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Tobacco could kill 1 Billion this Century

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by scout, Jul 11, 2006.

  1. scout

    scout Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

  2. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    It's Bush's fault.
  3. IcyPatriot

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    #87 Jersey


    Smoking and Alcohol contribute greatly to much death and social problems in this country. Yet, our government derives great income from both. I have never understood this...always seemed backwards to me.

    The government is always coming up with things to be banned and yet banning smoking legally (like a drug) has never come close to happening.

    Many states have adopted no smoking policies...but like a war...the death toll is staggering before the enabler learned the lesson.

    As per the production of cigarettes...not sure that would work. Many people are already buying tobacco and rolling their own to save money. BTW...Uncle Sam still gets his large cut of the pie from tobacco sales also.

    Cigarettes, Booze, and Gasoline taxes...will always enable the highest consumption possible.
  4. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Remember when they tried to ban alcohol ? I've never smoked a cigarette in my life but I can imagine the uproar if they tried to ban them.
  5. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Fortunately, there are fewer and fewer instances of anyone ever having to inhale second hand smoke. Virtually all workplaces and public settings are now smoke free. The lone holdouts are bars and restaurants but even those are getting more and more regulated. But I think a complete ban on smoking would be pretty difficult to implement, don't you..?

    Besides, here's a dirty little secret: The government is as addicted to tax revenues from cigarette sales as the smokers are addicted to nicotine.
  6. scout

    scout Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

    The bottom line is that the sale of tobacco should be banned. No, this will not happen for the same reason FDR taxed social security, it produces money. In addition, the people in power get huge contributions from big tobacco. Thus, you hear politicians state, milk is just as dangerous as cigarettes (Dole). There is no legitimate argument in defense of tobacco, it has no redeeming qualities. My guess is we are the leading exporter of tobacco, in another 20 years this will help us in our goodwill department overseas. At least with exporting military arsenal you can make a case for it. JoeSixPack stated in a previous thread that it would have a devastating economic impact on southern states which made sense until you break it down, weigh the detriments of tobacco vs the economy of a number of southern states. So, we plant different crops, pay farmers not to plant, whatever it takes. Heck, if we can lose track of 8 billion dollars in Iraq we can re-invent our poisonous farm land. It would not be prohibition. If people need to grow it, roll it, or get it in the black market, so be it. Right now 20% of U.S. smoke cigarettes. Stop over-the-counter sales and that is going to drop dramatically. I really don't care if you smoke. I care when I have to breath it. I care that my four and five year old daughters will have to deal with it in 10 years. Our government, tries to circumvent court rulings over an individual who is comatose, is outraged in regards to gay marriage, but turns a blind eye towards an addictive deadly product.
  7. Mainefan

    Mainefan Rookie

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    A complete ban on cigarette smoking would be both impossible and undesirable. The last thing we need is a return to prohibition. People will smoke in the privacy of their homes and their cars until smoking is universally disapproved of then they will quit of their own accord.
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2006
  8. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    When the government began to regulate individual adult choices, combined with government compensation of skyrocketing hospital costs, they now fell that they have acquired the right to ban this and regulate that for our own good.
    Things happen for a reason. I have no problem with the government enforcing laws that forbid a company like Philli Morris to be able to lie and poison the People. Illness and death due to cigarettes are much higher in this country due to the fact that American companies infuse tobacco with toxic chemicals and preservatives. If you roll your own with organic tobacco or smoke weed, you will be much happier and healthier than if you did a pack of Marlboros a day. This enforcement power the government legitimately has extends to pesticides and anti-biotics used by the giant farming corporations and food processors as well as environmental polluters who knowingly contaminate the air and water.

    Instead of creating more laws that will result in the confiscation of property, imprisonment, or worse, the government should begin enforcing laws that already exist and stop collecting cash from special interest lobbies that gain favoritism and protection from the law.
  9. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar Rookie

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    Hey wistah is the wormsway way grow shop still in buisness, I think it's in wistah/webster area? If the gov't bans tobacco , I will purchase grow lights or find a tobacco supplier from N.C..
  10. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    If it is as bad as everyone says it is then it should be banned. But, instead they raise taxes on addicted people. Yes, our government has real compassion, don't they.

    Then the give another class of addicted people SSI which is used to buy new drugs or alcohol and ruin SS.

    I do have to laugh seeing tobacco was orininally a crop of the Indians and was give as a gift to the Europeans. Then they traded for it. Then the Europeans took it over. Revenge!!:)
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2006
  11. IcyPatriot

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    #87 Jersey

    Be carefull BlueCollar. A other of a friend of mine was recently sent a tax bill from the (ATF?), not sure who but it was for tobacco taxes, that's for sure.

    She was buying the tabacky on the internet...some sites are charging the tax and others are not...to increase sales I would assume.

    The went through all her credit card statements and checking statements to see what she bought. They charged tax on 12 sales....but she had purchased much more. They sent her a form to fill out and now she is scared.

    She does not have the money to pay the tax...she's one of those "Notch Babies" who gets minimal SSI money because of her age and work record.

    She purchased much of the tabacky C.O.D. and is contemplating not filling it out. Letting Uncle Sam bear the burden of proof for the sales she figures. She says "they won't jail an 86 year old woman would they?...so scr ew them!!!" :rofl:

    So, be carefull all you internet tabacky purchasers...Uncle Sam needs more $$$.
  12. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Where exactly are you and your daughters going that you are forced to breathe secondhand smoke...?
  13. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The whole country is going nuts and it all started the day Barbara Bush gave birth to George W.

    Why do the Looney Liberals whine and splutter over privacy, discrimination, wiretapping, civil liberties, civil rights, the constitution, FREEDOM and all the rest of the sh!t they squawk and bleat about but when it comes to somebody smoking a cigarette they want them crucified.

    TOBACO IS LEGAL
    :bricks: "I don't smoke, but you can if you want to"

    F-ck Daylight Savings Time.
  14. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ---- JAG ----- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Does your neighbor's wife smoke or is she smoking?
  15. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I haven't seen her for a couple of weeks, they went camping.
    :rocker:
  16. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ---- JAG ----- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    :mad: no [​IMG] for Harry [​IMG].
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2006
  17. scout

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    #15 Jersey

    I am amazed when I walk into a restaurant and they ask smoking or nonsmoking. This happened recently as I moved to a Chicago suburb. You would think living in a trendy upscale area that the smoking laws would be more strict. There is no denying that the anti-smoking laws are better, but there are still places where you have the pleasure of sucking in second hand smoke. The reference on my daughters was in regards to resisting teen pressure and whatever tobacco marketing has in store for them. Big tobacco needs young smokers for its on-going concern if it wants to stay domestic. What lenghts will they go? We already know they lie under oath and are in bed with politicians.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 16, 2005
  18. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    I just spent a little while in Amsterdam (The Netherlands) and Brussels (Belgium) - not once were we asked if we wanted smoking or non... they've never heard of a non-smoking section.
  19. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    It's actually a national chain in a half-dozen states:
    http://www.wormsway.com/stores/Mass.asp

    That's the way - grow your own, roll your own.
  20. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Like where...? As I mentioned in a previous post, the only bastions left are restaurants and bars - and even then it is more adult type places than say McDonald's or Burger King. I guess I should add casinos to that list also. I am not saying that second hand smoke isn't dangerous, I am just saying that the amount of exposure non-smokers have to 2ndhand smoke is decreasing day by day. But what's next...? Will it be illegal to smoke in your own house if you have children living there..?
    Well that's where your responsibility as a parent comes in.
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2006
  21. scout

    scout Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

    Do you not go out? I lived in Florida and sucked second hand smoke way too often. You should be able to eat food in restaurants without breathing poison. I moved to the North Shore of Chicago, smoking or non-smoking. There are many rural areas that do not have anti-smoking laws. I wouldn't go to a casino for just that reason. Fortunately, I don't go to bars anymore. Although, on vacation at the beach bar there's nothing like a pina colada with a puff of smoke. A recent report on second hand smoke stated it was just as evil as smoking. If your smoking in your own house in which children live, then you are an IDIOT. Not only are you schooling them that it is ok to smoke (its not) but you putting them in danger. My responsibility as a parent is to inform not only my children the dangers of smoking, but also to demand, push, and vent to the public and our deep pocketed politicians that smoking is evil and that more should be done about it till it is not sold over the counter anymore. If you smoke already, fine, but why should a five year old have to make that decision on whether to breath poison when they reach smoking age? As I mentioned previously, there are no redeeming qualities for this product.
  22. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar Rookie

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    And banning tobacco will raise a pack of cigg's from $4 to $50 and I will buy matel halide and sodium vapor lights and be a green thumb for prospective buyers in the market for hydro-tobacco, for a worthy cause$$$:D
  23. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    I agree, but instead of answering my question you simply gave a condescending remark. So I shall ask again... where, besides restaurants, will you have to deal with 2nd hand smoke...? (Bars are a subcategory of restaurant and I threw in casinos for good measure). And obviously when I say "restaurants" that doesn't include McDonald's or Burger King.

    While I certainly agree 2nd hand smoke is unhealthy, I find it impossible to believe that everyone in the room suffers as much from one cigarette as the idiot actually taking it into his own lungs firsthand.

    Again, you didn't answer the question. So I shall ask again... Do you think it should be illegal for an adult to smoke in the privacy of their own house if they have children living there...? Sounds to me like you do, but I don't want to put words in your mouth so I look forward to your response to that question.
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2006
  24. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Where are the trade mark Liberal tantrums, foot stomping and whiney Outrage at the mere mention of "Banning" something (smoking)?

    Where are the champions of FREEDOM the kind caring compassionate babbling blubbering LIBERALS.

    Smoking is in danger of being Censored and Banned, freedom is being taken away from the law abiding citizen to smoke tobaco a LEGAL product and not a peep of anger from the Neo Lib Dip Sh!ts, oh Jesus H Christ.
    :bricks:
  25. scout

    scout Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

    I have to deal with smokers when I walk through a downtown area. Smokers congregate because they cannot smoke inside, creating a cloud of smoke. Although, restaurants are at the top of my list as extreme areas. The only reason I was condescending was that it sounded like you wanted a fight from your reply. The last article I read was quite clear, second hand smoke is just as critical (I'll continue to look for the link). As I mentioned earlier, I don't care if someone smokes, just don't do it where it infringes on my well being. Although, if you choose to smoke in your house with children present, you are inconsiderate to the welfare of your children. I don't think it should be illegal, it falls in the moral category. Drinking beer isn't illegal either, but I wouldn't sit in front of my kids with a six pack. Smoking with kids is a major influence, called learned behavior. If thats what floats your boat, go for it.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 16, 2005
  26. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    I don't smoke, I don't ride motorcycles and I always wear my seatbelt. But I am sick and tired of the busybodies in government who are constantly eroding our rights to do unhealthy things. These people honestly believe they know what's best for me more than I do.
  27. scout

    scout Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

    I hear you brother. I believe in a states rights. I believe in a right to die. I believe my bedroom is private. Now if we can get the Republican party to get back to these beliefs we'll be fine. Oh, and I believe I have the right to breath clean air.
  28. PatsFanInVa

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    I am beginning to wonder whether the nice round "could kill 1 billion this century" figure includes the antismoking militants killed by their own smugness, like the hybrid-owners in "South Park" -- or for that matter, killed by their irate countrymen whose lifestyles differ from their own.

    I have had it with the whining, pissing, and moaning regarding my "second hand smoke" in open-air areas, well away from entrances of buildings. This morning, an angry, militant anti-smoker spat at myself and two friends the following: "This is non-smoking out here! All of it!" while walking past us on our left. She was referring to a city-block sized outdoor plaza. It also just so happens that she was wrong -- but as in much of this debate, that should come as no surprise. What is utterly unacceptable to me was her tone. I cannot capture it here, but rest assured, it is "that" tone: the tone reserved for dismissive scolds and comments for smokers, our current villains du jour. You know the tone: the bitter, hateful tone you aren't allowed to level at any other class of person, without throwing on a hood and doing it in torchlight. It's absurd. The arguments concocted to justify this far more toxic incivility, is that the real culprit is anything, anybody, or any situation vaguely connected to tobacco consumption. Guess what? My stress from these a-holes probably contributes to my chances of medical distress far more at this point, than I contribute to their lung ailments due to my enjoyment of fine, addictive, carcinogenic tar bars, in well-ventillated outdoor venues.

    I'm at the point of just saying "screw 'em" to the anti-smoker rants on the horrible, vile second-hand smoke they're forced to inhale. They blew that argument with me, when they pressed for "smoke free" cities, towns, and now, the whole country.

    Why did the anti-smoking activists take this tack? Because MOST PEOPLE WANT TO SMOKE IN A BAR -- even occasional smokers, who ONLY smoke in bars. Therefore, the logical step of opening non-smoking restaurants would not do the trick, because they would fail due to competition. They would be the "niche" they deserve to be, not the majority of the hospitality industry.

    What was the legal tactic? To claim that the employees of such establishment are harmed by second-hand smoke. Well, if you're a miner, you have a greater chance of death from a mine collapse. Mining is not, therefore, illegal. Those who engage in mining are aware of the risks, no matter how those risks are addressed, and CHOOSE to take the job. The hospitality industry does not sell hostility, it sells hospitality. And if you are unable to be hospitable enough to endure the popularity of smoking in a bar that permits smoking, you really need to look for another line of work.

    Anti-smokers are already far beyond what should be accorded them in terms of "rights," in that they have closed down a type of venue greatly enjoyed by their fellow citizens, in a great many locations, because of their need to go to EVERY restaurant or bar, rather than an alternative niche, provided ANYBODY ELSE CARES ENOUGH to go to the non-smoking "alternative" establishment.

    The demand that open-air, ventillated areas be smoke-free is just plain patently absurd. Here's an idea for you and your daughters. Go places where people don't smoke indoors, and consider the following regarding open areas: If your requirement is that you never smell the offending odor of cigarette smoke, that your eyes are never assailed by the sight of grown adults enjoying a legal product, or that your risk of lung cancer never be affected in the least bit by the habit of others, I suggest that you become more aware of environmental pollutants in general, rather than specifically the habits of smokers, especially given the factor of several thousand times the exposure to more ubiquitous environmental culprits (industry, transportation, etc.) which you endure without comment.

    You speak of how horrible second-hand smoke is in a downtown area. I submit that every time you walk by a smoker, you notice disproportionately that individual's habit. If you're in a downtown area, you've decided not to notice the ambient pollution level or AQI, to say nothing of visible clouds of smoke, thin or dense, belching out of every motor vehicle. That's because you can point a finger at another person -- me, the smoker -- and have someone to morally chastise for what is, in the end, that person's personal choice.

    In Washington, D.C., where I live, a couple of days every summer it's stated that it would be healthier to smoke a cigarette than breathe the air. I neither walk up to random strangers demanding they smoke, nor scream at every passing motorist stating my view that their car is to blame for any future health problem I may encounter.

    I'd very much like to see the stats on the risk you're undertaking by sharing large, outdoor areas with your fellow smoking citizens. You -- and I -- undertake other risks every day, both voluntary and involuntary. Since you do have a remedy at hand, that is, avoiding indoor smoking establishments, the test of your complaint is the burden you're carrying by living in a free society and respecting my right to smoke. If personal freedom isn't high on your list of moral imperatives, then you're philosophically incapable of understanding this as a "moral" issue; however, if you're familiar with the notion of stepping into the shoes of your antagonist and exchanging positions, it may still bear on your view of the issue, to consider that you and your children are not the only human beings on the planet with rights or expectations, and that the rest of us are also entitled to our viewpoints and actions, until it can be proven that they significantly affect your health or wellbeing.

    Let's be clear: the aesthetic argument has no affect on my thoughts here. "Because you find it unpleasant" doesn't meet the standard we're talking about. I find your hypersensitivity "unpleasant," unless you can show that minimal exposure, in ventillated outdoor areas, has a big effect on your health. I don't like looking at ugly people or smelling the hygenically challenged. I am, however, unable to avoid it, and accept it, without shrilly informing them about showers, challenging their likelihood of spreading disease, etc. Let's apply that standard of proof to smoking. What we're looking for is proof that exposure over a very brief interval of time, to very limited concentrations of smoke in a well-ventillated environment, a few times a day, has a significant impact on your health or that of your children.

    Finally, the notion that it's a pressing social problem that your children will "see" or "smell" smoking, has no bearing "morally" on anybody outside a very circumscribed and puritanical worldview held by a sliver of society. I do not doubt that this sliver will attempt to impose its puritanism elsewhere, and may even succeed. But it's an outlook I view as obscene and immoral, and generative of the type of anti-smoker hatred I described earlier in this post. Where is your concern that your children be taught to respect the rights of others?

    PFnV
  29. PatsFanInVa

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    I would also like to stipulate that my agreement with Harry on anything, at any time, is purely a regrettable coincidence.

    :bricks:
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 17, 2005
  30. patsfan13

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    If your not careful you may turn into a cyrpto libertarian conservative!;)

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