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The two roughing the passers were pretty ridiculous in my mind.

The first was just a bit ticky-tacky, but the PF on Suggs was absurd. The referees were basically judging Terrell's intent as he never actually touched the quarterback, and, without trying to sound bitter, if it hadn't been Tom Brady, the superstar quarterback who had previously suffered a knee injury, I'm not sure the flag would have been thrown.

last week, i posted to one of your fellow Baltimore fans that I'd be out here after the game to congratulate you if you won, no excuses and no bull****.

wish you guys could do the same.

you've got a great team and you're playing big time games against the elite now. i'll be a lot more open to claims like yours when you beat Pittsburgh or the Pats in a big game, something you haven't done either this year or last so far.

until then, zip it on "bad calls"...

those calls were both according to the rules; one of the hits would have been fine last year and the other was ruled illegal a while ago.
 
The Ravens professionalism is best epitomized by their leader, Ray Lewis:

...

Ray's whining sounds like the Raiders' complaining about the Tuck Rule, omitting the numerous opportunities they had later.

like Clayton dropping Flacco's pass on the numbers for a first and goal at the Pats 4 with plenty of time to punch it in for the winning score....is that the kind of opportunity you're talking about? :singing:
 
Indeed. Way too early to make judgments. But why not try, anyway? :D

A this admittedly very early point there are 4 teams that stand out in terms of being potentially "complete" teams - teams that can run the ball, pass effectively, defend the run, defend the pass, rush the passer, and have solid special teams: the Pats and Ravens in the AFC, and the Giants and Saints in the NFC.

In the AFC, the Colts and Chargers look one-dimensional at this point. Neither has a run defense, and both are way too unbalanced in terms of the pass. The Jets and Broncos have been terrific on defense, but don't seem to have the offensive power it will likely take to get it done. The Steelers have the potential to be a complete team, but haven't played close to that so far.

The Ravens and Pats both looked like solid contending teams yesterday. Both could slip, especially if injuries occur, but both teams looked pretty complete. The Ravens' pass defense is their weakest spot. We're solid all around but still not quite clicking on all 4 cylinders.

In the NFC, the Giants and Saints meet in 2 weeks to determine NFC bragging rights. Yes it's early, but the Saints have showed better ability to run the ball and much better defense than expected. Their defense essentially outplayed the Jets defense yesterday. I still think the Giants are the class of the NFC until proven otherwise, however. Minnesota's probably the only other team worth considering right now, but I don't believe that Favre can sustain his performance over a 16 game season, and their WRs are very limited.

I'm hoping the Colts continue to blow people away with their passing game and get all the accolades, just like they did in 2003-2004, right up until they lost in the playoffs. I like us lurking just a little bit in the shadows.

Good post. I just have to add one more thing. As much as I hate to say it, I think the Steelers are going to be one of those teams on the list of "balanced" teams in the AFC. They proved last night that they can still run the ball with the best of them. Just imagine what they are going to be like once Parker returns to the line-up. On top of that, they still have Big Ben and have proven that they can also pass their way down the field. The only thing that's missing from their line-up right now is someone that can generate a turnover and cover the entire field on defense. That someone should be coming back in a few weeks. They still almost blew it last night, but don't count them out yet.
 
I don't know why anyone has to whine about the refs. In fact, I thought it was well officiated. We got the same call for Mike Wright. Those should be called!!!!

Second the only way we could ever know on that fake 4th down play would be from a camera angle top down.

Suggs is a punk for going for brady's knee and then crying about it.

As long as they keep crying they will keep getting the same results.
 
Well, I can understand why some of us are taking it so hard. Most of us feel that we have a championship caliber team, and got a lot of flak because the teams we beat were KC, SD and Cle, so many people were saying we're a "fake" 3-0 because we didn't beat any elite teams. This game was about respect for us, because here was our chance to go into New England and beat them in their own house, which would have brought a lot of credibility to us. But we blew it. It's a tough pill to swallow.

Season's not over, dude.

You guys will be right in there in January. Take a breath.
 
Season's not over, dude.

You guys will be right in there in January. Take a breath.

Indeed. I fully expect for us to see them again either Divisional weekend or Championship weekend. I don't think my heart can take another Baltimore game though...
 
And, as is the case most seasons, there's only a team or two that you can look at and say "They'll be tough in the playoffs", and really be confident of that.


The Baltimore Ravens will be tough in the playoffs. And I feel really confident of that.
 
The Baltimore Ravens will be tough in the playoffs. And I feel really confident of that.

If Flacco is throwing 40+ times in the playoffs, Baltimore will be 1-and-done. And I feel really confident of that.
 
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Well, I can understand why some of us are taking it so hard. Most of us feel that we have a championship caliber team, and got a lot of flak because the teams we beat were KC, SD and Cle, so many people were saying we're a "fake" 3-0 because we didn't beat any elite teams. This game was about respect for us, because here was our chance to go into New England and beat them in their own house, which would have brought a lot of credibility to us. But we blew it. It's a tough pill to swallow.

Most on this board acknowledged that you have an excellent team before the game. I don't think anyone can doubt it after the game. I think you earned a lot of respect in this game - though personally I feel that some of the post-game comments detract from the performance. There's no reason to whine about the calls. You played well enough to win but lost. There's no shame in that. The calls and bounced could go the other way in January if we meet again.
 
If Flacco is throwing 40+ times in the playoffs, Baltimore will be 1-and-done. And I feel really confident of that.

Another point where will have to disagree with you ......just as with the Seymour trade, I'm not all that worried about it.

I'm sure that will make me a "Ravens Koolaid Drinker".
 
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Right, I called the first roughing the passer "ticky-tacky" because although it was the "correct" call, it was pretty much incidental contact with the player lunging at Brady as he was throwing.

The second personal foul on Suggs, however, shouldn't have been called because he never actually touched Brady, period.

Mason was called for a ridiculous pushoff, and Carr was called for holding on Welker, and neither of those calls were really even close to being correct.


My opinion on the officiating isn't going to mean much on this board as I clearly bring in a bias, but I'm honestly be as objective as possible when I say that this was a horribly officiated game.

Flacco's called personal foul was the most blatant of the three, but I agree, his hit was also iffy as the fingers barely grazed his face.

Interesting to hear from a Baltimore fan's perspective. Actually, all 4 calls were correct from this fan's perspective. Mason's running into the defender was a very obvious penalty (receivers are not allowed to do that and when they do and the ball is thrown towards them, the penalty is called "offensive pass interference"). Even you seem to admit that the head blows are correctly called but you don't like it.
 
Interesting to hear from a Baltimore fan's perspective. Actually, all 4 calls were correct from this fan's perspective. Mason's running into the defender was a very obvious penalty (receivers are not allowed to do that and when they do and the ball is thrown towards them, the penalty is called "offensive pass interference"). Even you seem to admit that the head blows are correctly called but you don't like it.


I agree. I didn't see a blown call either on the Ravens or the Patriots.

Wright's roughing Flacco called (evidently lost in the Ravens' players and fans' amnesia) was the right call. So was the offensive PI on Moss.

It is what it is and was called on both teams. You hit the QB's head, it's a flag. You dive at the knees, it's a flag. You smack a DB beyond 5 yards on a pass pattern, it's Offensive PI.

I don't know what they're trying to convince their own egos about. It's as if they are trying to argue that the Ravens were really wearing orange and purple unis yesterday when there is video proof of the contrary in hi def.
 
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It was a good game, by two really good teams. I'm just glad Clayton decided to drop the pass that could have been converted into the winning TD for the Ravens. What a relief that was!
 
Another point where will have to disagree with you ......just as with the Seymour trade, I'm not all that worried about it.

I'm sure that will make me a "Ravens Koolaid Drinker".

I am confused on what exactly you are disagreeing about: Flacco throwing 40+ times or Ravens losing if Flacco throws 40+ times? :confused:
 
Yuck. This game was the most Billick-esque performance we've seen since Harbaugh arrived. Personal fouls, coaches as out of control as players, post-game fingerpointing at the refs, shaky clock management, etc.

But I have confidence the Ravens will rebound. I said this would be a measuring stick game, and I think we saw that the Ravens are a very good time that can't quite overcome mistakes/bad breaks on the road to beat an elite opponent -- so, either stop making those mistakes, or get good enough to overcome them. I thought they showed a lot of heart to battle back (especially without their starting LT) and be in position to maybe win the game at the end.

Cam Cameron got way out of balance this game. On second down, the Ravens passed 17 times and ran 3. On third down, they passed 11 times and ran once. Their only third down run was the one where Rice got stuffed immediately prior to McGahee getting stuffed on fourth down. The running game doesn't work that way -- if you haven't established it for three quarters, it's not suddenly going to be there in the fourth. If Cameron was going to be so pass-heavy all day, he should have stuck by his guns with the game on the line and not suddenly try to discover the ground game.

I mentioned in the pre-game thread that before yesterday, Flacco had a first down QB rating of 126.7. On first down yesterday, Flacco went 9 of 18 for 91 yards, 0 TDs, and his only first down INT of the season. That's a QB rating on first down of 41.6. I'll have to watch the tape to see what happened, but I fully expected the genius of Belichick to shut down the Ravens' first down passing attack. It did, and the Ravens never countered.

Great game. I might be flattering the Ravens a little, but my guess is you might not be looking forward to seeing them again in January. Thanks for being such good hosts and I hope we have the chance to meet again!

One other thing -- I thought the Pats' fans showed a lot of class with their respectful applause for both the Ravens' injured players. Just a great game, and I wish the Ravens wouldn't have marred the on-field competition with all the post-game whining.


Solid observations lost in the shuffle. Oddly the one injury that got a lukewarm reaction was Sanders. Can't imagine if Maroney ever got carted off. We're a strange crowd but I guess that's what 3 Lombardi's, an 18-1 season and no championships in 4 whole seasons will do to you...
 
Most on this board acknowledged that you have an excellent team before the game. I don't think anyone can doubt it after the game. I think you earned a lot of respect in this game - though personally I feel that some of the post-game comments detract from the performance. There's no reason to whine about the calls. You played well enough to win but lost. There's no shame in that. The calls and bounced could go the other way in January if we meet again.

I'm less convinced that the Ravens are for real now than I was on Saturday, personally. They're obviously a very talented team, but if this is how they react when they lose a hard-fought game, then that's not going to do them any favors.
 
Great game. I might be flattering the Ravens a little, but my guess is you might not be looking forward to seeing them again in January. Thanks for being such good hosts and I hope we have the chance to meet again!

Personally, I'd love our two teams to meet again in the AFCCG (preferably in Foxboro). I believe these will prove to be the two best teams in the AFC, and, frankly, of all the other top teams, if we don't go to the SB I'd rather see you guys go than Indy, Pittsburgh, SD or the Jets. After all, we aren't going to be playing Cleveland or Oakland in the playoffs, so there won't be any weak opponents.

One thing that tends to differentiate the Pats from other teams is the culture of accountability that Belichick has instilled throughout the organization. When we lose (as in the Jets game) we accept responsibility for it. There's not a lot of finger pointing at other people. Then we go figure out what to fix to get past it. We rightly found ourselves lacking in our performance in the Jets game, and took steps to fix it.

I have no doubt that if you guys stop the whining and finger pointing and take a good hard look at the little things that stopped you from winning the game, that the next go around will be even tougher.

Good luck.
 
lacking in our performance in the Jets game, and took steps to fix it.

I have no doubt that if you guys stop the whining and finger pointing and take a good hard look at the little things that stopped you from winning the game, that the next go around will be even tougher.

Good luck.

You are a well informed poster,but that is just ridiculous.

I have no doubt that if you were not a Pats fan and the shoe was on the other foot you would be "wining" and complaining" as well.

Everyone saw the calls. Everyone except fans of the Patriots.

Every beat writer. Every national writer ( What gives with the Pats homer Peter King "whining today about the refs???) Everyone else who watched the game. I guiess you have not turned on the TV or radio today and watched/heard any opinion on the matter......unless it was state sponsored radio WEEI.

But I know we just whine and cry because we lost. Of course.

I am watching NFL Primetime right now and they are showing hits on the QB that were not called, and other hits that were completely legal that were called. The whole rule is ridiculous, and the refs have no clue how to call it.

The BS rule is because of your little crying golden boy back there behind center, Lord forbid he would have to take a hit in a football game or even get touched for that matter. I would have laughed too if I was Brady and got that call after jumping up and down like a little girl so the flag would come out.
 
You are a well informed poster,but that is just ridiculous.

I have no doubt that if you were not a Pats fan and the shoe was on the other foot you would be "wining" and complaining" as well.

Everyone saw the calls. Everyone except fans of the Patriots.

Every beat writer. Every national writer ( What gives with the Pats homer Peter King "whining today about the refs???) Everyone else who watched the game. I guiess you have not turned on the TV or radio today and watched/heard any opinion on the matter......unless it was state sponsored radio WEEI.

But I know we just whine and cry because we lost. Of course.

I am watching NFL Primetime right now and they are showing hits on the QB that were not called, and other hits that were completely legal that were called. The whole rule is ridiculous, and the refs have no clue how to call it.

The BS rule is because of your little crying golden boy back there behind center, Lord forbid he would have to take a hit in a football game or even get touched for that matter. I would have laughed too if I was Brady and got that call after jumping up and down like a little girl so the flag would come out.

Where were you in week 1 when Wilfork was flagged for roughing the passer after he beat his man, came in with a shoulder to Trent Edwards upper thighs, wrapped him up and brought him down cleanly to the ground as Edwards was releasing the ball?

Or did you not hear about that cheap call on 3rd down that gave them a first down and ultimately led to a TD. And by the way it happened in their End Zone! But I guess you didn't hear about it because the Patriots didn't make a spectacle about it after the game. :rolleyes:

Your team whines more than any team I have ever seen. In 2007 they whined about the refs, when the hold on Watson was as clear as day. The only thing the Ravens should have been complaining about that night was that the Refs finally called a penalty on your secondary. The only reason you guys were in that game was because the Refs allowed you to hold, hit and damn near tackle our receivers all game long.

Get over it, your team lost because they couldn't convert on 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1. Flacco threw a pick in the red zone, they fumbled the opening kick off, your receiver dropped the ball on 4th and 4.

Not because of the refs!
 
The BS rule is because of your little crying golden boy back there behind center, Lord forbid he would have to take a hit in a football game or even get touched for that matter. I would have laughed too if I was Brady and got that call after jumping up and down like a little girl so the flag would come out.

... yeah, it couldn't last. A couple of the Ravens fans are cool, but it looks like a couple of you just can't handle a loss. Clear which category you fall into.

And if you think that King is a Pats' homer, then you haven't been paying attention for the past 3+ years. If you think Brady gets every call, then go watch the Bills/Pats and Jets/Pats games- you know, the games with the two teams that were actually able to get pressure. They hit Brady hard and often and weren't penalized for it because they were (novel concept, but here it comes...) legal hits. They didn't have to resort to diving at Brady's knees long after he threw the ball, which would have been a potentially career-ending injury if it wasn't so late that Brady had time to look down, see him coming, and jump out of the way. Don't blame the Pats for your team's inability to get a grip on itself and execute when it counts.

The Ravens are far and away the 'best' in the league at whining after the fact and blaming everyone but themselves for a loss, which is why I'm actually confident, as of today, that they won't come anywhere near a super bowl for at least another year. The Jets, Steelers, and Colts are all looking like much more legitimate threats, if this is how we can expect the Ravens to handle a loss. It seemed like Harbaugh had brought some accountability to the team, but looks like that wasn't the case, and now the Ravens have "will collapse under the first sign of adversity" written all over them.

If you want to know why it's getting covered this morning, it's because the Ravens talked about it. If a team gives the media something to write about, they'll write the hell out of it. There's no story angle that the media won't beat to death, and when a team actually gives them quotes, that just makes their job even easier (as opposed to the rest of the time, when they just make **** up or recycle the same Owens/Favre/Tomlinson storyline again).

If the Pats accused the Ravens of trying to infect them with the swine flu for a competitive advantage, that would be dominating the airwaves today. Still wouldn't make it true, which is why it's so dumb that you're claiming this as some kind of proof of legitimacy. Why don't you hear about the Patriots getting jobbed in week 1, even though they got screwed far more egregiously, to the point that the MNF announcers were openly calling it out? Because the Pats don't talk about it after the game. They don't let blame fall anywhere else. They didn't in the 2006 AFCCG, when the refs screwed up a game-changing PI call on Ellis Hobbs so badly that the league wrote him a letter of apology. That call essentially ended the Pats' season, but they still held themselves accountable for the loss. If they had made plays, it wouldn't have mattered, so it was their fault.

If the team doesn't hype it up after the fact, it just isn't a story. And the Pats, who have seen as many good calls and bad calls as anyone else, just don't talk about it. Belichick won't let them- he'll tell them what the ref's tendencies are and how to play to them, but knowing that it's 100% their responsibility to go out, execute, and win the game. If they don't, it falls on them- end of story. If you want to know what separates teams like the Pats from teams like the Ravens, that's a huge part of it.

Next time you hear the Pats, Steelers, Giants or Colts publicly dwell on the officiating after a loss will be the first. Coincidentally, they've won 7 of the last 8 Super Bowls. The Ravens, on the other hand, should spend less time worrying about whether correctly called rules should exist, and more time figuring out why they're surrendering 25 PPG to their three non-Browns (the worst team in the league) opponents.
 
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