Time to fish or cut bait with Chad Ochocinco

[DaBruinz]

I dont see Ochocinco making the roster.

pats have welker, lloyd, gaffney, branch, even Stallworth who all know the pat's system and have a rapport with brady.

Yes, Stallworth has such a great rapport with Brady that he got, essentially, benched for the post season during his last time with the team and was jettisoned at the earliest possible convenience once that season was over.

 

[patsfan13]

Whatever his failures so far he has been a good citizen here, never late for practice, no rumors of not working hard, no complaints about playing time ect.

I don't care about 1 play in an OTA session, even though I don't see him cracking the WR roster this year.

 

[RayClay]

Yes, Stallworth has such a great rapport with Brady that he got, essentially, benched for the post season during his last time with the team and was jettisoned at the earliest possible convenience once that season was over.

Yet he had triple the production of oucho sharing the ball with Moss and Gaffney.

We had one WR and he was dragging ass, yet Orca still couldn't make more than 15 catches.

I'm sure there are tons more excuses.

 

[Avenger]

Chad has played in a completely different offensive system during his career and didn't rely on reading the defense, 2011 was like another rookie year for him.

Take a look at his first two years with the Bengals:
2001: 12 games played, 3 games started, 28 receptions, 329 yards, 1 TD
2002: 16 games played, 14 games started, 69 receptions, 1,166 yards, 5 TDs

Now look at his first two years with the Patriots:
2011: 15 games played, 3 games started, 15 receptions, 276 yards, 1 TD
2012: To be determined

 

[supafly]

Yes, Stallworth has such a great rapport with Brady that he got, essentially, benched for the post season during his last time with the team and was jettisoned at the earliest possible convenience once that season was over.

Although your point is duly noted, his roster bonus and potential 2008 salary were certainly big factors in the decision too.

I'm not sure why his salary was structured that way, but I assume that the team felt that he was a one-year rental all along.

I'll agree that C.Johnson has just as good of a shot as D.Stallwoth this season to make the 53 though, but he'd better pick up the offense very quickly.

 

[RayClay]

Chad has played in a completely different offensive system during his career and didn't rely on reading the defense, 2011 was like another rookie year for him.

Take a look at his first two years with the Bengals:
2001: 12 games played, 3 games started, 28 receptions, 329 yards, 1 TD
2002: 16 games played, 14 games started, 69 receptions, 1,166 yards, 5 TDs

Now look at his first two years with the Patriots:
2011: 15 games played, 3 games started, 15 receptions, 276 yards, 1 TD
2012: To be determined

He's 34 years old, he's hardly a rookie.

 

[Triumph]

2 more OTAs plus a minicamp plus. 2 full months (May 27-July 27) to apply things wouldn't help? Plus a full month+ of training camp and preseason games?

He is a dim bulb. Think a funny Donald Hayes,

No amount of wattage will make him burn brighter.

 

[Joker]

you keep coming up with gems like "oucho" and pretty soon they be calling you Ray Clayker...heh

 

[Fencer]

A receiver is supposed to do three things:

• Go where he's supposed to go. This is largely mental, but may also be an issue of physically beating the press.
• Catch the ball once he gets there. This is the skill in which they all need to far surpass ordinary mortals.
• Shed defenders along the way. This can be a matter of out-running them (least relevant on the Pats), out-jumping them (sort of what a tall TE does, sort of what Lloyd does), blocking them off physically (what a big TE does), being lightning-quick in cuts (famously important on the Pats), or being Randy Moss.

I don't see Ochocinco as being likely to meet those criteria well enough to beat out the other roster candidates.

 

[Ive_Killed_People]

Why are we still kicking him when he's down? BB will decide his fate,he's done nothing to deserve all this animus.

 

[supafly]

A receiver is supposed to do three things:

• Go where he's supposed to go. This is largely mental, but may also be an issue of physically beating the press.
• Catch the ball once he gets there. This is the skill in which they all need to far surpass ordinary mortals.
• Shed defenders along the way. This can be a matter of out-running them (least relevant on the Pats), out-jumping them (sort of what a tall TE does, sort of what Lloyd does), blocking them off physically (what a big TE does), being lightning-quick in cuts (famously important on the Pats), or being Randy Moss.

I don't see Ochocinco as being likely to meet those criteria well enough to beat out the other roster candidates.

I think that you make some great points, and on some level I tend to agree with you.

However (to play Devil's advocate--don't ask me why ) I also think that the competition isn't exactly great against C.Johnson, and the overall likely number of WR is still yet to be determined.

There also seems to be some sense of mystique and unanswered questions around Johnson, such as his restructure of giving up 2/3rds of his salary for the chance to make the squad, the thinking that BB may be giving him more than enough chances to make the team, and any level of knowledge that he may already have. Even though it does not seem to be much to us fans, Belichick may have a different viewpoint.

I think that you certainly may be more closer to right than wrong, and that there is certainly much potential for Johnson to be cut in TC; but I also think that he is (somehow) still the front-runner over possible guys like Gonzalez, Ebert, and even maybe Stallworth.

It will obviously come down to whether or not he shows enough in the next 2-3 months to earn a spot, that can't be debated, but I would question the fact that so many already have him written off.

As weird as it does seem, Belichick is obviously giving him every possible shot to make the roster. Whether or not he can do that remains to be seen, and the odds are probably against him, but personally I am not going to write him off just yet.

Now if Ebert, Stallworth (who has not had the most glowing of initial reviews, even though they are early on), or Gonzalez show something, then I think we can put the final nail in the coffin.

Regardless, I do respect your opinion, and you very well could be right. I am just giving some random thoughts about the situation. As of now, I haven't seen enough (or anything, really) from his so-called competition to write him off.

Besides the general feeling of the forum, all we seem to have is an off-sides play and a punishment lap.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Yes, Stallworth has such a great rapport with Brady that he got, essentially, benched for the post season during his last time with the team and was jettisoned at the earliest possible convenience once that season was over.

Actually that's not true though. Donte played in all 3 post season games and outperformed Gaffney.

Beyond that, Donte got replaced after one season because a less expensive option existed who produced fewer yards and receptions but more TD's half way through his second season here at a less than a quarter of the cost and they had a window in February to avoid paying him a $6M option bonus and $11M in total in 2008. Gaffney was a far better value option because they could extend him a week later for $2M, but that kind of scenario is something that didn't exist this time around with Chad, whom they'd already sunk $6M into, after turning in a season a third as productive as Stallworth's lone $3.6M season here with Moss and Welker consuming the lions share of targets. If it had he'd have just as likely been gone.

And don't say he could have restructured as Chad did or if they wanted him they could have persued a restructure. Chad had no viable options while Donte had Mangini waving a $35M deal at him. Stallworth was signed to a prove it deal here to be something he wasn't going to have a shot to be once they were able to trade for Moss.

 

[Avenger]

He's 34 years old, he's hardly a rookie.

Have you ever had to change companies? To one that did things completely differently than your old one? Did you do just as well right away or were you slow to regain your old efficiency. It's like a guy who works for a factory for 20 years, gets laid off and starts working at Home Depot as a cashier.

 

[patsfan13]

Why are we still kicking him when he's down? BB will decide his fate,he's done nothing to deserve all this animus.

Exactly!

Why the anger with Ocho? He seems to be giving it his best effort and has been behaving himself. If he doesn't make it so be it nothing to get crazy about.

As to his salary well it was a fit for a guy who had been an all pro multiple times. Not many here anticipated that he would have difficulty picking up the system. I learned a lesson from his difficulty picking up the system, which is why I wanted Lloyd over all the other FA WR's this year.

Let the guy compete and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[RayClay]

Have you ever had to change companies? To one that did things completely differently than your old one? Did you do just as well right away or were you slow to regain your old efficiency. It's like a guy who works for a factory for 20 years, gets laid off and starts working at Home Depot as a cashier.

Of course I have. Usually I put all distractions aside until I get over the hump. I get embarrassed when i don't know what I'm doing and look like a fool.

Also, I've never been paid 6 million dollars while still not knowing the basics of where to line up a year later.

I also wasn't trying to film a reality show while trying to learn first year basics in my second year, make youtubes every time something trivial happens to me, nor do I tweet over 30,000 times during my first year of work (actually I wouldn't do that in a lifetime, i think it's silly).

I'm sure if we went on we'd find some common ground and I'd like to start with the six million, if possible.

 

[Deus Irae]

Of course I have. Usually I put all distractions aside until I get over the hump. I get embarrassed when i don't know what I'm doing and look like a fool.

Also, I've never been paid 6 million dollars while still not knowing the basics of where to line up a year later.

I also wasn't trying to film a reality show while trying to learn first year basics in my second year, make youtubes every time something trivial happens to me, nor do I tweet over 30,000 times during my first year of work (actually I wouldn't do that in a lifetime, i think it's silly).

I'm sure if we went on we'd find some common ground and I'd like to start with the six million, if possible.

If we're going to talk about the play where he reportedly lined up wrong, let's talk about it. Was is a new play from McDaniels? Was it a play from last year that Johnson was never a part of? What was the confusion? Is it a play where Johnson has run it from another WR position the entire time and was being asked to change that? Did Johnson get his positioning correct for every other play, and was this just a simple error, or was this still an issue throughout the OTA?

If we don't know the answers to such questions, maybe we could just wait for more than an unimportant report of an error that happens with some frequency during early offseason drill work.

 

[BlueThunder]

A simple error turns into an incompletion or INT if he doesn't run the right route. If he doesn't line up properly, how will TB trust him to run the correct route???

It's still the same old same old with Ocho....

No wonder TB didn't look his way alot last year...he was the last read probably with Tom thinking...Where is Ocho gonna be now.

Let's hope it was only a one time thing and doesn't keep popping up in practice....or else Ocho Cinco's new name will be Chad Gonesoon.

 

[Deus Irae]

A simple error turns into an incompletion or INT if he doesn't run the right route. If he doesn't line up properly, how will TB trust him to run the correct route???

What was the final score of the game they lost last week?

It's still the same old same old with Ocho....

You don't know whether this is true or not. You know only of what happened in a single OTA, which is basically nothing.

No wonder TB didn't look his way alot last year...he was the last read probably with Tom thinking...Where is Ocho gonna be now.

This could well be true. Perhaps Brady or the coaches could shed some light on this.

Let's hope it was only a one time thing and doesn't keep popping up in practice....or else Ocho Cinco's new name will be Chad Gonesoon.

If he's gone, he's gone. I doubt it'll be because of what happened on one OTA day in May, though.

 

[RayClay]

If we're going to talk about the play where he reportedly lined up wrong, let's talk about it. Was is a new play from McDaniels? Was it a play from last year that Johnson was never a part of? What was the confusion? Is it a play where Johnson has run it from another WR position the entire time and was being asked to change that? Did Johnson get his positioning correct for every other play, and was this just a simple error, or was this still an issue throughout the OTA?

If we don't know the answers to such questions, maybe we could just wait for more than an unimportant report of an error that happens with some frequency during early offseason drill work.

He was lining up wrong and making wrong decisions last year. I really don't want to talk about it. We supposedly want players that are concentrating 100% on football, at least during the season. He is the antithesis of that player.

Since you think it matters, I've wanted him gone a long time, so it doesn't to me.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

If he's gone, he's gone. I doubt it'll be because of what happened on one OTA day in May, though.

No, it will be about a lot more (or less) than that having happened (or not happened) over the course of a full season plus. But how you perform in these OTA's does matter, especially as it relates to the QB and WR's building rapore and if you appear to be making the same mental mistakes you made the previous season. Mental errors - not to mention repetitive ones - are after all one of coaches personal bugaboos.