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Tired of the "Offense did enough to win this game and the defense blew it" spin

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Rob0729, Nov 7, 2011.

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  1. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't get how people have turned on the defense and made excuses for the offense with the spin that the offense did enough to win the game since they gave the defense a lead with a little over 1:30 left in the game and the defense blew it. The fact of the matter is that the defense kept this game close so the offense could bring them back in the game in a position to win while the offense played like crap for most of the game. Here are some facts to prove this point:

    1.) This was the first game all year that any game went into halftime 0-0. That was a testament to the defense and damnation on the offense and special teams.

    2.) The only points that were scored in 3 1/3 quarters by the Giants were off of Patriots turnovers. The only TD the Giants got in that time was a TEN YARD DRIVE because the Pats offense gave up a strip sack on the Pats' ten yard line.

    3.) Prior to the Pats scoring their first points, the Pats' offense had 8 drives in which resulted in 4 punts, 2 interceptions, one strip sack, and a missed field goal. The Pats had two drives for negative yards, one drive for 8 yards, and only two drives over 50 yards. Even the first score by the Pats was a drive that went 19 yards and resulted in a field goal.

    4.) Every drive the Giants had in the first half resulted in a punt. Their longest drive was 32 yards. The only drive they crossed the 50 yard line in the first half was a drive that started on their 49 yard line and ended on the Pats' 45 (a six yard drive).

    5.) The only drives that the Giants had over 57 yards the entire game were the final two.

    Yes, the defense fell apart in the end especially since they lost Spikes, Guyton, and Barrett on or before those drives (which definitely hurt the defense since White and Brown are definite downgrades) and two PI penalties. But if the Pats' offense doesn't turnover the ball and Gostowski doesn't miss the field goal, the Pats win this game by 1-2 TDs. Brady's first INT cost the Pats at least 3 points. The strip sack on Brady was going to guarantee the Giants 3 points (they got seven on a ten yard drive).

    If you ignore the first three quarters, you can put the blame clearly on the defense. But watching the first three quarters, it is clearly more on the offense and special teams. The offense didn't score until 5:29 minutes left in the third quarter. The offense's screw up was the reason why the Giants score a TD before that.
  2. DefenseRules

    DefenseRules Rookie

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    B O'Brien is getting a free pass. He is not putting these guys in a position to succeed.
    Don't get me started on Special Teams. The kick coverage was better this week, but the kick returns flat out SUCK!
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2011
  3. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I blame Brady far more for yesterday than Bill O'Brien. Brady made two stupid INT passes and missed several wide open receivers yesterday.
  4. Sicilian

    Sicilian Rookie

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    I'm in 100% agreement. It's like I said in a thread this past week, this defense is good enough (not good, but good enough) when the offense is playing efficient, getting first downs, and not going three and out. If this defense doesn't get a chance to breathe or make adjustments because the offense just went three and out or turned the ball over quickly, this defense isn't good enough to overcome the fatigue factor.

    When you look at THIS game in particular, you couldn't have asked for a better defensive effort. By the time the last few drives were happening (for either team) the defenses were gassed. You just couldn't expect them to continue the shutout all game, and it caught up with them.

    Not only that, but the defense looked nastier than I remember in any game this year so far. They were hitting hard, wrapping up tackles, getting push up front for the most part. It looked like they were playing for (and with) some pride, and it's a shame that the offense couldn't muster anything early on to build off of that. To me, the offense wasted our best defensive effort of the season to date.

    We're at the halfway point, and there are two ways this defense can go now. They can look back on this, build on it, and get better because they know they can play this way. Or they can get demoralized because it went to waste. Whichever way that locker room turns will determine the rest of our season.
  5. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Rookie

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    brady is not on his game right now..........hope he comes around

    the defense played well enough to win although the pass rush is still piss poor
  6. Sicilian

    Sicilian Rookie

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    I can't remember the last time we took a kick return past the 30 (with the exception of the one this week that the Giants had to kick from their own 20). This is an area that needs a shakeup, but I think we're going to have to wait until the offseason for it unfortunately. We just don't have any personnel on this team that is explosive enough to make a difference.

    Slater has the speed, but has never had the vision. Edelman has the vision, but not the speed. Too bad we can't combine them :p

    Aside from the two interceptions, he also seemed to be forcing it into tighter windows than seemed necessary. I think the pass rush got in his head a bit, as he felt he needed to unload a little quicker than he actually had to at times.

    I will fault O'Brien for not calling more runs. When your QB is struggling and the D-Line is getting to him, you need to mix it up to open up more options. Not sure it would have made a difference really, but I would have liked to see more runs, especially with the D playing so well early on.
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2011
  7. Nunchucks

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    Why do the Patriots refuse to run the ball?
  8. letekro

    letekro Rookie

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    Brady playing poorly. Need to hit a few deep passes to open things up. This means Ocho or Price. Need to give the more explosive backs--Ridley and Vereen- the lion share of the carries. Not rocket science.
  9. dhamz

    dhamz Rookie

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    I'm tired of the weekly posts about which side of the ball is more to blame for a loss. They are always selective in over looking the good done by the side they are blaming and equally selective in discounting the bad of the side of the ball they are absolving of blame. It is the old "you can't put anything on my defense" BS Ray Lewis spews every time the Ravens get beat.

    Football being the ultimate team game, there is almost never a loss that doesn't fall on the entire team and yesterday was no different. The offense did not play well for much of the game yesterday. They also scored the last 4 times they touched the ball and gave the team the lead with less than 2 minutes to go. The defense was solid much of the day. They also gave up 80 and 85 yards TD drives in the 4th quarter. The special teams - missing a chip shot FG and fumbling - had a bad day.

    There seems to be more than enough blame to go around.
  10. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    OK...How about the Whole team Sucked and played poorly in All phases of the game. Which is the truth
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2011
  11. Triumph

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    The play calling sucked. Run the damn ball with BJGE.

    BJGE was gashing the Giants D. They pull him out. Ridley comes in, gains a few yards. They pull him out. Woody comes in, is nearly broken in two. Out he goes. BJGE comes back.

    The multiple personality running attack.
  12. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    I agree....... This defense is exactly what we thought it was. It's gonna give up 20-24 points per game..... make a few plays here and there, but in the end, a team will be able to score on it at the end of a game.

    That's exactly what we got from it yesterday. I actually don't think they played half bad yesterday, considering the sh!tty position the offense was continually putting them in.

    I actually was at the game and our offense was probably MORE pathetic then you saw on TV. There were holes all over the Giants D that we could have (and should have) exploited. 0 points in the 1sr half. It's been since 2006 since we've done that.

    I love Brady and the offense as much as the next, but they have played like aZZ for 2 weeks straight now.

    While we're on it...... I'm pretty tired of the Ocho-hate on here too. While I'm not too much of a fan at this point, but if we want this guy to be productive, Brady is gonna have to throw him 1-2 catchable balls. He was getting open yesterday and Brady missed him on every ball.
  13. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Good point, usually a RB needs reps to get into the flow of the game. In the first place they haven't run the ball much, and when they do they just stop with no rhyme or reason.

    And a running back needs multiple reps to get into the flow of the game. To give The Law, Riddly, or Woody one or two carries and then take them out doesn't allow for getting into the flow.

    Their consistently inconsistent, this has been going on long enough that i cant just blame BOB. Bob has a boss and if he didn't like the game BOB was calling he'd ask BOB to change his approach.
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2011
  14. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The whole team didn't suck in all phases of the game. The defense was great for 3 1/3 quarters. The offense was great for a quarter and a 1/3. To say that is to diminish was the defense did for most of the game.
  15. Snake Eyes

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    - People are frustrated at the defense because they've had a history of melting down at critical times late in the game, this has been the case for YEARS.

    - The offense is very one dimensional, it's the short-intermediate pass, we don't have a deep threat and we don't have a running game.
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2011
  16. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    Oh no....... We have a running game. We're just not using it. BJGE was actually running pretty well yesterday.... He just wasn't given enough carries to really get going. The G-men were/are weak on the run, and we did NOTHING to exploit that.
  17. MoLewisrocks

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    The defense should have done what it did for 4 quarters against a Giants offense missing it's #1 WR and #1RB and starting center and starting TE...

    The offense hasn't performed well in weeks, it is in fact performing worse by the week. The only bright spots are Brady and Welker. The OL and Brady by association is getting abused, the young TE's are stuggling in coverage and developing a case of the yips as a result, we can't run the ball consistently because the run blocking is as sketchy as the pass blocking, Welker is the only guy who fights to get open and catch the damn ball consistently, Ocho can't function in a offense that requires instinctive reads and consistent effort and Price can't get on the field even when he outpractices him because he's apparently another of the fragile youngsters we seem to collect.

    This was 42 deja vu, and while this offense struggled once again Brady managed to claw them to a lead with less than 2 minutes to play needing a TD to do it because the PK isn't terribly consistent at any distance this season. Then the defense folded... That is total lack of complimentary football, which is what it takes to win consistently in this league. They are actually fairly stiff inside the redzone most of the time except when they shoot themselves in the foot as they did yesterday on the last 3rd down. But the Giants only had the opportunity to win that game because this defense couldn't make one play outside the redzone when the game was on the line. Deja vu all over again...

    This team needs to be able to win a game when the offense can only muster 20...
  18. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Rookie

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    its all on the offense......

    0-0 start of the 2nd half.....1st 2 drives, one first down, 2 turnovers.....10 points for the giants......

    the pats look like they're on quaaludes
  19. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This team probably could have won the game yesterday with the offense getting 20 points if the offense didn't get the 20 points all in the final third of the game. This is definitely a case of not how many points the offense scored, but how they scored them. If the Pats offense scored a TD early and only 13 in the second half, I think the Pats win this game. The problem was the Pats offense was virtually non-existent the first 40 minutes and consistently put the defense in bad positions during that time which the defense overcame for the most part.

    All you have to do is look at the Packers/Chargers game. The Chargers' offense scored 38 points. That should be enough for the defense to overcome, but when Rivers throws three picks, two returned for TDs; the defense cannot overcome that.
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2011
  20. Dagg

    Dagg Rookie

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    Poor execution, offense seems to be un motivated general fire just wasnt there until late, does anyone care anymore? Effort has been poor last few weeks.
  21. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You can repeat this as many times as you want. It won't make it any more true.

  22. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The defense played a great game. It simply couldn't make up for an offense that was shut out for almost the entire game and turned the ball over four times. The offense needed to play well enough to give away the ball only once or twice. That isn't much to ask from what used to be the #1 or #2 offense in football. After all, it was #1 last year and added Waters, Ridley and Ochocinco.

  23. neuronet

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    This is just wrong.

    The score, at the end of the half, was 0-0.

    That means our defense did a perfect job, and our offense was perfectly awful.

    This pattern continued, except for one drive in the fourth quarter. The Offense has to give the defense a better chance. There are no two ways about it.
  24. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    1) The Giants were missing Bradshaw and Nicks, aka two of their three best players on offense. Let's not pretend that this was a particularly good offense that the Pats were playing against, because it wasn't, due to injury.

    2) The defense still gave up two touchdowns in the last six minutes.

    3) However bad you think the offense played, they put up 20 points. Holding a below-average offense (which is what the Giants were with the aforementioned injuries) under 30 points is not an accomplishment.

    If you think that that performance was 'fine', given those three factors, then you are fine with the Pats never winning another Super Bowl under Brady and Belichick. Because, with defense like that, they absolutely won't.
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2011
  25. RIpats88

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    and lets not forget the defenses redzone int. after edelman fumbled the kick return.

    the thing is, this is not a defense that can win you games for all 4 quarters...it did what it was designed to do yesterday. get off the field and force some 3 and outs, stay strong in the redzone.

    but the other side is that the offense needs to make the most of its opportunities and not turnover the ball....we turned over the ball 4 times!! and that puts alot more pressure on our defense. gostkowski doesnt miss that field goal, it might be a different game

    also, brady wasnt brady yesterday...making bad decisions and missing wide open receivers. and you can imagine this is eating at him just as much as it is us and he will make the adjustments and return to the QB he is
  26. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    And yet everyone was predicting that the Giants would score over 30 points. People are overstating the losses.

    People are overstating these losses. I mean the Texans scored 30 points yesterday without Andre Johnson. In fact, they scored 41 points vs. Tennessee without him. And he is far better than Nicks. Bradshaw had nothing to do with how the Pats defense held Manning to an under 50% completion percentage for most of the game.

    Yes, that was bad, but if the offense did their job and didn't consistently ask the defense to bail them out for most of the game, those two TD drives probably never happen. Also, one of those TD drives came off a PI that Arrington had great coverage and had no way to avoid the PI and the PI was questionable/ticky-tack.

    The Giants are a well above average offense. You have no idea what kind of offense they are without Nick and Bradshaw other than your opinion. If Bradshaw played a 16 game season, he was on pace for 1,005 yards and 11 rushing TDs. He is an average back, just their best back. Nicks was on pace for 1300 yards though, but Victor Cruz is on pace for 1176 yards and Jake Ballard is on pace for 800 yards. Ballard has 7 more receiving TDs than the rest of the team combined. Let's not act like the Giants without Nick and Bradshaw is the Colts without Eli's brother.

    Also, the Giants scored 7 of their 24 points on a 10 yard TD drive. Most defenses cannot stop the opposing team from scoring at least 3 when the drive starts on the defense's ten yard line.

    Also, when the Pats gave the Giants offense the short field far too many times because of turnovers and poor special teams, it is quite an accomplishment by the defense that they only gave up 10 points for the first 40 minutes.


    Hyperbolize much. Jeez, I swear people have gone off the deep end.
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2011
  27. BradyFTW!

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    Of course it did, because Brandon Jacobs is terrible.

    The offense isn't always going to score 30 points. It's just not going to happen. Sometimes they'll only muster 20, and if they can do that and still take the lead twice late in the fourth quarter, then the defense has to be able to make one of those stops. It just has to.

    And FWIW, I don't think that it was a systemic, defense-wide failure yesterday. I place the blame squarely on the safeties. They killed us on those last two drives, culminating in Sergio Brown committing one of the dumbest penalties I've seen in a long time. Tracy White should probably get some blame here too, but like Eric Alexander in the 2006 AFCCG, I just don't get why either of these guys is on the field at all taking meaningful defensive snaps, let alone pivotal ones at the end of the 4th quarter. White should be ST-only, period.

    You're accusing me of hyperbole? I said that the Giants, without their top RB and top WR, have a below-average offense, and to you that means they're an 0-8 caliber team? If that's what you have to resort to to make your case, then it's pretty clear that you've gone off the deep end.
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2011
  28. Dutchmaster617

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    One thing to say defending the defense though. The Pats struggled to drive, then settled for a missed FG, third quarter get the ball and throw an INT, get the ball back scoreless game STILL and another failed drive, now it is 0-3 after three straight pathetic drives, what do they do? Brady fumbles it away, now it is 0-10 after 4 straight jokes of a drive and now is when Brady decides to play football.

    You can definitely respect the offense being blamed, ignoring the entire first 29 minutes or so the offense still managed to throw away 4 straight drives, that is just asking for trouble. No way you can be happy with the offense, even if they came back they still needed this loss, now we can end the 'weapons' and '30 ppg' talk.
  29. Rob0729

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    First, the Giants were going to pass the ball no matter what because of the team they were playing. So Bradshaw was not going to be a big part of the Giants' gameplan whether he played or not. So he was not a big factor.

    Second, even though Jacobs sucks, Bradshaw is just average. He is on pace for under a 1000 yards (would have been a 1000 if he played yesterday and kept his average). He is better than Jacobs, but the Giants are a pass first team this year which means he would have a minimal impact.



    Sorry, but the Pats' offense turned over the ball 4 times and couldn't stay on the field. That tires out a defense. If the offense scored 20 points and they had several long drives early in the game and didn't keep on putting the defense in position to bail out their arses, they might have made a stop late in the game.

    This Patriots offense was the Colts without Manning for 40 minutes and the defense kept the Pats in the game until Brady actually got his head in the game. Without the Pats' defense stepping up and keeping this a game while the offense struggled, the Giants easily could have scored 30-40 points yesterday.


    Unless they change the rules to let Spikes play in a wheelchair, White had to play since both Spikes and Guyton were injured and Fletcher didn't even dress because of injuries. Brown had to play because Barrett (who played fairly well yesterday) was also injured. How can you blame them for playing players when they had a rash of injuries by the last drive.




    I did hyperbolize there, but you have no evidence that the Giants are a below average team without Nick and Bradshaw. They are currently the 6th ranked passing offense and the 29th ranked rushing offense. So they were not a great rushing offense with Bradshaw there. So you are over-emphasizing his impact. I pointed out that Cruz is on pace to be about a 1,200 yard receiver and Ballard leads the league in TD for a TE and on pace for 800 yards. They still have a pretty good offense even without those two.
  30. Theplayer

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    Bottom line is that with the game on the line, the offense drove down the field for what should have been the winning TD. The defense on the other hand failed with the game on the line.

    I really don't care how the D played for 3 quarters, I want their defense to be able to make a stop when it matters most. Pats defense hasn't been able to do this for 3-4 years now.
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