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TMQ on Pats running game

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by SVN, Nov 27, 2007.

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  1. SVN

    SVN Rookie

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    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/071127

  2. holyredeemer

    holyredeemer Rookie

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    and we all know that the right side of our o-line is far from magnificent.

    People in the media are over reacting to our offensive gameplan against the eagles. I mean, how do these guys get paid money to be analysts? Doesn't everyone know by now that this coaching staff prepares for each game differently? We can pass it 60 times one week, then the next week go out there and pound the ball all night. BB and company are going to do whatever they believe is going to give us the best chance to win.

    I had to go to work last night and listen to my boss banter on and on for over 20 minutes about how the eagles have created a "blueprint" for playing against this team. That's ridiculous. After one game? The Colts almost beat us too. Where's their "blueprint"?
  3. Oswlek

    Oswlek Rookie

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    While NE's OL has certainly been magnificent over the entire season, I'm not sure that they lived up to those standards against Philly.
  4. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Rookie

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    Honestly, I worry about a high wind game or a game like Pitt-Fish.

    Yes, the Pats have the 11th best ypc avg. But how much of that is because of a great RB and o-line and how much of that is because nobody defends NE rush? Other teams def coordinators know that the Pats throw the ball a lot more than they run and also know the Pats get a lot more yards on passes than runs.

    So they triple team Moss and double team Welker, that doesn't leave many folks left to defend the rush.

    But I don't know if b/c of weather the long pass was eliminated if the Pats could move the ball well if the other team was actually focused on defending the rush. Getting a few yards rushing when the entire defense is focused on the pass is not the hallmark of a great rushing offense.
  5. Brownfan80

    Brownfan80 Rookie

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    I don't think they did. But then they were handicapped by the defense knowing what to attack over and over and over.

    Our pass protection is not going to be helped by defenses being able to tee off on play after play.

    Brady paid the price vs Philly, IMO.
  6. Oswlek

    Oswlek Rookie

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    Actually, if anything, the opposite is true. Because NE plays Faulk on passing downs regularly, when Maroney is in the game he runs on a higher percentage of plays than most RBs. Pay attention to just how often teams send a run blitzer when Maroney is on the field. Teams most certainly don't ignore the run when he is in there.
  7. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Rookie

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    I hope you are right, but you can't defend everything and it seem like most team are focusing on Moss and welker and not the run def.

    Only one way to find out bad weather game. We will find out then.
  8. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    Simply amazing. You all seriously think that Belichick works 20 hour days to get homefield advantage in the playoffs but hasn't considered the weather might be bad in Foxborough in January? If these things seem obvious to you with 15 seconds of thought, you think the Pats coaching staff will be caught by surprise when it counts the most?

    These are just battles. You can't win the war until February.
  9. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    Thank you for posting something SANE. The idea that somehow Bill Belichick doesn't know more than us, and more than the mediots, on what it takes to WIN in this league, and how good and/or important the running game is, is downright ABSURD. People need to wake up.
  10. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Rookie

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    I am sure he is aware of it. And I am sure he will have a game plan to cope with it. But, I am not sure if he has the personnel to execute an all ground game.

    Will the Pats rollover and die? - NO. But a very windy day against a very good team, that also has an excellent game plan could be the doom of the Patriots.

    And even if BB had concluded that the Pats would be better off in a dome in January than at the Razor, what is he going to do, tell the team to throw the game against the Colts? That would be insane.

    I expect that the Pats will come out with great game plans each game, but I am more worried about a high wind game then any other scenario. And the Pats are a great team, but not invincible.
  11. primetime

    primetime Rookie

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    Maybe because if Laurence Maroney carries the ball all of 100 times in the regular season, he'll be running on super-fresh legs in the playoffs?
  12. Oswlek

    Oswlek Rookie

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    But NE passed a lot to open the Buffalo game as well.

    I don't think it is that much of an issue. I just think they didn't play as well as they have most of the year.
  13. FrontSeven

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    Don't hold yer breath.
  14. RayClay

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    I can't believe this guy actually gets paid to write about sports.
  15. Fencer

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    Well-argued. And 11th isn't that great anyway.

    Although -- it they're higher in total yards than in YPC, then the percentage of their plays that are runs is HIGHER than the league norm. Weird ... I guess it comes from being ahead big so much. But then many of their runs are when teams know the run is coming, so that DEPRESSES their YPC.

    It's all connected.
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2007
  16. apricissimus

    apricissimus Rookie

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    You need some kind of running threat to keep the defense honest. Football 101. Even the Patriots offense isn't good enough to throw on every down.
  17. bbabin

    bbabin Rookie

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    Except we did that and won. Maybe our offense is good enough for that. I don't really understand the complaints about our lack of running. In what football tome does it say that there must be a balance between running and passing. I understand that running keeps defenses honest, but we ran very few times in the first half, and scored on all three possessions.
  18. VJCPatriot

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    Barely. Unless you define a 3 point win as complete domination.
    A balanced attack keeps the defense honest.
    I think the Pats will try to go back to a more balanced attack against Baltimore.
    The only question is can Maroney step up and answer the call?
  19. Denzera

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    Just for grins, TMQ's note about needing a magnificent offensive line was a follow-up to the immediately preceding paragraph, also splooging about New England:

  20. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Rookie

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    Well, that part doesn't naturally follow because the Pats have a total of more offensive plays than any other team. So above avg number of total running plays doesn't automatically translate into a higher than league norm of the Pats plays being run vs. pass.

    So I did some number crunching, 55% of all plays are passing plays. 18th highest in the league so slightly less than avg. The most was the Lions who throw 64% of the time, the least Steelers 44%.

    I would dispute you claim that teams know the run is coming when we are up. See multiple discussions on "running up the score" the Pat continue to throw the ball when they are up by a large lead.
  21. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

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    Here's some stats he forgot to mention
    **28.9% of Patriot rushes get first downs- 1st in the league
    ** Pats have 96 rushing first downs- 1st in the league
    **Pats have 12 rushing TDs- 3rd in the league
    ** Pats have only rushing fumbles- 3rd in league
    **Pats average 30.2 rushing attempts per game- 8th in league
  22. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This is my opinion on this.

    #1 I have always believed (and from what I have seen believe BB shares this opinion) that the way to build an offensive gameplan goes something like this:

    1) Determine where you have the largest mismatch. Simplistically passing or running.
    2) Create a game plan that maximizes your ability to exploit that mismatch.
    3) If the mismatch is in the passing game, you need to run the ball in order to be passing against a defense that is not overcompensating to cover up that mismatch. For example, if my advantage is throwing the ball, and I pass every play, I will face nickel and dime all day, and the corners will get help. If I run enough, I will throw against a base D, and carve it up.
    4) The gameplan is not designed for every single play to be the best play I can run. It is designed to create scoring opportunities by making them defend their biggest weakness without overcompensating.
    5) Throughout the game, each play I call has its impact on the rest of the plays I am going to call under consideration.

    The idea is that you aren't going to score on every drive. It will be much more difficult to score if you allow the other team to cover up their weaknesses, so I have to attack their strengths in order to expose their weaknesses.

    I think that this year BB has seen evidence to suggest that it doesnt really matter what the other team does, when we throw the ball we are nearly unstoppable.
    If that is the case, the strategy changes, and you call the play you like best regardless of what the defense is going to do. In other words, no matter how they defend our passing game, we still have a huge mismatch, so their is no need to do anything else to set up the exploitation.

    I tend to think that this thought process is about 75% correct. There are many teams that we could throw on every single down against and score 50 points. There are others that we could throw on every down and score 35, but they are smart enough to scheme a way to make it difficult.
    IMO, in the games where we really cant be stopped, why not throw it 50-60 times, but when we face defenses that are WELL COACHED we should be more balanced, because the good coaching puts a little balance into our huge mismatch in talent in the passing game.
  23. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Unfortunately though, thats not the way defense works.
    Wouldn't it be great if teams took 5 players and told them to cover Moss and Welker and take a nap if its a run?
    The reality is that those guys who are doubling (and it really is very rarely a double team but a corner with deep safety help in a zone) are coming from a position on the field where they are playing run support, then drop into coverage if its a pass.
    The truth is our run game is HINDERED by our scheme, because we almost never have a FB on the field, play 1 TE, and 3 WRs. We are much, much more susceptible to run blitzes, and DBs coming up to make plays at or near the los than if we had a FB in the game and/or 2 TEs. Without a lead blocker one missed block up front creates a loss. With a lead blocker, you account for one missed block, or the extra block to spring them.

    How many run oriented teams come out with no FB and 3 wides to make their running game go? NONE.
  24. sebman2112

    sebman2112 Rookie

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    There are times when it's been obvious the Patriots were going to run though. Look at the Eagles game, it was pretty obvious Maroney was going to run before the snap each time he got the ball, and the Eagles had their run blitz in effect. If the Patriots could take away at least some of their predictability their rushing attack and their passing attack (to a slight extent) would be even tougher to control.
  25. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    5 OL that are at least capable run blockers
    2 mountainous TEs (Brady and O'Callaghan)
    1 blocking FB
    1 RB (plus quicker or bigger backups as needed)
    1 WR that you have to double-cover even in a hurricane
    1 QB uniquely qualified to throw in wind/precipitation

    What are the Pats missing?

    If the Pats are forced to run exclusively because of insanely high winds, what would the opposing gameplan be that would qualify as "excellent"? I suppose the winds could stop when the opposition has the ball, but I doubt God hates the Pats that much.

    I agree that Belichick would not tell the Pats to lose to Indy so that they could play in the dome in January to avoid the New England weather. Roger that.

    Assuming the conditions are the same for both teams, I expect the Pats to be better suited (5th in run defense, 7th in run offense) to win than:

    1) Indy - Outdoors? Can't pass? Puhleeze
    2) Pitt - 3 points at home in the rain against the winless Fins. Nuff said.
    3) SD - Seems it never rains in Southern California...
    4) JAX - Florida team
    5) Cleveland - 28th in run defense, 8th in run offense
    6) Denver - 29th in run defense, 16th in run offense

    Who is better suited to win in adverse winter conditions in Foxborough than the Pats? The Pats aren't invincible, but they certainly aren't more vulnerable on the frozen Razor field turf.
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