Tom Brady, NFLPA Granted 14-Day Extension To File Motion For Rehearing By Second Circuit Court

[Tony2046]

There is not enough evidence in this case to conclude anything with any likelihood of being correct. My gut is that Tom likes them at or around 12.5 and at worst, McNally did something stupid and unecessary just to feel like he was participating in making Tom happy. Of course nobody with a brain thinks that 0 to 0.5 psi makes any difference whatsoever. In fact, I think the difference is likely imperceptible to humans.

For me both the scientific and circumstantial evidence provides a small enough window that rules out the possibility of trying to gain a competitive advantage. I am extremely comfortable stating that Brady did not cheat.

One text message in particular that will stick in my mind is, "Ugh they were supposed to be at 13 psi"

I am also concerned with the level of "corruption" at the NFL's HQ. At every turn during the deflategate saga we have witnessed questionable tactics, mischaracterizations and massive PR smear campaigns. In short, I do not trust the NFL under Roger.

The NFL passes out punishments inconsistently and/or inappropriately. If I were to call pest control I wouldn't want the guy to kill spiders with a sledgehammer while spraying hornet nests with honey.

One thing we haven't discusses is the culture of the NFL. A majority of people drive 70 in a 65mph and consider it acceptable. What was the culture regarding footballs? Crappy gauges, "that's good enough" attitudes and a lack of scientific knowledge. Nobody was concerned with PSI. I think the NFL took advantage of that culture or stepped outside of its boundaries to nail the Pats. It's the equivalent of Roger pulling me over for driving 70 mph and sentencing me to 4 days in jail. And Guess what? I'm not handing over my phone.

 

[letekro]

but that wasn't your original point. you said:



the privacy rationale still exists, because he didn't hand over the two phones to the NFL. he had them analyzed by a forensic analyst that he himself retained.

No my point is that he didn't turn the third phone to the forensic analyst. It is in my post above (#1143).
Brady hired the forensic company to prove to the NFL that they were getting the responsive texts from those devices.

He was never asked to turn over any phone to the NFL, just the responsive texts. So. The timeline is this right?:

1. NFL asks for responsive texts from all devices
2. Brady says "get lost, you have the ones from the ball boys, and you're not getting anything from me"
3. Wells Report comes out, says Brady didn't give all the texts.
4. Vincent letter bases punishment in part on failure to cooperate
5. To appease the NFL and remove the failure to cooperate ground, Brady hires forensic analyst to review the two phones he still has. The third one has been tossed and not available for review.

Well, it is a bit 'spishus to me, as someone who has worked a bit in these environments, that the two older phones were retained, and the newer phone was disposed of. Again, not that there was something incriminating, but there may have been something otherwise damaging to the case or otherwise.

 

[letekro]

Risk of adverse inference is not the same as "you are suspended, in part for non-cooperation."

I don't believe Brady consulted anyone before disposing of the phone, IIRC. It was broken, he got a new one, his assistant took the old one away. From my understanding, that was the extent of it, according to Brady.

I'm not sure about this. I guess slightly better for Brady if that was the case.

 

[letekro]

For me both the scientific and circumstantial evidence provides a small enough window that rules out the possibility of trying to gain a competitive advantage. I am extremely comfortable stating that Brady did not cheat.

One text message in particular that will stick in my mind is, "Ugh they were supposed to be at 13 psi"

I am also concerned with the level of "corruption" at the NFL's HQ. At every turn during the deflategate saga we have witnessed questionable tactics, mischaracterizations and massive PR smear campaigns. In short, I do not trust the NFL under Roger.

The NFL passes out punishments inconsistently and/or inappropriately. If I were to call pest control I wouldn't want the guy to kill spiders with a sledgehammer while spraying hornet nests with honey.

One thing we haven't discusses is the culture of the NFL. A majority of people drive 70 in a 65mph and consider it acceptable. What was the culture regarding footballs? Crappy gauges, "that's good enough" attitudes and a lack of scientific knowledge. Nobody was concerned with PSI. I think the NFL took advantage of that culture or stepped outside of its boundaries to nail the Pats. It's the equivalent of Roger pulling me over for driving 70 mph and sentencing me to 4 days in jail. And Guess what? I'm not handing over my phone.

Yes agree with all of this 100%. A neutral arbiter would've considered the 13 psi text as strong evidence for Brady.

 

[Joker]

You're a blind bat contrarian. You have been STARING AT the impetus behind this mindboggling exercise in complete idiocy all along.

Now read this and ATTEMPT to comprehend what I'm telling you, which has FACTUALLY HAPPENED.

NO PERSON in the United States LEAVES a position as PRESIDENT OF AN NFL FRANCHISE for TWENTY YEARS to take a job out of sight under a former NY JET INTERN who becomes commissioner.

NO PERSON DOES THIS UNLESS THEY HAVE AN AGENDA!!!!


There was no deflation There is no "case" . There are no questions about phones or low level employees tweets because THERE WAS NO ISSUE TO BEGIN WITH!!!!

"Yes it is this Mike Kensil who was prowling the Colts sidelines last week. Yes it is this Mike Kensil, the former Jet with a longstanding grudge against the Patriots who was proactively looking for deflated footballs last week. It is the same Mike Kensil who whispered to Bob Kravitz in a dark tunnel of Gillette about deflated footballs. I’ve even heard rumors that he and the Colts equipment manager conspired to actually deflate the one football that came in at 10.5 PSI. The rest were closer to 11.5 PSI. It is this Mike Kensil who called Chris Mortensen to leak the story about Deflategate."

Who Exactly Is Mike Kensil? AKA – The Ringleader of Deflategate

THERE is your goddamned PROOF you insufferable contrarian. See what you can find on page 31 or 32 of Lecrapko's Manifesto to refute THIS.[/size]

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

They were probably happy he disposed of it. That doesnt mean it wasnt stupid to do so or that there may have been relevant info on it.

Can't base something on the speculation that something might exist or prove something didn't exist. If you were in a trial, how nervous would you be if the plaintiffs had the evidence the NFL had against Brady?

I'd be highly confident of an acquittal. Heck, I don't even think a DA would even attempt to go to trial with the flimsy evidence the NFL had. The only think the NFL has going for it is people's irrational hatred of everything N.E. Patriots.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

No my point is that he didn't turn the third phone to the forensic analyst. It is in my post above (#1143).
Brady hired the forensic company to prove to the NFL that they were getting the responsive texts from those devices.

He was never asked to turn over any phone to the NFL, just the responsive texts. So. The timeline is this right?:

1. NFL asks for responsive texts from all devices
2. Brady says "get lost, you have the ones from the ball boys, and you're not getting anything from me"
3. Wells Report comes out, says Brady didn't give all the texts.
4. Vincent letter bases punishment in part on failure to cooperate
5. To appease the NFL and remove the failure to cooperate ground, Brady hires forensic analyst to review the two phones he still has. The third one has been tossed and not available for review.

Well, it is a bit 'spishus to me, as someone who has worked a bit in these environments, that the two older phones were retained, and the newer phone was disposed of. Again, not that there was something incriminating, but there may have been something otherwise damaging to the case or otherwise.

The NFL * never had any right to see any contents of any private phone. They cant base non cooperation on the phone...period.

I thank you for bringing the illogical fan perspective to this conversation as I'm sure we all learned well from your dialog.

For me that means to identify the point where rational discussion is lost (that can be my paradigm or the type you represent) and to disengage/walk away.

No sarcasm when I say "Thank You".

 

[Tony2046]

The NFL * never had any right to see any contents of any private phone. They cant base non cooperation on the phone...period.

I thank you for bringing the illogical fan perspective to this conversation as I'm sure we all learned well from your dialog.

For me that means to identify the point where rational discussion is lost (that can be my paradigm or the type you represent) and to disengage/walk away.

No sarcasm when I say "Thank You".

I found that conversation productive and useful. The phone issue is interesting because many "haters" hang their hat on it while many supporters trip over it. For me, discussing the phone is fine but disengage when turned over phone logs and text messages are dismissed.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

The NFL * never had any right to see any contents of any private phone. They cant base non cooperation on the phone...period.

Disagree.

Absent a contract or a state labor or privacy law to the contrary, employers do have the right to see the contents of your private phone and to punish you with up to and including termination if you refuse.

 

[Tony2046]

Disagree.

Absent a contract or a state labor or privacy law to the contrary, employers do have the right to see the contents of your private phone and to punish you with up to and including termination if you refuse.

I did not know that.

 

[Ivan]

Still waiting for leterko to provide all those scientists who agreed with Exponent?

 

[chasa]

There is not enough evidence in this case to conclude anything with any likelihood of being correct.

really?



Science and facts point to something happening. and that something is called physics.

unless you think mcnally was able to take a fraction of a psi out of 12 footballs in less then a minute.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

From Troy Vincent's letter to Brady:

"With respect to your particular involvement, the report established that there is substantial and credible evidence to conclude you were at least generally aware of the actions of the Patriots' employees involved in the deflation of the footballs and that it was unlikely that their actions were done without your knowledge. Moreover, the report documents your failure to cooperate fully and candidly with the investigation, including by refusing to produce any relevant electronic evidence (emails, texts, etc.) despite being offered extraordinary safeguards by the investigators to protect unrelated personal information, and by providing testimony that the report concludes was not plausible and contradicted by other evidence."

---

So Vincent wanted the texts and emails, and said that there was no reason not to get them because they were to be kept private.

So I ask you, what happened later, when Brady gave them his emails?

They were leaked to the media immediately and he took grief for, among other minor things, commenting that Peyton may retire soon and that he was mad at a pool company for giving him a pool cover that was the wrong color.

This alone shows why you do not give those lying morons any more than you have to.

 

[ReverendMaynard]

So I ask you, what happened later, when Brady gave them his emails?

They were leaked to the media immediately and he took grief for, among other minor things, commenting that Peyton may retire soon and that he was mad at a pool company for giving him a pool cover that was the wrong color.

This alone shows why you do not give those lying morons any more than you have to.

Just to keep the record straight, the reason the emails came out was because they were part of the record of the appeal to Goodell that was ordered to be released by Judge Berman.

 

[Froob]

You're a blind bat contrarian. You have been STARING AT the impetus behind this mindboggling exercise in complete idiocy all along.

Now read this and ATTEMPT to comprehend what I'm telling you, which has FACTUALLY HAPPENED.

NO PERSON in the United States LEAVES a position as PRESIDENT OF AN NFL FRANCHISE for TWENTY YEARS to take a job out of sight under a former NY JET INTERN who becomes commissioner.

NO PERSON DOES THIS UNLESS THEY HAVE AN AGENDA!!!!


There was no deflation There is no "case" . There are no questions about phones or low level employees tweets because THERE WAS NO ISSUE TO BEGIN WITH!!!!

"Yes it is this Mike Kensil who was prowling the Colts sidelines last week. Yes it is this Mike Kensil, the former Jet with a longstanding grudge against the Patriots who was proactively looking for deflated footballs last week. It is the same Mike Kensil who whispered to Bob Kravitz in a dark tunnel of Gillette about deflated footballs. I’ve even heard rumors that he and the Colts equipment manager conspired to actually deflate the one football that came in at 10.5 PSI. The rest were closer to 11.5 PSI. It is this Mike Kensil who called Chris Mortensen to leak the story about Deflategate."

Who Exactly Is Mike Kensil? AKA – The Ringleader of Deflategate

THERE is your goddamned PROOF you insufferable contrarian. See what you can find on page 31 or 32 of Lecrapko's Manifesto to refute THIS.[/size]

Please call into PFT live some morning. We need Florio to hear one of your rants because it's spot on.

 

[RobertWeathers]

From Troy Vincent's letter to Brady:

"With respect to your particular involvement, the report established that there is substantial and credible evidence to conclude you were at least generally aware of the actions of the Patriots' employees involved in the deflation of the footballs and that it was unlikely that their actions were done without your knowledge. Moreover, the report documents your failure to cooperate fully and candidly with the investigation, including by refusing to produce any relevant electronic evidence (emails, texts, etc.) despite being offered extraordinary safeguards by the investigators to protect unrelated personal information, and by providing testimony that the report concludes was not plausible and contradicted by other evidence."

---

So Vincent wanted the texts and emails, and said that there was no reason not to get them because they were to be kept private.

So I ask you, what happened later, when Brady gave them his emails?

They were leaked to the media immediately and he took grief for, among other minor things, commenting that Peyton may retire soon and that he was mad at a pool company for giving him a pool cover that was the wrong color.

This alone shows why you do not give those lying morons any more than you have to.

The only thing Tom did wrong was deactivate his phone in the timeframe Wells showed up to Foxboro. Thats it.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Just to keep the record straight, the reason the emails came out was because they were part of the record of the appeal to Goodell that was ordered to be released by Judge Berman.

good point

It also suggests that the 10,000 text messages would have been released as well, had Brady supplied them as requested.

Let's have a show of hands: how many of you on this forum wants all of the text messages that you have sent in the past 2 years to be posted on the internet?

-this may include texts & pics from your supermodel wife
-this may include texts to your buddy Peyton Manning, where you tell him that you don't want any of his leftover HGH
-this may include texts to union management about labor relations issues, imagining that you are a union leader...

anyone?

 

[Mack Herron]

Another legal perspective

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

Disagree.

Absent a contract or a state labor or privacy law to the contrary, employers do have the right to see the contents of your private phone and to punish you with up to and including termination if you refuse.

That feels wrong. Or there are always in effect laws for each citizen. i would think the police couldn't demand entry to my property (including phone).

Do they have rights to any of my other personal items? Can they demand a walkthrough my house or car too?

 

[RobertWeathers]

good point

It also suggests that the 10,000 text messages would have been released as well, had Brady supplied them as requested.

Let's have a show of hands: how many of you on this forum wants all of the text messages that you have sent in the past 2 years to be posted on the internet?

-this may include texts & pics from your supermodel wife
-this may include texts to your buddy Peyton Manning, where you tell him that you don't want any of his leftover HGH
-this may include texts to union management about labor relations issues, imagining that you are a union leader...

anyone?

I think even Mrs Robertweathers would be impressed.

to: [email protected]
from: GB

Subject: Come Over?

Hey-

Hes gone. I'm waiting 4 u.