is was yet another one of McDaniels' weaknesses.

BTW, if it is a protection problem, why isn't Dante Scarrnechia immune from blame. I don't think it is a problem, but it would be a talent and/or a blocking technique iussue.

 

[maverick4]

Brady didn't have significantly more attempts than other passing QBs during that time period,

So what if other QB's threw more? Brady was hit the most, why can't you understand this? Why do you keep obsessing over who else passed more, and keep ignoring the fact he got hit the most?

You can't even answer the simple question of whether the Pats need to do anything different on offense to reduce the total hits on post-injury Brady.

 

[Deus Irae]

So what if other QB's threw more? Brady was hit the most, why can't you understand this? Why do you keep obsessing over who else passed more, and keep ignoring the fact he got hit the most?

You can't even answer the simple question of whether the Pats need to do anything different on offense to reduce the total hits on post-injury Brady.

I can understand it. Clearly, you can't. Then again, you probably could if you actually wanted to. However, since it doesn't fit the script you were trying to write, you just keep ignoring the realities of the situation.

 

[maverick4]

BTW, if it is a protection problem, why isn't Dante Scarrnechia immune from blame.

You McDaniels ball washers are making this into a McDaniels thread when it isn't. The o-line could be part of the problem too, which is probably why we drafted 3 o-linemen this year.

The fact is Brady was hit the most.

HOW will the Patriots reduce this in the future (scheme, plays, formations, personnel, etc).

 

[Rob0729]

Being that Tom gets hits less than 8% of the time he throws the ball, if we were to reduce the number of times he thew the ball from 2007's high of 578 times to around what Joe Flacco did last year (~430), we'd save about 8 hits on Brady's body compared to the 2007 season.

Yeah, let's not look at the number of hits, but the percentage of hits vs. number of pass attempts. Then look at the distance thrown on the hits made. I bet those numbers will make those hits look better. But the fact of the matter is the Pats had no running game in 2006 and were the most prolific passing offense in NFL history in 2007 and that is going to increase the number of hits to Brady along with Brady's style of standing in the pocket an extra second or two to get the long passes off.

 

[maverick4]

Yeah, let's not look at the number of hits, but the percentage of hits vs. number of pass attempts. Then look at the distance thrown on the hits made. I bet those numbers will make those hits look better. But the fact of the matter is the Pats had no running game in 2006 and were the most prolific passing offense in NFL history in 2007 and that is going to increase the number of hits to Brady along with Brady's style of standing in the pocket an extra second or two to get the long passes off.

And you have no problem with his, moving forward with post-injury Brady?

 

[Rob0729]

You McDaniels ball washers are making this into a McDaniels thread when it isn't. The o-line could be part of the problem too, which is probably why we drafted 3 o-linemen this year.

The fact is Brady was hit the most.

HOW will the Patriots reduce this in the future (scheme, plays, formations, personnel, etc).

I say bench Brady for O'Connell. As long as Brady is with the team and he has deep threats like Moss and Galloway, he is going to get hit alot. His strength is avoiding the pressure to buy an extra second or two, but the downside of that playing style is getting hit a lot.

 

[maverick4]

As long as Brady is with the team and he has deep threats like Moss and Galloway, he is going to get hit alot. His strength is avoiding the pressure to buy an extra second or two, but the downside of that playing style is getting hit a lot.

So you're saying just accept it?

Brady wasn't hit nearly as much pre-2005, with much crappier offensive weapons.

I disagree with your implication that the Pats should just keep going deep and using slow developing pass plays, like they did in 2006 and 2007.

 

[Rob0729]

And you have no problem with his, moving forward with post-injury Brady?

Considering Brady is one tough son of a biatch and has taken the big hits for years even before McDaniels was the coordinator and the fact that Brady's ability to step up in the pocket (which accounts for a lot of his hits because the pocket has collapsed) is what makes him so special, I don't think much should change. Sorry, but Brady's playing style is that so he will be hit quite a bit on long passes. We just have to deal with it.

The one time he got seriously injured, the protection was solid and the defender lunged at him after getting blocked to the ground. That was a freak play where the protection was done right. If Brady is going to get injured, he is going to get injured. We cannot baby him to take away his game.

 

[Dino 6 Rings]

Great Thread.

Ben Roethlisberger
2008 469 attempts 46 sacks
2007 404 attempts 47 sacks
2006 469 attempts 46 sacks

This thread makes me feel good about My Offensive Line!!! LOL

 

[Deus Irae]

You McDaniels ball washers are making this into a McDaniels thread when it isn't. The o-line could be part of the problem too, which is probably why we drafted 3 o-linemen this year.

The fact is Brady was hit the most.

HOW will the Patriots reduce this in the future (scheme, plays, formations, personnel, etc).

It has nothing to do with McDaniels. You're the one who took the swipe at him. You're asking a question that can't be answered accurately and fully without having further data, which is why I kept pointing out those factors to you. You keep pointing to the number of hits as if that's all that matters when it isn't. They could run nothing but 1 man patterns, and only run 5% of the time, and Brady would still get hit if he held the ball until the very last second before contact while waiting for his receiver to break open. It's just one of the reasons why the number of hits is misleading when it isn't put into the full context needed.

 

[Rob0729]

So you're saying just accept it?

Brady wasn't hit nearly as much pre-2005, with much crappier offensive weapons.

I disagree with your implication that the Pats should just keep going deep and using slow developing pass plays, like they did in 2006 and 2007.

And the Pats didn't throw a lot of vertical passes prior to 2005. 2001 and 2002 were primarily dink and dunk, 2003 was a spread offense that relied on hitting the receiver in stride on quick routes, and 2004 had some deep passes but not nearly as much as post 2005. The offense was average, but solid in 2001 and 2002, unremarkable in 2003 and saved by a dominant defense, and solid in 2004. It isn't surprising that Brady's best year under Weis was when he opened up the offense.

 

[Rob0729]

It has nothing to do with McDaniels. You're the one who took the swipe at him. You're asking a question that can't be answered accurately and fully without having further data, which is why I kept pointing out those factors to you. You keep pointing to the number of hits as if that's all that matters when it isn't. They could run nothing but 1 man patterns, and only run 5% of the time, and Brady would still get hit if he held the ball until the very last second before contact while waiting for his receiver to break open. It's just one of the reasons why the number of hits is misleading when it isn't put into the full context needed.

Yeah, it is funny how it is all McDaniels' fault. It isn't the o-line or the blocking scheme. It isn't Brady. It isn't that percentagewise he isn't getting hit as much as anyone else, but throwing more than a lot of QBs. It is all McDaniels.

Sorry until I see more information, the fact that Brady got hit more than anyone else doesn't tell me there is a problem. It is concerning whenever the QB gets hit, but to blame McDaniels is silly without proof to back it up. QBs get hit for a number of reasons and many times it is their own fault.